4 weeks and still bubbling

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ausibatla
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4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

I hope I'm posting this in the right place.
I have brewed a lot of beer in the past but am now having a shot at getting bourbon out of corn mash.
I made the mash up about 4 weeks ago. It consisted of 4.4kg of flaked corn, 2.2kg rye, 1.2kg 2 row barley malt and 1.1kg sugar.
After two days I Squeezed all the corn, malt and barley out of it leaving just the liquid and put it in a 30 litre fermenter and added the yeast. After a day or so it had done nothing so I went and added 2kg of honey and another kg of sugar. and it went for a few days and stopped again. 6 days later I made up a yeast starter and away it went again with an SG or 1040. It stopped again so I made up a dried malt extract booster and away she went again. I am continually shaking and stirring the brew to keep it activated. Eventually the SG got down to 1030. Last night I checked it again because it was only putting a bubble out about once a minute so I added more yeast. The recommended temperature for fermentation is around 24 - 26 degrees celsius. When I'm at that temp it's very slow. At the moment it's at 32 and bubbling every 7 seconds. It's usually sitting between 28 - 30 during the day and down to 24 at night with a blanket and heater belt.
Have I stuffed up my wash or could it be the extra honey and sugar I added is crying out for more yeast. It seems every time it stops and I add more yeast away it goes again. This is my first attempt at distilling corn mash oil. so please say exactly what you think. It's costing me a fortune.
I would appreciate any advice. Don't be afraid to be honest. The Army has already desensitised me.
Cheers. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

"Feels" "Flabby" - I'd bung in some citric acid and some nutrient (whatever type you favour) - did you aeriate the wash at the beginning ? what yeast are you using ?

[Edit - did you extract the starch from the cereals - and if so how did you saccarify it ? ]
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ShineRunner »

ausibatla wrote:I hope I'm posting this in the right place.
I have brewed a lot of beer in the past but am now having a shot at getting bourbon out of corn mash.
I made the mash up about 4 weeks ago. It consisted of 4.4kg of flaked corn, 2.2kg rye, 1.2kg 2 row barley malt and 1.1kg sugar.
After two days I Squeezed all the corn, malt and barley out of it leaving just the liquid and put it in a 30 litre fermenter and added the yeast. After a day or so it had done nothing so I went and added 2kg of honey and another kg of sugar. and it went for a few days and stopped again. 6 days later I made up a yeast starter and away it went again with an SG or 1040. It stopped again so I made up a dried malt extract booster and away she went again. I am continually shaking and stirring the brew to keep it activated. Eventually the SG got down to 1030. Last night I checked it again because it was only putting a bubble out about once a minute so I added more yeast. The recommended temperature for fermentation is around 24 - 26 degrees celsius. When I'm at that temp it's very slow. At the moment it's at 32 and bubbling every 7 seconds. It's usually sitting between 28 - 30 during the day and down to 24 at night with a blanket and heater belt.
Have I stuffed up my wash or could it be the extra honey and sugar I added is crying out for more yeast. It seems every time it stops and I add more yeast away it goes again. This is my first attempt at distilling corn mash oil. so please say exactly what you think. It's costing me a fortune.
I would appreciate any advice. Don't be afraid to be honest. The Army has already desensitised me.
Cheers. :lol: :lol: :lol:
What was your mash protocol? OG? PH Right now?

I'm not sure why you keep adding sugar and yeast to it? Why did you add honey? Honey is a very slow fermenting sugar.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

if you didn't mash it (heat it to mash temps and convert the starch but are relying one added sugar to ferment then you should have fermented it on the grain for more flavour and to provide nutrients for the yeast. Adding more yeast sounds like you got yeast dying in that desert and more yeast using the dead ones as tucker. Honey is a natural inhibitor, it can ferment but takes a fair while. I reckon as good advise as any would be to add in a small jar of tomato paste as neuts and give that a good stir.
This stuff is probably going to be quite like on flavour. If you haven't done a cleaning run for you still yet then maybe call this mash your sacrificial alcohol run and use a better recipe/ method next time :thumbup:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

Pikey wrote:"Feels" "Flabby" - I'd bung in some citric acid and some nutrient (whatever type you favour) - did you aeriate the wash at the beginning ? what yeast are you using ?

