Raksi Nepal Still

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windorabug
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Raksi Nepal Still

Post by windorabug »

After several years of brewing mead, I decided to jump into distilling when
my friendly neighbor said, "Hey, I have a still I brought back from Nepal
in the 70s...."

I'm obviously new to distilling and want to learn about the process. I
picked up some reading material on the topic but am a bit lost on two
items:

The still my neighbor has is very similar to a stock pot still except that
it's a traditional still used in Nepal, known as a Raksi still. The posting
below on this forum has some information on it:
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=45115&p=7143497&hilit=nepal#p7143497

Super basic, no real method to figure out what is happening inside, and
pretty darn cool.

Just for the heck of it, we distilled some mead the other day and ended up
with something tasty and probably around 30% on the first pass. We were
mainly testing the still as it had been in storage for some time and
weren't too interested in what came out.

My question is this:

Because this thing basically distills everything with no controls and the
inability to perform cuts, what's the danger here with methanol? Everything
I've read is that you can't control for it and you'll end up with some
methanol in the final batch. Obviously, this is somewhat concerning and I'm
trying to figure out the danger here. Having methanol in the end product
doesn't seem ideal but everything I've read is that you basically accept
it. Can anyone shed any light on this?
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still_stirrin
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by still_stirrin »

Can you post a picture of it here? The link you posted is dead. So, we're all "flying blind". Note, the photo should be 800x800 pixels maximum to host on the HD website (recommended). At the bottom of the edit block, there is an "add attachment" button. Click that and navigate to your photo and upload it to the HD site. Simple as that.

Answers will follow once we've seen what the still looks like.
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Still Life
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by Still Life »

and that nice old thing probably needs an enema cleaning, too.
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by cob »

this still? http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... l#p7143497

I think instructions for posting links are in crankys spoon feeding thread
be water my friend
windorabug
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by windorabug »

Hi guys!

Yes, sorry for the newness here. Cob, that still contained in the link is pretty similar to what I have. In fact, I took a picture of it when we were firing up our still and attached a photo.

And yes, we cleaned the heck out of it. It wasn't dirty as it was stored properly but a good scrubbing and it was like new.

I've been doing some more research on it over the day and, because it's pretty special to the guy that brought it back, I wouldn't want to put a tube into the collection pot. I know that would be an easy way to make cuts as it condenses but I would hate to make any changes to it.

Also, I have been reading about the type of liquor they make over there and it's largely rice based. Not sure if that comes into the methanol equation but my understanding is that mash that doesn't contain ample pectin and would be less likely to create methanol.

Still quite lost on the methanol aspect should I want to use it to make whiskey or whatever else and might eventually make / buy a proper still which enables cuts. But, just because this is pretty darn cool and special to my neighbor, I wanted to do a little research. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

Thanks!!!
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Pikey
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by Pikey »

Don't worry about the methanol !

There's a load of crap in foreshots, which we remove by discarding the first few Ml - but methanol is not one of them. Methanol is reckonned to be a "scare story" by those who wish to make the hobby scary.

If you don't have the facility to cut the fores, you will end up with the "headaches" in your bottle. We simply don't.

Run your wash, run some more - then come back and learn how to make a "proper still"

However, I'm sure you will initially be happy with your first product.

all the best

p

[Edit - I'd be very interested to learn that recipe for the authentic Nepal spirit 8) ]
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thecroweater
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by thecroweater »

this design was superseded at least 1900 years ago for a pretty good reason, the only way to make cuts is to completely shut it down and replace the collection container. They are wildly inefficient and a lot of hassle to to get anything resembling decent out of. Maybe fun to play with but not a serious way to produce alcohol.
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by The Baker »

Still Life wrote:and that nice old thing probably needs an enema cleaning, too.
Probably won't be long 'til the nice nurse people will be saying that about me.

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windorabug
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by windorabug »

Pikey -

Thanks for the response.

Can you help me understand why methanol isn't a concern with this design? I'm trying to learn a bit and, from what I understand, methanol would ultimately end up in some of the end product. Just trying to learn here.

Also, sorry, I don't have a recipe - we distilled a batch of strawberry mead that never quite tasted right.

Thanks!
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by Pikey »

It's not just that design w - Whatever wash you made probably had a tiny portion of methanol in it from the original ferment. Alcohol is not converted from one form to another by heating, so the distillate will have the same tiny proportion of methanol as the original wine. No more, No less.

