First Distillation - Went Good , but a few questions

[PoPo VanWinkle]

Got a small (I'm guessing 5 gallons totally full) copper pot still for Christmas. I can put about 3 gallons in it and still have room to spare. Ran 5 gallons wash last night , in 2 separate runs (from a mash of 5 lbs corm meal - cooked with amalyase, 5 lbs white sugar , yeast nutrient and EC1118 yeast). If I did it right, my predicted ABV in wash was ~ 13 %.
I realize that temps are not to be used as a gauge for pot stills ( according to what I read here), but since this was my first run, I had nothing else to go by. My first stripping run produced @ 50% ABV distillate, that was very nice (a little yeast, corn and apple notes). I ran about 2.5 hours until the ABV dropped to 20 % and it still tasted and tested on the spoon, nice. The second run was slower . I threw the initial pint, containing the foreshots ( forgot to discard and kept it with first pint of heads) back in this wash and distilled for about 3 hours ( discarding ~175 ml of heads this time ! ) and had to get some sleep, so I stopped distillation . I have almost 4.5 pints of good low wines that probable average ~ 45% ABV.
My wife and I love the taste of this run so I may not try and do a stripping run in the future.

Questions>
1) Can you run a pot still to hot ?
My second run was over 200 F (first run under 200 F) and it was nice drip but I never got a pencil stream from either run. I am in a little doubt as to the accuracy of this thermometer, but its all I got.
2) Is my production of low wines "about right"? And how long would you expect a 3 gallon pot still at 13 % ABV to have to run before your into the tails . To be honest , the end of the run at ~20 % ABV still tasted good. Maybe I didn't go far enough. Maybe my "taster" isnt too refined yet , but the wife liked it too !
I'm doing this for fun and want to make a quality product.
Its an interesting hobby, and I already have a rye mash and a cornflakes/brown sugar mash fermenting.
This forum is awesome and it really helped me to get ready for the first run.
Thanks for any feedback !

[Danespirit]

Congrats to your first run..
Yes, you can run it too hot. One thing that can happen is scorching when you run a thick mash. Second thing is lack of cooling...if you don't have the adequate cooling, you'll loose product.
Are you running a traditional worm and flake stand?
You get what you get...anyhow your amount of low wines seems in the ballpark.
The run time depends on how much heat you throw at it, how much you have in there and...finally how much alcohol there is in your charge.
Don't expect a 100% yield. The parent site has some calculators, they are pretty accurate...but again..don't expect 100%.
If you run down to 20% ABV, it's fine. There ain't much more left in there to justify the time and energy used.
Collect enough low wines to do a spirit run, I bet you and your wife will like it even more after a second run (don't forget to take the foreshots and make cuts).

[PoPo VanWinkle]

Danespirit- Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, traditional Worm and Flake . I really made efforts to keep that bad boy cool during distillation. The product came out cooler that skin temp : in other words- not hot to touch , actually on the cool side . Glad to know that my low wines seem "about right". I think I can see that the small size of my still will be a "rate limiting factor !
I took pains to make sure my wash was cleaned up , and I had no scorching or and "junk " on the bottom of my pot, so that was good. I rapidly got on two new fermentation's, because the wife was pleased with the result, so things are moving in the right direction.

[Bigbob]

PoPoVanWinkle, I think I have the same still as you. It is a21/2 gal but it will hold more. Ignore the thermometer and just run a steady stream. In my byline I have a post on how I run my still, you might be interested.

[Truckinbutch]

PoPoVanWinkle, I think I have the same still as you. It is a21/2 gal but it will hold more. Ignore the thermometer and just run a steady stream. In my byline I have a post on how I run my still, you might be interested.

If you can match what he makes you have arrived .