[Edit - did you extract the starch from the cereals - and if so how did you saccarify it ? ]
Thanks Pikey. (And you other blokes who have given advice)
I put all the mash through cheese cloth and squeezed every ounce of fluid out of it liter by liter.
I finished with 20 liters of wash. The next day I poured it into two seperate containers then into my 30 liter fermenter.
I figured that was aerating it. I then added a 243g (8.5oz) packet of Pure Distilling 'Pemium spirit enhancer which I was told
was the yeast. I gave it a good stir then added a 140g (5oz) packet of Pure Distilling 'Spirit enhancer - Special Activated Carbon'.
No idea what that is but that was what I was told to do. After 24 hours with little or no reaction I figured in needed more sugar
and wanting the honey flavour bourbon I added another 1kg of sugar and 2kg of honey. I was also told I could add that much honey
If I wanted the taste. I was chasing a honey taste and thought I would end up with a higher alcohol content.
After using boiling water to mix the honey and sugar (and letting it cool down) I ended up with 25 liters in
the fermenter. Since then I've been stirring, shaking and adding bakers yeast to keep the air lock bubbling.
At the moment it's sitting on 28 deg celsius and popping 4 times a minute.
I have no idea what the ph is as I don't know how to work it out. I don't know anything about adding citric acids or nutrients
or what they are supposed to do. And what the hell does tomatoe paste do? The SG was 1030 and I haven't checked it since I added the last lot of yeast 3 days ago.
Brewing beer was so much simpler but I'm determined to get this wash into bottled bourbon.
What do you reckon. Just checked the SG again and in 3 days it has only dropped 0.02. It now reads 1028.
Should I add some of the acids and nutrients you mentioned. If the honey is supposed to break down slowly maybe that could be part of the problem.
Appreciate all the help I can get.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers. :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by skow69 »

Pure Distilling 'Pemium spirit enhancer sounds like turbo yeast nutrients. Good for making fuel, but notorious hereabouts for making lousy liquor. I think Spirit enhancer - Special Activated Carbon is something they give you with the turbo yeast to try to clean it up to make it drinkable. If you really want to save this, you really need to know what the pH is and correct it if necessary. Until then you are just pissing in the wind. You can get test strips for aquariums cheap. Tomato paste is used for yeast nutrients but I doubt you need any more nutes. Turbo yeast is overloaded with them and the grain would have provided plenty anyway. And you don't need any more yeast! Although I would aerate it more next time.

But you said "determined to get this wash into bottled bourbon." At this point I doubt that your product will taste much like bourbon. But who knows, maybe it will be great, or (more likely) maybe it will be undrinkable. You can keep beating your head against this wall if you want, but I would recommend you get another fermenter, go to the tried and true section, pick a bourbon, follow the instructions religiously, and start another batch. That way, no matter what else happens, you'll be on the way to making something you can enjoy.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

I live 100km from my nearest brew shop but am going to the town tomorrow
so will pick up some ph strips and see what readings I get. I assume they will tell
me what the ph should be and how to get it right.
Thanks for the advice cobber. I appreciate it.
Cheers.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Still Life »

Take a deep breath, ausibatla, and relax. We're all here to help and I sense your frustration.
No need.
After all the info you've presented, listen to skow69.

Beer is much harder to brew in my opinion.
This bourbon game is going to be so simple once you follow a proven recipe you're going to laugh at this Frankenstein creation once you're done.

I'll let you decide how you want to end your creation based on advice so far.

And when you're ready to start anew, there are two recipes I guarantee will give you terrific results:
Jimbo's Bourbon: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=48126
... or ...
Honey Bear Bourbon in my signature line below.

