Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

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ISEN AG
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Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by ISEN AG »

I had a bit of difficulty running my plated (pro cap) column. I did run a vinegar & sacrificial run with my setup (went off w/o a hitch) and was finally ready to run a 20 gal batch of birdwatchers but it never was quite right. First I loaded the plates and let it equalize for an hour but the first thing I noticed was that all the plates except for the top one were foggy even after the hour. I let it go for another hour but they never cleared up so I just started to pull product. I eventually collected 2.67 gallons of neutral but the problem I encountered was that the first gallon looked like apple juice, the 2nd looked like someone took a leak in it and the 3rd had a tinge of yellow but looked relatively clear. My new setup is a 4" column w/6 plates & a 20" extension (only used 6" of copper mesh). Heres what I have gone through:

Burned mash? Heated it up at the same amperage I used in my previous setup.
Copper mesh not cleaned completely? Maybe, but why didn't it affect the sacrificial run.
Two new stainless parts w/o sacrificial run? Washed them in the dishwasher 3 times then with vinegar and vodka before I used them.

Coming up blank on anything else and still can't explain why the sight glasses were still fogged up but I was collecting 90 plus percent alcohol. Any ideas why I am having these problems?
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HDNB
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by HDNB »

the yellow tinge sounds like a puke to me. not sure why sights were foggy though. mine stay clear all the way down to a 20% distillate.

i'm to about 35 runs with stainless and pro caps and i have a bitch of a time with the whole setup. i find it very frustrating and i'm growing weary of trying to find ways to overcome the faults or flaws. I'm damn near ready to go back to a copper pipe.

So far i have found about 35 different things to not like, but i haven't puked it yet so i guess you are burning the candle from the other end.
I finally quit drinking for good.

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bluefish_dist
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by bluefish_dist »

How much power are you running? Also any chance the mesh is holding liquid? I have got a slight tint on whiskey runs when running low reflux ratio and running hard, say 6kw + on a 4".

Usually I find the windows are clear at the start, then get foggy from the bottom up as tails get pushed up from the boiler. So if you are fogging I would guess that the mesh might be holding the reflux up instead of letting it go back down the column. Consider running without the mesh, see how that runs, then add packing in after you know the plates run fine.

I have run pro caps and they seemed to handle more power than regular bubble caps, but less than sieve plates.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by ISEN AG »

HDNB, With puking wouldn't all the plates be foaming to the point it would almost look like the plates were flooding? My plates aren't overfilled compared to my sacrificial run which went smoothly.

bluefish_dist, I am running a 5500w element @ 16 amps which should be about 3500 watts. This is the point were the I just overpower the deflagmator. I guess there is a possibility the mesh is holding the reflux but it does seem to be draining into the top plate. On the sacrificial run I didn't have the fogging problem but the bottom plates did fog up at the tail end of the run. The 2nd time they started foggy and stayed foggy.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by frunobulax »

Did you strip this wash? I think plated columns are great for 1 run and done with whiskeys but not neutrals.
It definitely sounds like it puked and maybe too much power to where you were bringing up more water than the deflag could handle. (fogging glass) and just plain not enough alcohol to feed 6 plates and a 20" extension. What was the abv of your wash?
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by HDNB »

I'd still think puke unless there is something in the column to add color, like shite copper mesh that is rusting and you see orange/yellow

Fruno has a point with alcohol, mine likes LOTS of booze to fill the plates. She is truly a likker pig.

one and done AG whiskey has been impossible so far, i'm getting too much oils through the whole run. (call it lipids, fuesals, tails or smearing) unless i run super stupid slow it pulls over so much oils that anything below 46%abv clouds up.

running the deflag on low to assist the PC I can strip to 75% and then re-run to get a 78% spirit and it will dilute clean to about 43% and still have a robust whisky flavour.

but enough about my problems, OP, i'd take it all apart rinse the cups and see whats in there and check that mesh for iron.
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bluefish_dist
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by bluefish_dist »

Fogging is more water than alcohol. The color in the run is from not enough reflux. So both symptoms point to not much reflux. Could be holding up in the column, too much heat (16a @240 should not be too much), or your deflag is not knocking down the vapor to load the column. I would guess it's number 3 since you are also getting color in the distillate.
I can get colored distillate, but that is when I run a low proof, say 150ish. From 170 proof up even on 3 plates distillate is clear. I have loaded 5 plates from a 11 gallon 10% wash, so there should be enough alcohol there. What is the proof of your neutral?
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by spiff »

i had a bad BW wash give a yellow product.. when I only put half the sugar in by accident. So a bad wash can make a yellow product too.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by ISEN AG »

Sorry for the slow response. Work has been a little hectic.