[Pikey]

....................
Questions>
1) Can you run a pot still to hot ?
My second run was over 200 F (first run under 200 F) and it was nice drip but I never got a pencil stream from either run. I am in a little doubt as to the accuracy of this thermometer, but its all I got.
2) Is my production of low wines "about right"? And how long would you expect a 3 gallon pot still at 13 % ABV to have to run before your into the tails . To be honest , the end of the run at ~20 % ABV still tasted good. Maybe I didn't go far enough. Maybe my "taster" isnt too refined yet , but the wife liked it too !
I'm doing this for fun and want to make a quality product..........

Where is your thermometer ?

Coincidentally I ran 25 Litres (6.5 us gallons?) last night at, I estimate 12% and my run started with a head temp of 79 C and I stopped it at 99.7 C - about 211 in your units (as I was down to just under 20% and couldn't be assed waiting for half an hour for the last half cupful of ethanol. )

Now IF your temp is measured at the head, you can go quite a bit higher than 200 F imho

If that temp is boiler temp, my boiler was a little over 90C (I measure the outside temp of the stainless just for interest and it read 89.8 C) [ Head temp is considerably higher than boiler temp in mine]

But my equipment is not the same as yours and won't be directly comparable.

I would say turn your heat UP until you do get a little stream and run to a lower abv than 20 bearing in mind your start point - until you do get the "Feel" of your kit.

I think you may have left a bit in the pot - but hey - you got a good result from a first time !

[PoPo VanWinkle]

Bigbob- I read your post from 6/16, and it really helped me "crystallize" my approach to how I will run this still in the future. Awesome info ! Thank you .
1) never got a pencil lead stream - that's a goal for next distillation run
2) Have similar space constraints - I agree that the product is good on first run, so I don't think I'll try to keep any for a second distillation. If I have more time, bigger pot, then maybe.
3) I almost assuredly left a little in the wash, but I got similar production to what you mention in your post , so I feel fairly good about it. I'm not trying to "squeeze the last drop" out of it.
4) My foreshot cut was a little less ( ~175 ml) , I may increase it - but I'll do it by smell!
I did notice that the tails got "watery", by feel and taste, but I really didn't run into a lot of "off flavors". Am going to use the glass trick and check it in 24 hours to see if I can identify any off notes.

This is an interesting hobby and clearly there are a lot of ways to end up with a disaster or a great product, the skill is in the latter!

[Danespirit]

Bigbob- I read your post from 6/16, and it really helped me "crystallize" my approach to how I will run this still in the future. Awesome info ! Thank you .
1) never got a pencil lead stream - that's a goal for next distillation run
2) Have similar space constraints - I agree that the product is good on first run, so I don't think I'll try to keep any for a second distillation. If I have more time, bigger pot, then maybe.
3) I almost assuredly left a little in the wash, but I got similar production to what you mention in your post , so I feel fairly good about it. I'm not trying to "squeeze the last drop" out of it.
4) My foreshot cut was a little less ( ~175 ml) , I may increase it - but I'll do it by smell!
I did notice that the tails got "watery", by feel and taste, but I really didn't run into a lot of "off flavors". Am going to use the glass trick and check it in 24 hours to see if I can identify any off notes.

This is an interesting hobby and clearly there are a lot of ways to end up with a disaster or a great product, the skill is in the latter!

1) If you run a stripping run, then just crank her up all she can take...it's a pot still..run it like one. On a spirit run or just one pass run, a pencil lead stream is the bullseye.
2) You should really try doing a spirit run with low wines, it improves the quality by miles..!
3) If you run down to 20% ABV, there ain't much left in the boiler worth the effort.
4) Feel and taste...bingo..! It's the only way to run a pot still correctly, forget about that damned thermometer...it will do nothing but to give you a useless information about the temperature in there.
The product will run whenever it pleases it to do so and the boiler charge will boil at whatever temperature it likes to do.
Once you have a few runs under the belt, you can determine how your still runs by listening to it. Use the best instruments to determine when to do a cut...your senses.
To let your product air out for some time is good practice, it'll help you to decide what to keep and what to throw in the next batch for reprocessing.