Remember:
Aerate your mash (just whisk it into a bubbly froth to introduce oxygen)
Get rid of the garbage turbo/enhanced yeasts--- use what Jimbo says in his recipe, or use regular baker's yeast (like Fleischmann's) in the Honey Bear.
Good bourbon doesn't need sugar

We WILL get you to make a good bourbon, or I'll personally double your membership fee back to you.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

Right - you seem to have NOT heated your grain at all ? - to extract the starch you need to get it hot and then add either malt or enzymes as it cools and hold teh temps for a while. - Not even going to try to explain that - you'll have to look it up in the "All grain" (AG) methods.

When you say "Beer making" - using Malt extract - right ? - That just means somebody has done all that for you already and you have the dried or liquid results.

What you seem to be doing is something like UJSSSM - Look it up. Thats a cold method of extracting flavour from grain and using added sugar for the alcohol. - EXcept you've strained it off the grain and thrown that away, which is sad because you can use the same grain several times ! The crux of teh matter is that the SM part means "Sour MAsh", so the fist generation really needs added acid - for 30 litres - say 1 level teaspoon per 5 litres - so 6 level teaspoons - you could use 6 lemons swqueezed in if you like instead, it's much the same thing. Yeast nutrient - Some people use tomato paste instead. If you're in the brew shop, you can get the citric acid there and yeast nutrient (just ask him) or look for Tronozymol or Di-Ammonium Phosphate - again about 1 level teaspoon /5 litres. however as others say this "Spirit booster" (whatever that may be, but it does sound suspiciously "Turbo" to me) should have masses of that sort of stuff in it. A little more won't hurt.

That "carbon stuff" is supposed to be used after the "Turbo" ferment, or possibly after the distillation - I'm not sure, we don't use it - but you don't just chuck it in at the beginning. I'm seriously doubting the ability of "the guy in thebrew shop here", especially if it's him who told you to soak the grain, strain it off and add 1.1 kg of sugar for 30 litres ! - mostly they just want to flog you the dearest "still spirits" stuff they can and as others say we don't hold much respect for that "Turbo stuff".

I'm trying to get a handle on how much actual fermentable sugar you've put in so far, and it looks to be about 4 kg (taking honey at 50% - just my guess) what do you make it ?

So I think you need from the brew shop 200 g citric acid, 200 g nutrient, 100 g decent wine yeast, ph papers if you like. Your temperatures may be on the low side for bakers or Turbo - but they should be ok and a decent wine yeast would be happy as a proverbial "pig in sh*t" around there.

Also take a look at UJSSM - that's a sour mash and is a good starting point - I used "Flaked Maize" for my first ever ferment to distil, in a similar recipe. Another BIG fermenter will allow you to get another batch going whilst you try to rescue this one.

Now you say you're trying to go towards a "Bourbon" - what type of still do you have ?

atb

p
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by skow69 »

ausibatla wrote:I live 100km from my nearest brew shop but am going to the town tomorrow
so will pick up some ph strips and see what readings I get. I assume they will tell
me what the ph should be and how to get it right.
Thanks for the advice cobber. I appreciate it.
Cheers.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ShineRunner »

Pikey- I don't quite understand why you're advocating to add citric acid? He had no idea what his ph is and citric acid could be the exact opposite of what he needs..

Nutrients, maybe. More yeast, maybe, but probably not.

Not trying to get into an argument with you, but the best way for the OP to learn what's wrong is to systematically test things and figure out where they went wrong. Just throwing a bunch of stuff at it may fix it, but will likely just repeat the problem again next time.

Ausibatia- you still didn't tell us your mash protocol. Seems like you didn't mash (heat) it at all? Agree with skow- you're probably not going to get a honey bourbon out of this one anyways, but maybe. Did you clean your still out yet or is this your first run? If it's your first, consider it an expensive cleaning run and chalk it up to lessons learned.

