4 weeks and still bubbling

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still_stirrin
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by still_stirrin »

Good job ausibatia.

As you probably know by now, "patience" is the hardest thing to bottle. Ferments can go fast, or slow. A lot of factors as have been pointed out....temperature (and temperature stability), nutrients, fermentable to non-fermentable ratio, OG (alcohol potential), pH of the wash/mash, yeast strain selection and viability, areation (oxygen for yeast budding at the onset)...just to name a few.

I've brewed all grain beers for years. But when brewing to distill, the processes are (somewhat) different. The intent when the goal is a distilled spirit is maximum fermentability, and that DOES NOT mean highest alcohol potential. Too high OG will/can stress the yeast into producing constituents less than desireable in your craft spirit.

The LHBS (local homebrew store) is the worst purveyor of misinformation along these lines. Their business is to sell "stuff", whether or not you really need it in your journey. The members here are worlds better (knowledge, experience, and skill) than another slick-talking sales pitch. But it's easy to get misdirected when you're new (and eager) to "make your own". So, read, read, read....and then read some more.

So, hang in there...be patient, and soon you'll be stocking up your casks. I suggest picking a Tried & True recipe and working with it until you know the process and the product. Learn the "quirks" of your equipment, from mashing, fermenting, through distilling and aging.

A final suggestion would be to learn how to use the HDGoogle search function...a very powerful tool. Since just about every question has been asked and answered many times, seeking and finding the respective threads can be the key to unlock success. There is a hotlink to the HDGoogle "how to" in my signature.

Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
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ausibatla
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

still_stirrin wrote:Good job ausibatia.

As you probably know by now, "patience" is the hardest thing to bottle. Ferments can go fast, or slow. A lot of factors as have been pointed out....temperature (and temperature stability), nutrients, fermentable to non-fermentable ratio, OG (alcohol potential), pH of the wash/mash, yeast strain selection and viability, areation (oxygen for yeast budding at the onset)...just to name a few.

I've brewed all grain beers for years. But when brewing to distill, the processes are (somewhat) different. The intent when the goal is a distilled spirit is maximum fermentability, and that DOES NOT mean highest alcohol potential. Too high OG will/can stress the yeast into producing constituents less than desireable in your craft spirit.

The LHBS (local homebrew store) is the worst purveyor of misinformation along these lines. Their business is to sell "stuff", whether or not you really need it in your journey. The members here are worlds better (knowledge, experience, and skill) than another slick-talking sales pitch. But it's easy to get misdirected when you're new (and eager) to "make your own". So, read, read, read....and then read some more.

So, hang in there...be patient, and soon you'll be stocking up your casks. I suggest picking a Tried & True recipe and working with it until you know the process and the product. Learn the "quirks" of your equipment, from mashing, fermenting, through distilling and aging.

A final suggestion would be to learn how to use the HDGoogle search function...a very powerful tool. Since just about every question has been asked and answered many times, seeking and finding the respective threads can be the key to unlock success. There is a hotlink to the HDGoogle "how to" in my signature.

Be safe. Be responsible. And be discrete.
ss
Thanks for that info, cobber. I'm learning fast that you have to learn.
I'm going to put this brew aside and just watch it and buy another fermenter
next time I go into town and try that Honey recipe. I might try and exchange
my reflux still for an Alembic Pot Still. Will that do a better job than the reflux?
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

Not a better job, a different job. That reflux still you got will do a fine job of making neutral spirit but its a one trick pony. I'd keep the still its a use full trick but a pot still will give you flavoured drinks. Suit yourself but pot stills are not tricky to make just pot and liebig is so easy even one of me ex raeme mates could make one (maybe), hell even I did it.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

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ausibatla wrote:
Still Life wrote:BTW, ausibatla. That's a pretty cool avatar.
Makes me think if I had a family coat of arms it'd be a straight jacket tied in back.
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Our motto is UBIQUE (pronounced yoo - beek) which is Latin for, "Everywhere".
Google RAE Corps badge for better clarity.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

