Liebig size requirement for 5500w element?

[BDF]

I've got a keg, and with the help of info on this sight got a 5500watt element and controller installed and functional for it. Now I'm making a list of copper stuff I need for a simple head and condenser to run it as a pot still and I'm looking for experiences of how long/large of a liebig it would take to knock down the stuff from a 5500watt element on a stripping run?

Going with a double wall liebig design and pot head similar to that found in the reading lounge:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p6950271
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p6950270

Some additional questions:
#1. I see a lot of others going with a 3/4" jacket over 1/2" inner, and using heavy wire to force a swirl. Does this make it cool better/worse than just using a 1" outer jacket? or just allow it to be lighter?
#2. Do people often use ground water from the tap at the inlet? I would assume length is also dependent on how cool of water you have available. I have some sizable radiators I wanted to eventually hook up to fans to have a looping cooling system with a pump rather than just run the facet or fill a large tub with ice.

Any comments welcome.

[bitter]

This might help.. http://homedistiller.org/calcs/cond_calc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[BDF]

This might help.. http://homedistiller.org/calcs/cond_calc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Indeed it does. If that kind of napkin math is even close to accurate seems like a dual-walled liebig won't be able to handle a full 5500w while remaining a reasonable length, and that for varying water temp inputs aiming for 3 to 4ft of liebig would work if I dialed back to ~2000w or 36% power once at a boil. Interesting. Seemed a bit on the excessive side at first then I remembered, a friend of mine had a ~40" liebig and ran on a 11,000watt propane burner, but he did have to dial the gas back pretty low to get a steady stream. Guess that pretty much answers that. And seeing that the wall temp of the inner tube is all that really matters for heat transfer means no real diff between a 1" outer jacket or a 3/4" outer jacket other than the required flow rate, which is easy enough to adjust.

Thanks for the quick response.

[Truckinbutch]

This might help.. http://homedistiller.org/calcs/cond_calc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Indeed it does. If that kind of napkin math is even close to accurate seems like a dual-walled liebig won't be able to handle a full 5500w while remaining a reasonable length, and that for varying water temp inputs aiming for 3 to 4ft of liebig would work if I dialed back to ~2000w or 36% power once at a boil. Interesting. Seemed a bit on the excessive side at first then I remembered, a friend of mine had a ~40" liebig and ran on a 11,000watt propane burner, but he did have to dial the gas back pretty low to get a steady stream. Guess that pretty much answers that. And seeing that the wall temp of the inner tube is all that really matters for heat transfer means no real diff between a 1" outer jacket or a 3/4" outer jacket other than the required flow rate, which is easy enough to adjust.

Thanks for the quick response.

Don't fool yourself trying to find answers to fit the outcome you desire . I can tell you for certain that a 1" over 1/2" condenser with a wire wrap on the 1/2" of 48" +/- length will knock down anything you want to throw at it . My 60k BTU propane burner can't overwhelm my condenser .
I helped SRD build one like it and it reduced his water usage by 90% .

[shadylane]

I've got a keg, and with the help of info on this sight got a 5500watt element and controller installed and functional for it.......Going with a liebig...

One of the limiting factors on a 5500w keg still will be pukeing.
You can use the 5500w for heat up, but once it starts boiling, you better turn the power down
To answer your question about what sized liebig to use.
I'd suggest a liebig 36" long with a 3/4" inner and 1" water jacket
Smaller will work, Bigger is getting into copper porn
Just a thought
A water jacket only needs to be big enough to keep the inner jacket cool.
The surface area of inner tube, where the vapor condensates is a limiting factor.
Posting with TB

[der wo]

I am with shadylane.
I don't think, you will use the full 5500W after heat up. And I would use 3/4" and 1". Something like 1/2" and 1" is wasting copper, the 1" will not result in more cooling than the 3/4". I have 1" + 3/4" with 38" length, 2.6kW is condensed and gets cold with really little water.

[TxBrewing]

I've got a keg, and with the help of info on this sight got a 5500watt element and controller installed and functional for it.......Going with a liebig...

One of the limiting factors on a 5500w keg still will be pukeing.
You can use the 5500w for heat up, but once it starts boiling, you better turn the power down
To answer your question about what sized liebig to use.
I'd suggest a liebig 36" long with a 3/4" inner and 1" water jacket
Smaller will work, Bigger is getting into copper porn
Just a thought
A water jacket only needs to be big enough to keep the inner jacket cool.
The surface area of inner tube, where the vapor condensates is a limiting factor.
Posting with TB

This is how I built mine. The jacket on mine is 32 inches long

[Jimbo]

I have a 3/4 over 1/2 with the copper wire to turbulate the water flow. 4' or so. I can run full tits at 5500 on barely more than a slow trickle and have cold distillate and steaming hot outlet water.