SR
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

ShineRunner wrote:Pikey- I don't quite understand why you're advocating to add citric acid? He had no idea what his ph is and citric acid could be the exact opposite of what he needs..

Nutrients, maybe. More yeast, maybe, but probably not.

Not trying to get into an argument ...........

SR
No argument offered either, but I shall try to explain - "citric acid" - 30 odd years of winemaking from all sorts of stuff is why. If in doubt always add citric acid (or a lemon) and a teabag + (more recently) yeast nutrient - we used to chuck in grape juice or raisins before they were "waxed". I have never had a must fail through being over acid and only bought a ph meter a few years back to verify that my very first "Sour mash" ph was low enough to work properly. prior to that I never tested it. It does seem now that we can go "over acid" with washes - where multiple generations are extracted using backset, but I very much doubt it on any first generation.

Tea bag - not necessary - tannin is not important for distilling, it's a "Balance issue" in wines.

Citric acid - yeast likes acid (enzymes for starch conversion do not) VERY few musts are acid heavy - mostly the other way and a little acid can do no harm if the wash is already over acid - it can do an amazing amount of good if acid deficient ! - If it's over acid, I'd be interested to know where the acid has come from in his list of ingredients. If it does not work and ph test shows it to be over acid (say down in the 3's or even 4's perhaps)- well that can soon be rectified

Note he seems to be doing something akin to a weak "sour mash" and as stated that relies on - well - "Being sour". Many recipes of all types recommend "Backset" from a previous - or "Dunder" which both are acid. Similar principle to my "nutrient" observation - That stuff he has put in has almost certainly got loads of nutrient in it but a little more won't hurt.

[Edit - it may trun out not to be necessary, but he's 60 miles from the brew shop and going there tomorrow - sooner or later he will need it and he might as well get it and give it a try when he's there. I'm not sure his ferment HAS actually stalled - activity seems to be temperature related to an extent and I'm a little unsure what effect the early addition of that "Carbon" crap is having on the yeasts he already has in there either - it's meant to entrap "impurities" - it may see yeast as an "impurity". However little to be done about that atm unless we say to him "rack it off the lees and pitch a decent yeast ? ]

[Edit to Ausibatia - You keep "stirrin' and shakin'" your wash - When you do that there is CO2 dissolved in your wash from the yeast activity, which is released when you stir it - it's only the excess which comes up normally as bubbles in your airlock. Try NOT shakin' and stirrin' for a few days and see if the stream becomes more regular. Bear in mind it won't bubble much at all until the wash is saturated with CO2.

What sort of still are you going to put it through ? ]
Last edited by Pikey on Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

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Pikey wrote:
No argument offered either, but I shall try to explain - "citric acid" - 30 odd years of winemaking from all sorts of stuff is why. If in doubt always add citric acid (or a lemon) and a teabag + (more recently) yeast nutrient - we used to chuck in grape juice or raisins before they were "waxed". I have never had a must fail through being over acid and only bought a ph meter a few years back to verify that my very first "Sour mash" ph was low enough to work properly. prior to that I never tested it. It does seem now that we can go "over acid" with washes - where multiple generations are extracted using backset, but I very much doubt it on any first generation.
Also not trying to argue but from one winemaker to another - It seems like the blind leading the blind. My practice is to figure what the problem is and correct from there, we use citric to neutralize caustic in the cleaning process.

