Summer dellema.

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ARK ANGEL
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Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:07 pm

I'm unsure if
Does anyone have any experience with high temp tolerant yeasts and summer brewing.
I've been brewing throughout winter and spring, using electric blanket to maintain 18c to 26c, and have had some awesome results with fruit/sugar washes, I was getting a 75% average for neutral, and 70% for the fruit wash, with one run using a little single marble type reflux condenser without the marble on a 5 liter cooker.
I've done much research, was extra cautious with measurements, sterilizing, dissolving down the dextrose and starting temps.
It bubbled vigorously for 2 or so days, yeast instructions say 2-3 days to finish, possibly up to 5, to make sure, I agitated it once or twice, left it for total 6-7 days.
The SGM read good, it tasted right, no sweetness and a wine like taste (as before), should have been an approx 14% wash, yielding around 3.7 to 4.2 liters at around 75% for a 25 liter wash, but got barely 1 liter and was rank with tails.
I polished it through a filter with 120mg carbon, 1 drip per second around 7 times, but it was still very aromatic and flavored, which it should not have been being a neutral sugar wash.
I checked for vapor leaks and temp control was a bit higher than usual at 86-87c fluctuating, air temp was 38c average.
My only theories are lack of condensation causing vapor loss due to high ambient temp, even though vapor temps were within limits, the cooling water was coming out considerably warmer than usual, and/or excess sugar causing yeast to bog down before finishing, as I understand yeast will tend to dislike high temps once minimum alcohol content is reached (around 14%), and excess sugar will not be processed, which was evident as it was frothing in the pot.
I now have a batch of strawberry mash, due in about 3-4 days, I'll be trying out my new 30 liter cooker with the new tall stainless column pot scrubber type reflux condenser.
Without actual brand naming, it's the Keg type O, which is the Max I'm willing to say :wink: (can someone please let me know if I can say the brand or not, thanks).
Do you think I should leave the wash for much longer than specified? I know traditionally you can leave a mash mix for a couple of weeks to make sure it's done, but I can't find any confirmation of this with the turbo temp tolerant and 48hr type yeasts, any info on these would be much appreciated, thanks for reading.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by still_stirrin » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:08 am

ARK ANGEL wrote:I'll be trying out my new 30 liter cooker with the new tall stainless column pot scrubber type reflux condenser...Keg type O, which is the Max I'm willing to say. (can someone please let me know if I can say the brand or not, thanks).
Is it a "legal" keg? A 30-liter keg costs about $130USD new. So there's no reason to steal one from the distributor. We don't really care if you mention the "brand" of the keg or not, but if the keg was aquired illegally, the owner might not like it.
ss
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by Pikey » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:46 am

Hi,

Wish it was summer here - minus 2 C is best today ! - Yeah I think you may have it - If the taste was "as normal" (of the wash) and your cooling water is hotter then I think you may be letting some go ! :(

I'm surprised you didn't smell anything tho' and maybe you can hold your hand over the spirit discharge see if any warm gas is excaping ?

Turn your water flow up ?

Reduce your heating rate ?

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:22 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
ARK ANGEL wrote:I'll be trying out my new 30 liter cooker with the new tall stainless column pot scrubber type reflux condenser...Keg type O, which is the Max I'm willing to say. (can someone please let me know if I can say the brand or not, thanks).
Is it a "legal" keg? A 30-liter keg costs about $130USD new. So there's no reason to steal one from the distributor. We don't really care if you mention the "brand" of the keg or not, but if the keg was aquired illegally, the owner might not like it.
ss
WTF?? Don't know how you get the impression I acquired anything illegally, but anyway, the cooker is just a purpose built factory job (not a keg), with the element under the base side tap and 4 latch top.
The condenser is a "Keggomax" brand, column reflux job, hence my previous cryptic reference.
Together they cost around $400.00AUD, I don't bloody steal! I don't know what is common practice among your circles, but where I come from we take a rather dim view on thieves and an even lower view on false accusers, being new here, courtesy holds me from my usual response to this kind of frivolous drivel, so I will leave it lay here at this point.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:53 pm

Pikey wrote:Hi,

Wish it was summer here - minus 2 C is best today ! - Yeah I think you may have it - If the taste was "as normal" (of the wash) and your cooling water is hotter then I think you may be letting some go ! :(

I'm surprised you didn't smell anything tho' and maybe you can hold your hand over the spirit discharge see if any warm gas is excaping ?