Btw...is there any chance you'll like to share a photo of your beauty...the still that is..

[NZChris]

The smaller a still is, the more advantageous it is to double distil. A fermenter three or four times the size of a still charge will give a good sized spirit run and make it easier to get some qualty spirits aging in you cellar, better quality than you will get messing around with singles.

[PoPo VanWinkle]

First attempt to post photo of my still
I think the wife got it because "it's pretty" (she's an artist !)

[rad14701]

Just to add some reference here, when I pot still (without a thumper), regardless of the starting collection temperature, I run all the way to 208F/98C before shutting down... Actually, I stop as the temperature starts flip-flopping between 208 and 208.5... YMMV...

[Danespirit]

That's a beauty...!
However, these Alembic's mostly come with a rather small flake stand.
I would suggest having some kind of reservoir for additional water.
If I see this correctly, there is a pipe sticking out of the stand at the top....so that should be the return to the reservoir.
I bet there is a pipe at the bottom of it, too. That's where the water should go in.
A cheap fish pond pump could easily move enough water around to keep that flake stand at an adequate temperature.
The picture below shows a pump similar to mine...dirt cheap on E-bay and it has served me for 4 years now.
Lift height is 1,2 m and the flow is stated to 600 L/hr (well, it depends on what tubing one puts on there...so).

8 $ pump from E-bay

[Bigbob]

PoPoVanWinkle thanks for the kind words. As Danespirit said get yourself a small fountain pump and recirculate the water. I use a 48qt cooler with tap water and that is good for a single run.( if you want to do more than a single run just change out some of the water). As to whether to run single or strip and spirit runs, you are the best judge. I have been to a lot of meet and greets in this forum and have had no complaints on my sweet feed, which has always been a single spirit run. But you can always try it (a strip and spirit run) to see what works best for you.

[PoPo VanWinkle]

Just finished my second ever run on a Corn/Rye/Barley recipe. (45.5% corn, 18.1% Rye, 22.7% Barley, Sugar 13.6%), fermented with EC 1118 and yeast nutrient ove about 2.5 weeks . Went from initial SG of 1.080 to .995, so I felt good about the ferment. Ran 1/2 of it last night ( about 2. 5+ gallons) , discarded 125 ml foreshots , collected 4 pints of 102 proof spirit. and 1 pint of tails - thrown back in left over wash for next run. Really didn't pay attention to temp - just output and taste . MUCH better way to go!
This run has a bit more "bite' or "burn" on the throat but I get a little of the rye showing through. Going to run the rest soon as I can.
Want to age this on oak - looks like consensus on the Forum is for sticks not chips. If I wanted to try for an old school "rye whisky" taste - what would you suggest?
This forum is great and I really enjoy reading all the information here!

[NZChris]

102 proof is quite low for aging, which is why most double distill or use a thumper.

I use chips or dominoes, whichever I fancy at the time, aiming to add an amount that can be left in for years without over oaking.

[PoPo VanWinkle]

NZChris-
Do you use charred and uncharred oak , and if so what proportions?

[NZChris]

Toasted and charred, using a protocol I found on this forum. Amounts vary between my batches of oak and I have to experiment to find the optimum. Nuking a sample three times is one way of checking the ratio.

[Bigbob]

I've never had a problem with chips and low ABV( 100-80 proof).

[PoPo VanWinkle]

So I've been distress aging my corn/rye whiskey alternating between the freezer and then a warm room for about 2 weeks and the result is amazing! Over the weekend I used a sous vide water bath at 140 F for 6-8 hours a day. The almost daily change in smell of the product is remarkable. The harsher notes are gone and it has real warm, vanilla, caramel, "woodsy" notes and the corn "nose" is diminished. I used charred medium + oak spirals in one jug and chips in the other. The chips are making a darker liquor. Haven't tasted it yet!