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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

Tomato paste just happens to have almost everything that yeast needs is all but if ya using some enhanced turbo krud that's probably not ya issues. The other thing I see some guys have recommended Flieschmanns yeast. Don't look for it you won't find this American product, instead look for Lowens bakers yeast in the red can (not the gold one) and this yeast is great with anything that has sugar added, perfect for molasses and not that bad on AG either. Anything but fruit really.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

Oldvine Zin wrote:
....... It seems like the blind leading the blind. My practice is to figure what the problem is and correct from there,

.......
OVZ
We await your conclusion with bated breath - 8)
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Pikey wrote:
Oldvine Zin wrote:
....... It seems like the blind leading the blind. My practice is to figure what the problem is and correct from there,

.......
OVZ
We await your conclusion with bated breath - 8)
:think: Bad mashing technique combined with turbo .... :thumbdown: :wink:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

Oldvine Zin wrote:
Pikey wrote:
Oldvine Zin wrote:
....... It seems like the blind leading the blind. My practice is to figure what the problem is and correct from there,

.......
OVZ
We await your conclusion with bated breath - 8)
:think: Bad mashing technique combined with turbo .... :thumbdown: :wink:
Bad mashing is obvious, since I asked about it. However he has something which can be fermented - N'est ce pas ? [edit ; Turbo yeast - somewhat less so ]
Oldvine Zin wrote:
....... It seems like the blind leading the blind. My practice is to figure what the problem is and correct from there,

.......
OVZ
And the correction ?
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by shadylane »

Let's start at the being, for those of Us that are sobriety challenged :roll:
How much water and fermentable sugars :?:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

shadylane wrote:Let's start at the being, for those of Us that are sobriety challenged :roll:
How much water and fermentable sugars :?:
He's already said 20 litres wash and seems a little over 4 kg fermentables, (see my post above) but he's not going to be able to answer that.

[Edit; a while later - he now has the wash at 25 Litres, just stopped reading too early :) ]
Last edited by Pikey on Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by shadylane »

And 7.8 kg of starches that the malt is slowly converting :lol:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

shadylane wrote:And 7.8 kg of starches that the malt is slowly converting :lol:
What malt is converting that ?

[Edit; and where is your 7.8 kg starch coming from ? ] :?
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by shadylane »

ausibatla wrote:I made the mash up about 4 weeks ago. It consisted of 4.4kg of flaked corn, 2.2kg rye, 1.2kg 2 row barley malt and 1.1kg sugar.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

OK after reading your posts over and pure distillings product range I don't believe you added yeast. The same company does sell a yeast but as they are the manifacturers of the pure distilling ( formally ultra pure) still its fair to assume that yeast best used on a sugar wash. You may just have some krusty wild yeast that in a higher abv is barely marking time. Maybe just go to the supermarket and but some lowens and add say 50grams
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

skow69 wrote:Pure Distilling 'Pemium spirit enhancer sounds like turbo yeast nutrients. Good for making fuel, but notorious hereabouts for making lousy liquor. I think Spirit enhancer - Special Activated Carbon is something they give you with the turbo yeast to try to clean it up to make it drinkable. If you really want to save this, you really need to know what the pH is and correct it if necessary. Until then you are just pissing in the wind. You can get test strips for aquariums cheap. Tomato paste is used for yeast nutrients but I doubt you need any more nutes. Turbo yeast is overloaded with them and the grain would have provided plenty anyway. And you don't need any more yeast! Although I would aerate it more next time.

But you said "determined to get this wash into bottled bourbon." At this point I doubt that your product will taste much like bourbon. But who knows, maybe it will be great, or (more likely) maybe it will be undrinkable. You can keep beating your head against this wall if you want, but I would recommend you get another fermenter, go to the tried and true section, pick a bourbon, follow the instructions religiously, and start another batch. That way, no matter what else happens, you'll be on the way to making something you can enjoy.
skow69, thanks for the advice and everybody else also. It really is appreciated.
I did a ph test and it is somewhere between 4 and 5. It's not the colour of 4 or 5 so I'm guessing about 4.5.
realising that the stuff I had purchased was not going to help I threw in about 40 grams of wine nutrient while stirring it.
It started chucking bubbles through the airlock at about 10 second intervals as soon as I had screwed the lid back on the fermenter.