Turn your water flow up ?

Reduce your heating rate ?
Yikes! minus 2c is cold, we might get a 1c on occasion over winter, 0c has been known.
I have a hunch my thermometer is inaccurate and temperamental, I'll try a different brand as they are cheap enough.
Yep, I recon probably a bit of a combo of things, but can you tell me how far into the bung should the thermometer go? I've been putting it in about an inch above the 0 line, it's quite long, the thermometer I mean. :roll:

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by Deerhunter » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:38 am

Are you using turbo's?
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by shadylane » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:48 am

@ ARK ANGEL :wave:
Do you have a hydrometer to measure the SG :?:
Is this the rig your running :?:
http://www.kegking.com.au/Downloads/Keg ... ochure.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:57 am

Deerhunter- Yes, turbo yeast and plain dextrose.
shadylane- As I previously stated, my SGM read a reasonable number, but I have read shit numbers before and got my best yield to date, so I only measure for record purposes, I reckon it's either a useless brand or the whole theory is flawed.
My rig- as I also previously stated above, had been using a small copper single marble reflux condenser on a 5 liter pot averaging 70-75 % at between 3-4+ liters single run, from a 21-25 liter wash, bit better on the neutral bit less on the fruit wash.
Now have a 30 liter pot (not the keg) with the "Keggomax" (exactly as per the link) stainless column, pot scrubber type reflux condenser.
Have 2 fruit washes ready to go any day now, so my first run on the new rig will be interesting.
If I'm allowed, I will post pics and factory info on my rigs and some action pics of the SGM in the wash.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by rad14701 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:09 am

What, exactly, is a "single marble reflux condenser"...??? As for the yeast issue, plain old bakers yeast works fine even in moderately warm weather... But bakers yeast will ferment much cooler than the turbo yeasts you have been promoting here in the forums so heat may not be an issue... There are many ways to keep a ferment cool just as there are to keep them warm... Partially bury your fermenters in the ground, add a fan cooled radiator circuit with the hot coming out the top and cold returning into the bottom (with or with a pump), or whatever other method works for your situation...

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:54 pm

Ha ha ha, oh man, the ground here is the hottest possible place, I'd have to go down about 2-3 feet of bauxite and granite, then 6-12 inches of coffee rock to be any cooler at all, beside the insatiable Argentine ants and having to build a new mouse proof insulated, ventilated cover, yeah, I guess I could reduce the ambient temp by 5c, maybe.
So, promoting now? Oh you guys are precious, what, I can't answer questions or give accurate descriptions as directed, without being accused of promoting? or by some even accused of fucking stealing? Really guys? What the fuck is your problem?
You think my being new will give you free reign to play childish word games without a due response?
I bet none would say this shit to my face, not a second time anyway, just don't bother "helping" me if you cannot refrain from your derogatory comments, don't you have anything more constructive to amuse you?
I don't need your kind of "assistance", I can figure this stuff on my own if need be, I've come this far, I just thought I could get some advice from friendly people with experience, didn't know that meant having to cop bullshit from some of you.
So far I've had a few friendly responses, which is encouraging, but One guy just inferred I stole something, one guy said I was promoting something and one guy asked me questions I'd already posted info on, after I got told to read things thoroughly, because of a typo, CRIKEY!!!.
Anyhow, this is my single marble unit.
50283-500x500_zpsf21a8d2a.jpg
There are 4 dimples in the center of the column between the two water pipes which holds a marble, but honestly, I get the same exact results without the marble, perhaps it is just to denote when to stop, as it starts to rattle just before the run slows right down.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by shadylane » Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:47 am

ARK ANGEL wrote: shadylane- As I previously stated, my SGM read a reasonable number, ........
.....One guy just inferred I stole something, one guy said I was promoting something and one guy asked me questions I'd already posted info on,
Guess I was the guy, who asked the question :oops:
I got some more for you, what is a SMG and what is a reasonable number :eh: :lol:

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by still_stirrin » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:07 pm

Speculation here....."SGM" ----> "specific gravity measurement" ????