I also use a strip of copper mesh 3' long jammed up the 1/2". It makes a HUGE difference. Without it I need to turn the water up quite a bit when running hot (stripping).

This crap. http://www.brewhaus.com/Copper-Mesh.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[BDF]

I have a 3/4 over 1/2 with the copper wire to turbulate the water flow. 4' or so. I can run full tits at 5500 on barely more than a slow trickle and have cold distillate and steaming hot outlet water.

I also use a strip of copper mesh 3' long jammed up the 1/2". It makes a HUGE difference. Without it I need to turn the water up quite a bit when running hot (stripping).

This crap. http://www.brewhaus.com/Copper-Mesh.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Very interesting, do you have any issues with drying it out or holding water and oxidizing, do you remove it after each run? Does it end up holding a lot of booze in the condenser, or does it seem to drain all out on its own?

[Jimbo]

It doesnt hold anything, its just a mesh and the liebig is at 45 degrees down. It does get boogered up, surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, so yes I remove it and rinse it out good after runs. Because the vapor is travelling through this copper mesh Im sure its helping knock down any sulfide components in the vapor also, another side benefit.

[DBCFlash]

I used 1 1/2 over a 3/4 tube but it's only about 22" long. To increase the surface area the vapors come in contact with I squashed the 3/4 into a twisting triangle shape. It increases the surface area and the twist creates a more turbulent path so the vapors don't stand a chance. With my 5500 watt element on volcano mode I can knock down pure water vapor from boiling to cool no problem. When I'm running I have never needed to do more than crack the valve for my water.
Dimpling and squashing the inner tube is an easy way to increase a Liebig's efficiency.

[cranky]

I use a 36" long 3/4 over half with a wire spiral both in the jacket and in the 1/2" like talked about here ( http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =87&t=9247 ) and run stripping runs at the full 5500W with no problems.

[BDF]

Lots of different experiences I see here. What kind of water supply your guys using?

Straight from the tap?
Reservoir + pump? if so, how do you cool the recirculating water?

[DBCFlash]

Lots of different experiences I see here. What kind of water supply your guys using?

Straight from the tap?
Reservoir + pump? if so, how do you cool the recirculating water?

Straight tap water. It's winter here so it's pretty cold right out of the tap. I suppose when it's Summer it might change things a little

[cranky]

recirc system here, I have a 15.5 gallon keg running 5500W element, I have a couple 30 gallon reservoirs and a 50 gallon one. I normally have 2 full of water for my reflux setup and replace the water every year or so. I don't cool the water, the 30 gallon can handle a full run, maybe 2, I know the 50 gallon can handle 2 before needing to cool. So if I want to I can do 3 runs in a day, generally that is about all I want to do on any one day, then I let them cool at least overnight before doing it again. I also like to keep the outlet above the reservoir so I can hear that the pump is working.

[shadylane]

Lots of different experiences I see here. What kind of water supply you guys using

Garden hose or air-cooled

[Truckinbutch]

Tap water because it is cheap here . I could also do recirc if I need to .

[BDF]

Gonna go with a 1" jacket over 3/4" inner pipe, with the bare copper wire wrap, and 36" jacketed length. I grabbed some of the copper mesh as well in case I get some huffing or want to run the still harder. Right now space claim is a bigger issue than weight. Long term, once I have it up and running, and a few more tools to my name, I'm gonna make me a shotgun condenser.

Thanks for all the input!

[BDF]

Update: My liebig is mounted vertically. 1" outer pipe, 36" jacketed length, 3/4" inner pipe, 14ga solid wire spiral between the two pipes.

Did my vinegar part of my cleaning runs and its knocking everything down at full power like a champ, no copper mesh in the vapor path either and no huffing as far as I can tell. Big success.

[Truckinbutch]

Update: My liebig is mounted vertically. 1" outer pipe, 36" jacketed length, 3/4" inner pipe, 14ga solid wire spiral between the two pipes.

Did my vinegar part of my cleaning runs and its knocking everything down at full power like a champ, no copper mesh in the vapor path either and no huffing as far as I can tell. Big success.

Don't ya love it when a plan comes together .

[BDF]

Update: My liebig is mounted vertically. 1" outer pipe, 36" jacketed length, 3/4" inner pipe, 14ga solid wire spiral between the two pipes.

Did my vinegar part of my cleaning runs and its knocking everything down at full power like a champ, no copper mesh in the vapor path either and no huffing as far as I can tell. Big success.

Don't ya love it when a plan comes together .

Yes indeed. Finished my sacrificial cleaning run as well now. No vapor leaks anywhere. Was a bit worried since my soldering job wasn't as clean as I'm used to since I swapped to solder without antimony, didn't flow quite as well. Now I'm learning/figuring out my tear down procedure and now that my rig is rock solid get to move on to actually fermenting something again.