It is spread out through the whole run, so there's just no point worrying about it or trying to remove it.

The other nasties which we throw out with the foreshots will still be in there however, just as they were in your original wine. No more, no less, but still in there. When you make your own still, you will be able to remove them as we do.
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thecroweater
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by thecroweater »

this is not exactly true, methanol having a lower boiling point than ethanol will come off at higher rates in heads ( some ethanol even comes of in heads) please refer to the cuts and fractions posts in the beginners lounge. Fractions on all stills but in particular pot stills are on gradual scale, they don't suddenly switch at a certain temp, they slowly smear. The wash is a compound that you break down into smaller compounds, some of these are azeotropic compounds. That is they will not desperate further than a given ratio under normal conditions. These are the reasons why certain components don't boil of at there actual boiling points because they are mixed with compounds of a dissimilar boiling point eg azeotropic ethanol (which is 95.63%ethanol and water) considerably changing the boil temp etc.
Anyway the bottom line is if you have methanol it will come over and the higher concentration of it will be in the heads (not fores as some claim) . Having had a Chemistry teacher show a few of us what the majority are like in their pure for arranged in the normal take off order you would recognize most but not methanol. it has a barely detectable oder and a very mild almost sweet water taste. It will be consent rated in your heads but with the other pungent compounds you won't know its there. That said for the reasons above some will smear across the run and that's all there is to it.
Fact is under normal conditions there will be very little in the ferment and the harmful nature of methanol is countered by the inclusion of ethanol. The reason you will read about ppl croaking it from methanol poisoning in places like the subcontinent and southeast Asia is because it is sometimes adulterated with methanol products after distillation to maximize profits. Its a subject not really related to distillation as such but the criminal behaviour of third world organized crime, I've seen it most graphically first hand. It is sad, sickening and confronting but not related to poor distillation. That is I drank arrack straight from the village stiller and it was poorly cut but OK and yet that same spirit (once the gangs got hold of it) may well have been responsible for the bodies I saw laying still or groaning in agony. That was some 23 years ago but ya don't forget scenes like that.
All that aside your still is still likely to produce a product that will give you a mighty harsh hangover and really not worth dicking around with. You have discovered it concentrates alcohol and got you interested, so time to build an actual still :thumbup:
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by Pikey »

Morning crow - as ever you're right in what you say ; Beginners lounge etc do have methanol concentrated in fores and heads. However, recent knowledge seems to doubt the accuracy of this and there have been some surprising (to me) posts recently which "smears" that idea and has a higher concentration in tails than heads ! :shock:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 33&t=40606

I'm sad to hear that you have actually witnessed the disgusting adulteration of spirits and the results. I've never met anyone who's actually got 1st hand experience before - it's always been "reportedly".

Ayway, to the original poster ; We do agree that it will concentrate alcohols and you can probably get drunk off it, and like with most hangovers, you may feel like you are dying, but are unlikely to actually do so ! :lol:

Then come back and make a proper pot still - they're not hard to do.
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thecroweater
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by thecroweater »

I know that thread and I don't really want to get into why I think that is junk science except to concede you can engineer a distillation to produce that result but it is not the normal run of things :thumbup:
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by Pikey »

OK mate, well it's certainly counter-intuitive, and I keep cutting the fores and don't get hangovers - just like before. :thumbup:
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Kareltje
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by Kareltje »

There is a lot to be said about methanol, but it is very difficult to get rid of it once you have it in your ferment. It comes with the ethanol during the whole run from fores to the end of tails.
I have several graphs and tables to illustrate that, but without the article in which I found them they are difficult to read.
But on the other hand: the presence of ethanol is a countermeasure and in normal procedures it is not really a problem.

Can you take the still apart and make pictures of that? For in this shape I can not figure out how it works.
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hamshine
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by hamshine »

Looks like an Ice still to me I understand the emotional tie but no cuts = no go in my book Id suggest a pot still and a bunchalota reading.
ETOH.... yes plz
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NZChris
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Re: Raksi Nepal Still

Post by NZChris »

You should be able to get rid of the foreshot by letting it boil for a few minutes until the nasty smells have gone before assembling the head.
Surface temperature at a fixed point could be used to tell you when to cut the heat once experimentation has told you what that temperature is.
If you are paranoid about methanol, don't do high methanol fruit ferments or, if you do, drink it sensibly, not getting smashed, and not drinking it every day as methanol is accumulative to a degree.
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