"Reasonable numbers" .... who the heck knows? It is a "moving target".
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:08 am

Ok, the SGM, SS got it in one, specific gravity measurement (or meter).
Yep, good numbers aka- start about 1100, finish around 0985. for an 8kg dextrose & turbo 48hr wash at 26 - 28c.
Of course as you know it changes with temp and recipe, so these are averaged numbers.
Now for the really stupid part... your going to love this... I solved my low yield problems, the wash levels were definitely low.
You see, here in Oz we have been metric since 1966 (before even I was born), so it's ingrained.
But, I recently bought scales from an elderly lady in our community and they looked fairly modern, red and white plastic, but apparently are over 50 years old and are in imperial scale, so when I was measuring what I thought were kg, were in fact lbs! which makes it considerably less than half, an embarrassingly rookie fail there, should have clued to the volume.
What tipped me off, was the watery taste of the wash, to my mind there wasn't enough sweetness for a stalled wash, and no wine like aroma, so I concluded that either the dextrose was weak or cut (very unlikely), or somehow I just didn't put enough in, so I took out the scales to put on a 1kg weight for calibrating, and lo, the tiny "Lbs" letters were right there mocking me, so with feelings of both shame and joy, I immediately rectified the situation.
But I caught it in time, dissolved down the balance of the dextrose, stirred it in and within 10 minutes, it was popping away like crazy, I checked a few hours later and it was going even harder, so that should be that.
I will keep updating this thread till I can say how it tastes and any hangover reports.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by rad14701 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:59 pm

ARK ANGEL, please put your location, even if just Australia, in your profile so we don't have to guess where you're from... It'll make it easier to make geographic suggestions in the future...

As for your tirade above, get over it... We ask about "legal kegs" all the time because folks here in the US seem to think nothing of stealing kegs rather than going the legal and ethical route... They think that it's okay if their buddy at a bar gives them a keg, not realizing that the bars don't own the kegs, the beer distributors do... And most scrap yards won't even take a keg from an individual because people steal them from behind bars and anywhere else they can get ahold of them if they aren't locked up... Nobody said you were a thief... We just frown on stealing kegs and even have at least one topic on their legal sourcing... Grow a thicker skin and don't take everything so literally and personally...

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by xyz123 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:07 pm

You know, I have recently divorced my forth wife, I was thinking about that and had thought you think women would have learned by now.

What I am trying to articulate is that if enough people give you a response, enough times, randomly, perhaps it has something to do with your delivery rather than them.

That is worth thinking about.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:44 pm

rad14701 wrote:ARK ANGEL, please put your location, even if just Australia, in your profile so we don't have to guess where you're from... It'll make it easier to make geographic suggestions in the future...

As for your tirade above, get over it... We ask about "legal kegs" all the time because folks here in the US seem to think nothing of stealing kegs rather than going the legal and ethical route... They think that it's okay if their buddy at a bar gives them a keg, not realizing that the bars don't own the kegs, the beer distributors do... And most scrap yards won't even take a keg from an individual because people steal them from behind bars and anywhere else they can get ahold of them if they aren't locked up... Nobody said you were a thief... We just frown on stealing kegs and even have at least one topic on their legal sourcing... Grow a thicker skin and don't take everything so literally and personally...
Like most things in life, it's not what you say, it's the way you say it.

That "stealing" comment was directed to me with no disclaim for generality or forthright explanation, such as yours above, therefore at best infers an underlying agenda of some derogatory manner.
I live in a community where we expect and assume people to be honest, fiercely proud of our hard work and honesty ethics even the smallest crime can set you as a community outcast, this way, petty crime is minimal and extremely obvious, any forgiveness is hard earned and trust takes that 10 fold, even if only suspected or accused, so forgive me if I seem overly retaliatory to you in my responses.
You can say "get a thicker skin" if it pleases you, but it's thick enough, lest I quit the forum on such grounds, which will never be the case, but lying down for any such comment is something reserved for the weak, guilty or like witted thoughtless arrogance, of which I am none, thank you sir.
I fear not matching wit nor tongue (text etc) with anybody deserving a reminder of basic courtesy, I invariably find little effort is required for those short on reason or wisdom.
"Rant", you say? Well, however you chose to paint it, I suggest you get used to it, I give twice what I get, whether nasty or nice, I may be the equivalent of a hillbilly, but don't confuse that with uncivilized or uneducated, besides, best I just get it off my chest so I can move on.