Some people on the forum have summised that I didn't boil the grain.
I used 4.4 kg of corn flakes and boiled them for about an hour. It got that stiff I couldn't thin it with more water
so poured half into another container and stirred two different 17 liter pots on the wifes gas cook top. I let it cool for a couple of hours
then added 2.2 kg rye and stirred that in then added 1.2 kg 2 row barley malt and 1.1 kg sugar. It then started thinning down but was difficult with the two
large pots so I poured both into a 40 liter container and let it sit overnight. The next day I put then whole lot through cheese cloth, wringing
every drop of moisture out of the mash and ending up with 20 liters of liquid (or beer or wort or whatever it's called). I kept about a quarter of the squeexed dry mash and put it in the freezer for the next batch. I then added that yeast I mentioned.
I had been told I could add a couple of kilos of honey if I wanted a honey flavour so as it hadn't started going mad after 48 hours I thought
I would add the honey and another kilo of sugar to try and get it going. After mixing the honey and sugar in hot water I let it cool then poured it in
with the rest, giving me a total of 25 liters. And I've been playing around for the past 3.5 weeks just adding more yeast and shaking the
fermenter or stirring. It always seems to react best at between 28 - 32 degrees celsius.
Cheers.
Last edited by ausibatla on Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

thecroweater wrote:OK after reading your posts over and pure distillings product range I don't believe you added yeast. The same company does sell a yeast but as they are the manifacturers of the pure distilling ( formally ultra pure) still its fair to assume that yeast best used on a sugar wash. You may just have some krusty wild yeast that in a higher abv is barely marking time. Maybe just go to the supermarket and but some lowens and add say 50grams
Thanks for that info, mate. The yeast I have been adding is the same one you show on your thread.
I've just tested the ph and it's between 4 and 5 so just dumped some wine nutrient into it and it bubbling through the airlock avery 10 seconds.
Don't know if that's good or bad but it's more than it was.
Cheers.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

Pikey wrote:Right - you seem to have NOT heated your grain at all ? - to extract the starch you need to get it hot and then add either malt or enzymes as it cools and hold teh temps for a while. - Not even going to try to explain that - you'll have to look it up in the "All grain" (AG) methods.

When you say "Beer making" - using Malt extract - right ? - That just means somebody has done all that for you already and you have the dried or liquid results.

What you seem to be doing is something like UJSSSM - Look it up. Thats a cold method of extracting flavour from grain and using added sugar for the alcohol. - EXcept you've strained it off the grain and thrown that away, which is sad because you can use the same grain several times ! The crux of teh matter is that the SM part means "Sour MAsh", so the fist generation really needs added acid - for 30 litres - say 1 level teaspoon per 5 litres - so 6 level teaspoons - you could use 6 lemons swqueezed in if you like instead, it's much the same thing. Yeast nutrient - Some people use tomato paste instead. If you're in the brew shop, you can get the citric acid there and yeast nutrient (just ask him) or look for Tronozymol or Di-Ammonium Phosphate - again about 1 level teaspoon /5 litres. however as others say this "Spirit booster" (whatever that may be, but it does sound suspiciously "Turbo" to me) should have masses of that sort of stuff in it. A little more won't hurt.

That "carbon stuff" is supposed to be used after the "Turbo" ferment, or possibly after the distillation - I'm not sure, we don't use it - but you don't just chuck it in at the beginning. I'm seriously doubting the ability of "the guy in thebrew shop here", especially if it's him who told you to soak the grain, strain it off and add 1.1 kg of sugar for 30 litres ! - mostly they just want to flog you the dearest "still spirits" stuff they can and as others say we don't hold much respect for that "Turbo stuff".

I'm trying to get a handle on how much actual fermentable sugar you've put in so far, and it looks to be about 4 kg (taking honey at 50% - just my guess) what do you make it ?

So I think you need from the brew shop 200 g citric acid, 200 g nutrient, 100 g decent wine yeast, ph papers if you like. Your temperatures may be on the low side for bakers or Turbo - but they should be ok and a decent wine yeast would be happy as a proverbial "pig in sh*t" around there.

