"Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

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Elrospo
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"Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

"Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine (25 quintals) what is the best thing to do?
The wine is found in 2 resin food barrels the wine has 1.5 years is still
Good to drink, (12-14 vol%)
The most appropriate procedure to distil it so that it does not fail over time,
All the serious tips are welcome,
Tanks
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der wo
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by der wo »

The problem is, when you strip it, you have to store 200-250gal low wines. Probably the resin food barrels are not suitable for low wines. So I would strip until you have enough low wines for a spirit run. Then again and again... Or buy a 250gal ss container for the low wines.
And a few barrels for the brandy.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Elrospo
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

der wo wrote:The problem is, when you strip it, you have to store 200-250gal low wines. Probably the resin food barrels are not suitable for low wines. So I would strip until you have enough low wines for a spirit run. Then again and again... Or buy a 250gal ss container for the low wines.
And a few barrels for the brandy.
I suppose a simple distillation? Then watering up to 40-45% vol if necessary, right?
Heads and tails removed
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der wo
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by der wo »

No. A stripping run. No heads and no tails removed. In this case I would distill until the abv of the total distillate is 40%. That's all. No dilution.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by cranky »

+1 to everything Der Wo said. As he points out the problem is storage of the low wines. Ideally you would have access to a 100 gallon SS container or two. I'm not sure what kind of setup you have. If it is a pot still, I say get busy and start distilling it, distill and collect everything until the average ABV of everything you collect comes to 35-40% make 3 or 4 stripping runs then a spirit run making cuts on the spirit run. If it is a flute it will be a single run. Find some full size wine barrels and fill them up and let them age out. Or make neutral. One problem I have seen with distilling commercial wine is the amount of suphites used in them can cause real problems when distilling but I would still give it a go :D
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

The wine was made from my vineyard,
The sulphites should be under control, how to equip I have nothing for now,
Unfortunately even though I am reading a lot here, I have not yet decided to build a distiller.
Every 30 pages I read on the forum, change project; :?
At the moment i think i make a boka 3 "diameter, 36" height, with keg with spp copper packaging,
One thing I do not understand is that you should also leave the very first part of the distillate (heads) as it is "handy" with any distillation,
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by NZChris »

A Bokakob would be a pathetic little tool for running such a large quantity. Read up on how Cognac is distilled because, so far, nobody has given you good advice on how to run it, or what with.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by der wo »

I would recommend you to start with a potstill.
Later perhaps you will build something else.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

Ok then, I deduced that a simple distillation up to 40-45 vol% should save the product and make it conservative for many months,
Then with the experience I can resume the product and re-distill with the right tools,
And use to make alcohol> 90 ° and then make liqueurs
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by NZChris »

That abv is wasteful of product and flavor, but is fine for making fuel and neutrals.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by bitter »

I'd go at things a little different. You don't need to distill it all right now.. Why not break things down... Distill enough to get your low wines say 35-40% to fill your still.. once there, Distill it and make cuts. This will be a guide for your your take after cuts. Say you have 10G of 40% and you keep 50% that gives you about 3 gallons worth of 62.5%. So do it 5 times and fill a 15g barrel. Repeat again in 6 months... and continue on till your done. In a year try your first batch.. Once you get enough for a full 50+g barrel, let it combine in there and leave it 6 months to a year. I expect you should get a full 50+g of 62.5% from your 700g of wine.

The feints I would make neutral out of and then gin or other flavored drinks.

B
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by NZChris »

Make a list of the types of products you want to make, then look at what equipment you need to make it.

There is a very good chance that if you strip it in a SS boiler, you will be back here asking how to fix the rotten egg smell.

How often will you want to do this? If it's only once, it might be better to get someone with a copper pot still to strip it for you in exchange for some of the product, then finish it in a Boka as and how you need it.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by cranky »

Elrospo wrote:One thing I do not understand is that you should also leave the very first part of the distillate (heads) as it is "handy" with any distillation,
I think something may be getting lost in translation. If I recall correctly you are in Italy and English isn't your first language. The very first part is the fores which contain acetone and some pretty nasty stuff. Fores are thrown away, then you need to learn cuts to know what else to toss and what to keep. Since you have your own vineyard can you legally own a still in your country? 700 gallons is a lot to go through in a 15.5 gallon boiler but it is a good size to learn on but I just ran off 50 or 60 gallons of apple cider and it takes a long time. by my calculations it would take me 54 stripping runs to strip it all. My stripping runs take about 2Hrs each so figuring on time to drain and refill the boiler it would take me about 162 hours to just to get the low wines. Hopefully you have some time to dedicate to the process. Now since you are in Italy and and have a vineyard, do you have some of those cool glass demijohns around? Those would be great for storing low wines.
NZChris wrote:A Bokakob would be a pathetic little tool for running such a large quantity.
I have to disagree with you on that point, sort of. It all depends on what you are after. I don't believe we have been informed of what final product Elrospo wants to make. I know someone who had a 100 gallon boiler with a 3 inch Boka on top and that was a badass neutral making machine. He also made some pretty good high proof plum brandy/vodka with it. Now boiler size limit on this site is 30 gallons at the moment so I won't discuss that boiler but the column certainly wasn't what would be considered a "pathetic little tool" for running off that kind of quantity.