Can anybody tell me why my fermenter is sucking air in through the airlock.
It was doing this the other day so I added some more yeast, about a desert
spoon full and some wine nutrient, about 30g, and it kick started it but that was only
3 days ago and now it's doing it again. I now have 26l in the fermenter. I'm trying to
keep it going because the SG had dropped to 1020. So it is dropping.
All advice greatly accepted and acted upon if possible.
Cheers. :problem: :problem: :problem:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by still_stirrin »

ausibatla wrote:Can anybody tell me why my fermenter is sucking air in through the airlock?
I've seen this happen as the wort cools, especially if it was put into a fermenter slightly warm, or at least warmer than the ambient temperature. If the headspace is significant, the cooling "vacuum" would be more pronounced as well. The liquid doesn't shrink much as it cools, but the air above the liquid will, and that will suck an airlock back into the fermenter.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by der wo »

ausibatla wrote:Can anybody tell me why my fermenter is sucking air in through the airlock.
How does it smell? Vinegar?
I only had once an air sucking airlock. This was a vinegar infected grain mash.
"4 weeks and still bubbling", perhaps you better had distill a few weeks ago. All the opening the bucket and waiting while there is only little CO² production ruined it perhaps. But if it only has a slight odor of vinegar, I would run it, perhaps it turns out well.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by der wo »

BTW to make vinegar from alcohol needs air. It's an oxidation.
C2H6O (Ethanol) and C2H4O2 (Vinegar). Vinegar has more than twice oxygen.
And the specific gravity of vinegar (1.05) is much higher than the of ethanol (0.79). So the mash gets heavier when producing vinegar from ethanol. You should notice an increasing SG with your hydrometer. Did you? And it's not possible to rise the weight of a mash without adding something. The reaction consumes oxygen and the underpressure sucks air into the fermenter.

Ethanol + Oxygen --> Vinegar + water
C2H6O + O2 --> C2H4O2 + H2O
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

Thanks for that info der wo - does a vinegar infection have bubbles rising like a true ferment ? I have one which doesn't seem to be dropping but is definitely "fermenting" as the top is moving about just like it does normally. It's difficult to say because the hydrometer rises just as it settles - like CO2 bubbles forming on it. Not panicking atm, but it does seem to be taking a long time.

I've seen that siucking back in the evenings on a slowish ferment as the air temperature cools. Cool air takes up less space and it sucks air back into the fermenter.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

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Pikey wrote:Thanks for that info der wo - does a vinegar infection have bubbles rising like a true ferment ? I have one which doesn't seem to be dropping but is definitely "fermenting" as the top is moving about just like it does normally. It's difficult to say because the hydrometer rises just as it settles - like CO2 bubbles forming on it. Not panicking atm, but it does seem to be taking a long time. Generally vinegar bacterias doesn't produce gases. But perhaps while they work there is still some yeast producing alcohol and CO²? Where do you think that you have a vinegar infection? Only because the SG doesn't drop further? In my experience the SG drops fast at the beginning of the fermentation. Later when it slows down, there is almost no change visible.

I've seen that siucking back in the evenings on a slowish ferment as the air temperature cools. Cool air takes up less space and it sucks air back into the fermenter. Yes. But I think in such cases the wash is ready to run since a long time.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

der wo wrote:
Pikey wrote:Thanks for that info der wo - does a vinegar infection have bubbles rising like a true ferment ? I have one which doesn't seem to be dropping but is definitely "fermenting" as the top is moving about just like it does normally. It's difficult to say because the hydrometer rises just as it settles - like CO2 bubbles forming on it. Not panicking atm, but it does seem to be taking a long time. Generally vinegar bacterias doesn't produce gases. But perhaps while they work there is still some yeast producing alcohol and CO²? Where do you think that you have a vinegar infection? Only because the SG doesn't drop further? In my experience the SG drops fast at the beginning of the fermentation. Later when it slows down, there is almost no change visible.It definitely had an infection at the start - it was cold and had a white skin with large bubbles - much like what I 've seen labelled as "lacto" on threads, so I was not perturbed. The ferment proper did not start for a while due to temperature I think and when it did warm up (I inserted heater), the ferment has not been tumultuous as previous ones have been, but was a reasonable "heaving" and still is. It has been going several weeks now with an aquarium heater at 23 degrees as normal (EC1118) There is no noticeable flavour of vinegar, or the "Ethyl acetate" which I think tends to come before. No noticeable smell either, just quite a sharp "nose" if I stick my head too far in the barrel (220 litre wash). I was a little disturbed my "lactic" ferment may have turned into "butyric" - but as I,ve never had an infection before, I don't know. The only reason I asked you about "vinegar" was the SG holding. I'll go do it again later, but obviously SG within the ferment can only give a vague indication.