Used kegs are easily obtained from hotels and breweries here, of which are in great abundance, as I'm sure you can imagine, at easily affordable prices.
Even the local "home brew" stores stock all sizes new and used, so stealing one would truly be an act of crime rather than necessity.
Stilling spirits is far from a common hobby here, as most tastes run to beer, every second household has a home brew beer setup, it's cheap and legal.
I did it myself in my younger days, achieving high alcohol lagers and stout was simple with off the shelf cans of predetermined types.
Stilling spirit can hold hefty fines, but "hobby sized" kits , at around 50 liters, are mostly of little concern to police, the drug problems overshadow everything, authorities can't even put a dent in it to date.
Moonshine and derivatives are extremely hard to come by for the consumer, and since the introduction of the GST (goods ans services tax), in the 90's, retail spirits, premixed or straight bottled, has been cut nearly in half, so demand and awareness is low, most Aussies know "moonshine" only as a word on tv associated with American hillbillies, and that's largely due to Steve Earl, and more recently Tim & Tickle, we get most US tv about 5-10 years after you guys, just like all tech up until 5-10 years ago.
Geographic suggestions? :esurprised: Ok, I'll just take that one on face value (You'll get used to my humor). :roll:
Last edited by ARK ANGEL on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:00 pm

xyz123 wrote:You know, I have recently divorced my forth wife, I was thinking about that and had thought you think women would have learned by now.

What I am trying to articulate is that if enough people give you a response, enough times, randomly, perhaps it has something to do with your delivery rather than them.

That is worth thinking about.
Hmm... Really, you don't say... I'm so glad you pointed that out, gee now I can finally start thinking, thank you. :sarcasm:
Delivery huh? :think: Did you read all of this thread? Perhaps you refer to something specific about my "delivery".
Can you even make a distinction? Or, are you just blindly spieling ambiguous rhetoric in an attempt to back the boys against the newcomer?
I can fully understand and respect if that's the case, loyalty is an honorable trait and I could be persuaded to back away under those circumstances.
But if you are just looking for a cheap shot while the arrows fly, well... I guess at this point I can shoulder a little bullshit to help you feel of some worth, after all, I do consider myself a humanitarian. :roll:
Articulate... I operated triple road trains for 6 years after 20 on varying types of heavy haulage, those vehicles are classed as "semi articulated".
Are you a truck driver by any chance? :lol:

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by Mikey-moo » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:27 am

ARK ANGEL wrote: I checked for vapor leaks and temp control was a bit higher than usual at 86-87c fluctuating, air temp was 38c average.
Hi ARK ANGEL - welcome to the forum.

Can I ask what you mean by 'temp control' above please? And how are you heating your still?
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:30 am

Mikey-moo wrote:
ARK ANGEL wrote: I checked for vapor leaks and temp control was a bit higher than usual at 86-87c fluctuating, air temp was 38c average.
Hi ARK ANGEL - welcome to the forum.

Can I ask what you mean by 'temp control' above please? And how are you heating your still?
G-day Mikey, cheers. :thumbup:

I mean the controlled water cooling system not keeping the thermometer down as low as I'd usually like.
The pot is a factory 5 liter type with an uncontrolled internal, removable circular 240v element, wattage, unknown, set temp- 125c.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by greggn » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:51 am

ARK ANGEL wrote: Anyhow, this is my single marble unit.
50283-500x500_zpsf21a8d2a.jpg


Is that reflux/product condenser assembly all molded plastic ? Even the vapor path ?
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by xyz123 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:50 am

greggn wrote:
ARK ANGEL wrote: Anyhow, this is my single marble unit.
50283-500x500_zpsf21a8d2a.jpg


Is that reflux/product condenser assembly all molded plastic ? Even the vapor path ?

It actually looks exactly like this one... sorry for the external link.

http://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5299" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by Mikey-moo » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:04 pm

ARK ANGEL wrote:
Mikey-moo wrote:
ARK ANGEL wrote: I checked for vapor leaks and temp control was a bit higher than usual at 86-87c fluctuating, air temp was 38c average.
Hi ARK ANGEL - welcome to the forum.

Can I ask what you mean by 'temp control' above please? And how are you heating your still?
G-day Mikey, cheers. :thumbup:

I mean the controlled water cooling system not keeping the thermometer down as low as I'd usually like.
The pot is a factory 5 liter type with an uncontrolled internal, removable circular 240v element, wattage, unknown, set temp- 125c.
Hmmm sounds ok... so the cooling collar controls the output - a bit like with a T500. Could be good.