Now as with anything you need to know what final product you are after before you decide on the still. I haven't read every post you (Elrospo) made so you may have mentioned it elsewhere but the final product dictates the method and the still used as well as the aging process.

Now based on this
Elrospo wrote:The most appropriate procedure to distil it so that it does not fail over time,
I believe you are saying you have a limited time to to get this wine distilled before it goes bad and you are wanting to get it into a state of low wines to preserve it until you get time to do whatever you are going to do with it. If that is the case a fast stripping pot still would be a good way to go. Also quick and easy to throw together. Then use glass demijohns or stainless steel to store the low wines until such time as you have time to get around to making final product runs.

Posting same time as NZ Chris
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by NZChris »

A well designed pot still with a preheater could strip that quite quickly and the fuel and time savings would be significant.

I would think that stills in Italy would not be very busy at this time of year.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

cranky wrote:
Elrospo wrote:One thing I do not understand is that you should also leave the very first part of the distillate (heads) as it is "handy" with any distillation,
I think something may be getting lost in translation. If I recall correctly you are in Italy and English isn't your first language. The very first part is the fores which contain acetone and some pretty nasty stuff. Fores are thrown away, then you need to learn cuts to know what else to toss and what to keep. Since you have your own vineyard can you legally own a still in your country? 700 gallons is a lot to go through in a 15.5 gallon boiler but it is a good size to learn on but I just ran off 50 or 60 gallons of apple cider and it takes a long time. by my calculations it would take me 54 stripping runs to strip it all. My stripping runs take about 2Hrs each so figuring on time to drain and refill the boiler it would take me about 162 hours to just to get the low wines. Hopefully you have some time to dedicate to the process. Now since you are in Italy and and have a vineyard, do you have some of those cool glass demijohns around? Those would be great for storing low wines.
NZChris wrote:A Bokakob would be a pathetic little tool for running such a large quantity.
I have to disagree with you on that point, sort of. It all depends on what you are after. I don't believe we have been informed of what final product Elrospo wants to make. I know someone who had a 100 gallon boiler with a 3 inch Boka on top and that was a badass neutral making machine. He also made some pretty good high proof plum brandy/vodka with it. Now boiler size limit on this site is 30 gallons at the moment so I won't discuss that boiler but the column certainly wasn't what would be considered a "pathetic little tool" for running off that kind of quantity.

Now as with anything you need to know what final product you are after before you decide on the still. I haven't read every post you (Elrospo) made so you may have mentioned it elsewhere but the final product dictates the method and the still used as well as the aging process.

Now based on this
Elrospo wrote:The most appropriate procedure to distil it so that it does not fail over time,
I believe you are saying you have a limited time to to get this wine distilled before it goes bad and you are wanting to get it into a state of low wines to preserve it until you get time to do whatever you are going to do with it. If that is the case a fast stripping pot still would be a good way to go. Also quick and easy to throw together. Then use glass demijohns or stainless steel to store the low wines until such time as you have time to get around to making final product runs.

Posting same time as NZ Chris

You have guessed everything, the ideal and build my tool once, better to spend a little more immediately and have a definitive construction, such as a distillation column with removable column /
The limitations I have are:
1) I have to use gas gpl, electrical supply is poor,
2) a single distillation shall not last more than 4-5 hours throughout.

I want to have a product base that can make brandy, liqueur, or boost the wine's alcoholic strength (if needed)
I do not want to keep a flammable basis so no hazardous alcoholic gradations,
I do not want to keep a base that smells of rotten eggs
If "helps" remove the very first part of the distillate at each distillation, I will do so,
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by NZChris »

Do you want to do this every year?
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by der wo »

At least for the neutral alcohol you want to run it twice. So you will never regret to start your distilling career with a potstill, because it's the perfect tool for the first distillation of a double distillation. A potstill doesn't need a 3" connection for the boiler, but 3" it would be a wise decision for future plans with a packed column using the same boiler.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

NZChris wrote:Do you want to do this every year?