I've seen that siucking back in the evenings on a slowish ferment as the air temperature cools. Cool air takes up less space and it sucks air back into the fermenter. Yes. But I think in such cases the wash is ready to run since a long time.
I ususally ferment to dryness before I run and these were wine musts I was talking about - so close to ready - yes
[Edit - been and tried it again and at first it registered 1.04 as soon as it settled, so I took it out, wiped the bubbles off and put it back in but let it go at the 1.02 mark, where it stayed for a few seconds before starting to rise again up to the 1.06 mark and took off across the top of the barrel - moved about 250 mm in around 30 seconds, so someting is going on in tehre ! - Stopped worrying now, it'll get there soon.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

still_stirrin wrote:
ausibatla wrote:Can anybody tell me why my fermenter is sucking air in through the airlock?
I've seen this happen as the wort cools, especially if it was put into a fermenter slightly warm, or at least warmer than the ambient temperature. If the headspace is significant, the cooling "vacuum" would be more pronounced as well. The liquid doesn't shrink much as it cools, but the air above the liquid will, and that will suck an airlock back into the fermenter.
ss
Temp is between 28deg c at night and 34c during the day.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

ausibatla wrote:
......Temp is between 28deg c at night and 34c during the day.
As I said - Ive seen that happen in teh evening - WHat time of day is it sucking back ?
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

I thing its time to call it done and see where ya at. I don't think it will be really bad refluxed but it well maybe going to go backward fast. If it was a healthy ferment that shouldn't happen and sucking air in is begging for an infection. Running it and run it now :thumbup:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

Some photos, I hope and a bit of info.
The first is a photo of the wort (beer,mash, whatever) it is clean with no sign of infection
and tastes like a sweet, weak, cheap, red wine.

Specific gravity is as shown at 1030. It was down to 1020 but that could have had something
to do with the temperature. This reading was taken at 24 deg. Celsius.

Fermenter temperature shows the temp at 28c - 30c during the day. In the morning after having the
heater belt on it gets as high as 35c. It gets down to 10c in my workshop.

Fermenter heater shows how it's kept warm. It has this small doona wrapped around it
all the time now the days are getting cooler and at night I turn the heater belt on.

What's the verdict?
Attachments
The wort.JPG
Specific gravity.JPG
Fermenter temperature.JPG
Fermenter heater 1.jpg
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by der wo »

The sweetness you taste are probably unfermentable sugars.
You were asked about the mashing protocol details, but never mentioned the temperature when you added the malt. So I think this detail seems not important to you. Also your malt content is low. And the all in all effort and knowledge sounds low too. Bad mashing -> low yield. Strip it and read through the tried and true AG recipes before trying the next one.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

der wo wrote:The sweetness you taste are probably unfermentable sugars.
You were asked about the mashing protocol details, but never mentioned the temperature when you added the malt. So I think this detail seems not important to you. Also your malt content is low. And the all in all effort and knowledge sounds low too. Bad mashing -> low yield. Strip it and read through the tried and true AG recipes before trying the next one.

Thanks for your input "der wo".
I've been asked a lot of things and have answered as best I can. It's all
new to me and all the details are important. I've followed the recipe I
was given to the letter. Unfortunately it was incorrect so I'm trying to
make the best of a bad situation. Before adding the malt I let the mash
cool to room temperature. At the time around 24c.
I just went and threw another 150 grams of light malt straight into the brew and
gave it a good stir. I've tried everything else and don't care anymore.
If it works it works. If it doesn't it will go down the sink.
Cheers. :( :( :(
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Swedish Pride »

noooooooooooooooo.
don't throw it in the sink, run it.
some booze is better than none, i bet it will taste quite nice too with all that malt in there
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by der wo »

+1 SP, don't throw it away. Strip it. I don't think it will taste bad. Be careful with scorching.