Also take a look at UJSSM - that's a sour mash and is a good starting point - I used "Flaked Maize" for my first ever ferment to distil, in a similar recipe. Another BIG fermenter will allow you to get another batch going whilst you try to rescue this one.

Now you say you're trying to go towards a "Bourbon" - what type of still do you have ?

atb

p
Read my latest post about the method and ingredients on skow69 post.
It's too much to repeat. But I have a reflux still which sits on top of a 30 liter boiler.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

OK - It's a shame you didn't give us some of that information earlier.
Well I guess you live and learn.

atb

p
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skow69
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by skow69 »

Lots of stuff to add up here.

So you had 6.6 kg of unmalted grain in approximately 20 liters (net) of water when you added 1.2 kg malt at what temperature? This is an important question. Too hot and you denature the malt or make a bunch of long dextrins that won't ferment--good for beer but just wasted grain for us. Too cold and it will convert very slowly except yours stopped when you cheese clothed out the grains. Goldie Locks likes hers around 145f (63C).

So, big picture, we're mashing 7.8 kg (17 lb) grain in ~ 20 liters (5.3 gal) of water. That's 3.2 lb/gal. That's a pretty tall order for most anybody. The common rule of thumb calls for 2 lb/gal.

Now if we use John Palmer's handy dandy formula we see we need 215 points of diastatic yadda yadda which means we need 7.2 lbs (3.3 kg) of malt to convert it all. We got less than half that. Sorry, but I've been using store bought enzymes for so long I can't even remember the rule of thumb for that.

I'm thinking your mash didn't have much hope from the get go. Like Pres. Trump says, "Nobody knew it could be that complicated!" Right? Nobody told you there would be math. You're getting a lot of education real fast here, ausi, so don't get discouraged. We all started some time and we all screwed up our first mash or 2 or 5. It's required failure to prove you are worthy. You'll get it in time.

Didja start that second ferment yet? You've got more patience than I do if you keep screwing with this one.

EDIT: I usually screw up that ppg part, so somebody please run the numbers and see if I am in the ballpark. Thanks.
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Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

skow69 wrote:Lots of stuff to add up here.

So you had 6.6 kg of unmalted grain in approximately 20 liters (net) of water when you added 1.2 kg malt at what temperature? This is an important question. Too hot and you denature the malt or make a bunch of long dextrins that won't ferment--good for beer but just wasted grain for us. Too cold and it will convert very slowly except yours stopped when you cheese clothed out the grains. Goldie Locks likes hers around 145f (63C).

So, big picture, we're mashing 7.8 kg (17 lb) grain in ~ 20 liters (5.3 gal) of water. That's 3.2 lb/gal. That's a pretty tall order for most of us. The common rule of thumb calls for 2 lb/gal.

Now if we use John Palmer's formula we see we need 215 points of diastatic yadda yadda which means we need 7.2 lbs (3.3 kg) of malt to convert it all. We got less than half that.

I'm thinking your mash didn't have much hope from the get go. Like Pres. Trump says, "Nobody knew it could be that complicated!" You're getting a lot of education real fast, so don't get discouraged. We all started some time and we all screwed up our first mash or 2 or 5. It's required failure to prove you are worthy. You'll get it in time.

Didja start that second ferment yet? You've got more patience than I do if you keep screwing with this one.
The original ingredients were half of what I used. I found out that the reflux still I bought stripped the flavour from grain alcohol.
When I queried this the bloke told me to double the amount of ingredients so I did, thinking somebody who worked in the
business should know what he was talking about. It would appear I was wrong.
I haven't started a second batch yet as I don't have the ingredients or the equipment so will stuff around with this for a while and
see what happens. I might even distill it just for the practise. But I can tell you this for a fact, it' getting bloody expensive.
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Still Life
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Still Life »

Home brew shops are in business to push stock.
Often with the poorest advice on spirit making.
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