If I can make the liquors that I like, I always prefer them,
Because it will all be under my control,
That is always good,
All raw material origin is safe,
I prefer to do everything from myself.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by der wo »

Do you want to sell the product?
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

der wo wrote:At least for the neutral alcohol you want to run it twice. So you will never regret to start your distilling career with a potstill, because it's the perfect tool for the first distillation of a double distillation. A potstill doesn't need a 3" connection for the boiler, but 3" it would be a wise decision for future plans with a packed column using the same boiler.

Ok then I'll do the "simple" distillation,
But heads and tails will keep them separate,
If necessary, add pure water to bring the mixture to 42-45% vol
To keep everything optimally, then experience will increase and decide what to do.

 Here in the area,
The boiler (30/50 liters) keg here sell (new) to 40 euros, copper tube 60mm diameter 2mm thick and the only available for the column,
The stainless steel tube has all the measures
Of own equipment
A lathe 1 meter between the tips
A tape cutter
drill press
Equipment used in goldsmiths
In theory, if I had a gallon
Of copper ssp can do it
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by goose eye »

Why is the wine goin bad?

Ole boys would charge a test sample. See what you got.
1 barrel outfit with a doublein keg you can do it right in 3 days. Long days but knocked down an gone. Big used stainless steel tanks is everywhere. Check a farm auction or such. Old nitrogen tanks an such. Pick em up at scrap prices round here.

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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

Wine by its nature always changes,
It always has changes and if you do not have proper wineries, the risk of getting bad tastes is high,
If no adaptable and expensive measures are taken,
At this moment I have plenty of wine
And try to distill,
Then I see the results,
Thinking of selling liquor is absurd.

Have a distillate that is preserved for a few years
And when I serve I can do it
Alcohol for liqueurs, or else, or drink it directly as brandy
It looks like a good thing

(I'm not sure that google translate has done its duty)
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by der wo »

And the wine? Do you sell the wine?
Perhaps this would be the best idea. Sell the wine and only keep what you can drink (distilled and not distilled).
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by FullySilenced »

Talk to Larry at StillDragon he is a member here...

Not many have run that volume of product... Larry works with PRO distillers and could give you a huge true estimate of what might be your best avenue to take..

happy stillin,

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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by speedfreaksteve »

I think a good and simple option would be to just do a slow pot still distillation which should give you around 45-50% alcohol and then store the end product in wine barrels. Ideally throwing away some of the heads and tails. The barrel will smooth out the rest. I don't know how many oak barrels you would need, but I think it would be a manageable amount.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

speedfreaksteve wrote:I think a good and simple option would be to just do a slow pot still distillation which should give you around 45-50% alcohol and then store the end product in wine barrels. Ideally throwing away some of the heads and tails. The barrel will smooth out the rest. I don't know how many oak barrels you would need, but I think it would be a manageable amount.
More or less we all agree that the product should be distilled at 40-45 vol% to keep it for a long time,
This solves the problem of '
topic,
It may be that a very good brandy comes out without too much effort,
But I do not want to make 150 gallons of brandy,
Puts the product into oak barrels for micro-oxygenation and transfer flavors from wood to product,
Obviously the next thing to do and build my distiller, and try,
Otherwise only uncertainties remain,
With regard to heads and tails,
I will separate them as soon as possible
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by NZChris »

It will keep at much lower than 40% abv.
You can preserve it by raising the abv to 18% and above, like port and sherry, then you only have to distill enough to fortify the rest.
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by goose eye »

If you putin in barrels keep it in the high 50s to low 60s.

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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Elrospo »

Ok, coming to the conclusion who has to store wine, just a simple distillation, if possible to separate heads and tails,
Store in stainless steel barrels,
 Adjusting to 40-45 vol%,
This is the indispensable minimum,
It will be preserved as it is,
No additions to so2
No vitamin c addition
No addition of citric acid
Nothing of anything :thumbup:
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Re: "Put in safety" 700 gallons of wine

Post by Bushman »

I've mentioned this before but here in Washington State, we have a winery that takes their older wine that is close to the end of their shelf life or did not meet their standards after aging and turned it into Brandy. They got a license to distill but the license said they had to distill on the premises. Not sure how they got around it but they hired someone to come with his still and distill at their winery. I understand you wanting to do it yourself and it looks like most have given you some good ideas. I will throw my vote for larger stainless steel containers for storage after stripping runs until you can barrel age. Like Cranky mentioned the type of still you choose is personal but if you want a large run to complete especially a spirit run then you better look at a 4" minimum column diameter.
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