The malt at room temp was the mistake No.1 I think. All recipes require something between 50 and 65°C.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by shadylane »

Hells of fire
Don't throw it away, run it and tell us what it tastes like
If you throw it away, all our time helping you will have been wasted
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by der wo »

Yes, after all the posts I think it's our mash, not yours.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

nothing ventured......
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

der wo wrote:Yes, after all the posts I think it's our mash, not yours.
Yes I agree - WE do care ausi !

You do have some alcohol. We want to know how much and how it tastes - You do need the experience to improve on next time.

JFDI man ! :lol:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

Pikey wrote:
der wo wrote:Yes, after all the posts I think it's our mash, not yours.
Yes I agree - WE do care ausi !

You do have some alcohol. We want to know how much and how it tastes - You do need the experience to improve on next time.

JFDI man ! :lol:

To everybody who has replied with advice and help, thank you.
I'm of to USA, Canada and Alaska in a couple of weeks so I think
I will just let it be until I get back about June 25th. I'll do an SG reading
then and regardless of what it says I'll run it and see what happens.
Cheers. :clap: :thumbup: :wave:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

Reckon I'd run it first. Got a couple of mates in the states having a blast, I was over there last year had a great time and met quite a few guys from the forums .
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

Pikey wrote:
Pikey wrote:OK - It's a shame you didn't give us some of that information earlier.
Well I guess you live and learn.

atb

p
Ok well I'm still a bit annoyed that I spent so much time and effort trying to help you when you hadn't made the effort to help yourself by telling us properly what you did.

However, it seems fairly simple now - You seem to have got some "conversion" and my suspicion is there's way too much sugar in there for a bread yeast - dilute it - say another 10-15-20 litres of plain water and wait for it to finish.
Edit:
Pikey,
I finally got a hold of a 20L bucket, drilled a hole in the lid and fitted a rubber grummet in it and fitted an air lock. Gave the whole thing a good wash with detergent, rinsed it then added some pink sterilizer, ran it all around the inside, rinsed it and drained 10L from my original fermenter which held 25L and put that in the new fermenter. I then boiled up 20L of water for 3 or so minutes, waited till it cooled to 36 deg Celsius and added 10L liters to each fermenter. So I now have a fermenter with 20L and another with 25L. I then sprinkled some yeast on top of both and stirred it in. Both were venting through the airlock when I left them so it will be interesting to see what's happening in the morning. I leave for the USA on Friday and won't be back until the 26th. June. I also got myself an Alembic pot still to sit on top of my 29 liter boiler and when I get back I will be putting the wash through it no matter what.
By the way, when I'm in Canada I'm going to see if I can get some of that honey malt that we can't get in Australia.
Cheers.
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by Pikey »

Hi aus, been while :)

Please check with your customs people before bringing malt in through customs, I'm not sure how it works but I know your customs are a bit strict on "seeds" and "food".

Hope it works great for you and look forward to hearing from you again in June :thumbup:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by thecroweater »

It will be considered a biosecurity threat, save the money and effort I think
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

Pikey wrote:Hi aus, been while :)

Please check with your customs people before bringing malt in through customs, I'm not sure how it works but I know your customs are a bit strict on "seeds" and "food".

Hope it works great for you and look forward to hearing from you again in June :thumbup:
Just came back from the workshop and both fermenters are going crazy.
Could be a success after all. Should have taken your advice earlier.
Cheers. :clap:
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Re: 4 weeks and still bubbling

Post by ausibatla »

thecroweater wrote:It will be considered a biosecurity threat, save the money and effort I think
I will check with customs before I leave just to be sure.
As you say, "Save the money". I wouldn't be happy if I
bought it then had it confiscated on my return to Australia.
Cheers. :thumbup:
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