Not sure what the single marble achieves, but let us know how you get on :-)
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by skow69 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:20 pm

I am curious about the single marble unit. Who makes that? It appears to be a CM with a concentric reflux condenser on about a 6 inch column. Is that right? And if so, what is the purpose of the concentric condenser?
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by skow69 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:27 pm

ARK ANGEL wrote:have had some awesome results with fruit/sugar washes, I was getting a 75% average for neutral, and 70% for the fruit wash, with one run using a little single marble type reflux condenser without the marble on a 5 liter cooker.
WOW. That's pretty impressive for a single run. What was the alcohol content of your wash?
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by xyz123 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:17 pm

skow69 wrote:I am curious about the single marble unit. Who makes that? It appears to be a CM with a concentric reflux condenser on about a 6 inch column. Is that right? And if so, what is the purpose of the concentric condenser?
http://www.essencia.co.nz/Downloads/A56.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by skow69 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:14 am

Well now I am really intrigued. The link shows me the Express Still and Super express still, but no marbles. I dug around and found the Ultra 1000, which is quite interesting, but nothing about marbles anywhere.

It sounds like they get very good performance out of those express stills, but they seem to be pretty fiddly. Is the single marble a variant of the Express Still?
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by xyz123 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:00 am

skow69 wrote:Well now I am really intrigued. The link shows me the Express Still and Super express still, but no marbles. I dug around and found the Ultra 1000, which is quite interesting, but nothing about marbles anywhere.

It sounds like they get very good performance out of those express stills, but they seem to be pretty fiddly. Is the single marble a variant of the Express Still?
They are full of shit.

Output comes out hot, which tricks the beginner with the Alchometer reading.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by ARK ANGEL » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:38 am

Ok guys..I have no idea of the alcohol content of that wash, I started out with a home made still and no instruction, what I learned was by trial and error, no gauges, thermometers or set recipes, just taste touch and smell, I know if the wash is good without a SGM, specifics seem a waste of time, I just make it to taste, but I have been using the gauges for reference as everybody keeps preaching to me about "specifics", my attitude is specific gravity measurement is great for industry and those with no ability to use their own senses, I do like to get an exact proof on the finished spirits, just to check my shake n taste method, which is always spot on, so in reality, the only gauge I need is the still thermometer.
I don't know who makes the single marble condenser, it was given to me, concentric? no, the condenser a spiral config, like a worm, and is entirely made of some kind of copper alloy.
The purpose of the marble is speculative, but seems to act as a basic primary condenser to help some of the more water laden vapor return to the pot, plus as the wash is depleted of alcohol and the temp indicates to stop collecting, it rattles, so perhaps it's an audible indicator of sorts.
But before I found out about it, I was happily using it without it and getting 70%-75% average anyway, so it's purpose is of little effect either way, it works great as is.
Here is a pic I drew of the column internals and where the marble sits, hope it helps.
single marble reflux condenser.jpg
Now, as for my new still and recently cooked off wash, Something is still not quite right, I only got 2.5 liters at 90% from my 21 liter wash, I left it for a week longer than normal to make sure it had finished, I used 6kg of dextrose in 21 liters with a few punnets of cooked strawberries for flavor and nutrients with turbo temp tolerant yeast, but the SGM read almost 1000, I can't figure why it's just not playing the game, I've had great success all throughout winter and spring, the weather has gone mild lately so I'm stumped, it's not like I haven't done my homework or its my first run.
If I thought it possible, I'd say the dextrose is weak or cut with something.
I'll just have to eliminate the ingredients one by one, so my next wash will be sugar, we'll see what happens.

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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by rad14701 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:48 am

The marble is most likely there to force the vapor to the side walls of the reflux condenser and that would be its main purpose... It would impede vapor from flowing straight up the column without making contact with the condenser section wall...

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skow69
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Re: Summer dellema.

Post by skow69 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:06 pm

Do you have any packing below the marble, ARK ANGEL? That would prolly increase the purity some. Without it most of the reflux will fall into the boiler and mix back into the charge. It is an interesting design, shows that you can get a lot of improvement in a short device.
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
I'm not an absinthe snob, I'm The Absinthe Nazi. "NO ABSINTHE FOR YOU!"

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