Was stripping the wash but still using plates. Wanted to test drive the setup since it's new to me. The wash was 20gal @ 11% alcohol.

I Took the mesh and boiled it in the leftover mash then boiled it in water. I will be boiling it in washing soda and water for a final clean. Mesh looked alright no evidence of it being low quality. Took everything apart and flushed it with water.

The fogging explanation makes sense as when I was initially heating up the mash I was at about 21 amps which could have pulled water as well. I thought the equilaziom period would have taken care of that though. My deflag does bother me though. I feel that the size of line that was supplied is a little small. Maybe I need to look into that. Final product I have is at 91-92% after hydrometer correction.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by captainshooch »

I am having trouble wrapping my head around a lot of the comments on this thread.

The OP states he did a 20Gal was and collected 2.67 gals of neutral. :wtf:
Then he states the wash was at 11%, 11% of 20 gals is only 2.2 gals total alcohol, without cuts. Collecting 2.67, that does not make sense.

Blue fish comments about clear windows at the start then fogging from bottom up as the run runs it course is spot on.

Plated colums are good for one run and done for whyskey is ok but not for neutrals...seriously? A 4 plate under a packed section seems to be one of the best one run and done set ups, prooved by many on this forum and several other forums.

I have ran procaps for a long time now. This issues are unheard of to me and a lot of stillers I know.

All this adds up to perhaps me thinking the OP might be a little confused, and I more than willing to help with any issues, from beggining to end, starting with simple things as the wash all the way up to cuts, but I can not help with the numbers provided.

Let's start from the bottom, tell us about your wash, how it was made, how did you do it, starting and finishing gravity, etc.

We'll take it one step at a time before jumping to conclusions.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by BDF »

captainshooch wrote: The OP states he did a 20Gal was and collected 2.67 gals of neutral. :wtf:
Then he states the wash was at 11%, 11% of 20 gals is only 2.2 gals total alcohol, without cuts. Collecting 2.67, that does not
make sense.
It only doesn't make sense if you assume hes collecting at 100% abv.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by captainshooch »

Even at 90, not all collected will be neutral. Only maybe 60% which should be hearts might be.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by captainshooch »

Regardless, there is something not right and I am trying to help. When was the kast time anyone here did a 20 gal wash at 10, 11% and keptb100% of what was collected as keepers or neutral. :problem:
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by captainshooch »

BTW 20 gal at 11% collected at 90 is only 2.43 gals, total, before cuts. Back to basics, then move on.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by jedneck »

BDF wrote:
It only doesn't make sense if you assume hes collecting at 100% abv.
ISEN AG wrote: Final product I have is at 91-92% after hydrometer correction.
Looks like somebody needs to read not assume
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reading and don't ask stupid questions you'll be alright most are
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by BDF »

jedneck wrote:Looks like somebody needs to read not assume
Indeed so, my mistake. I'm two fingers deep into some Tai Terror, and the relevant info was spread across two wordy posts.
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by ISEN AG »

A majority of everything after the two gallons was collected at between 90% and 30%. This was at the tail end of the run and I collected what I could incase I could rerun it (which I plan to do since it sounds like the discoloration is due to puking)
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Re: Problems running still (pro caps, 2nd run)

Post by ISEN AG »

I broke down the birdwatchers mash in excel to accommodate the 5 gallon buckets I ferment in. SG of all the buckets were 1.09 or close to it to start out and 3-3.5 weeks to ferment out completely to .990. Siphoned off all the buckets multiple times to ensure most of the sediment was gone.

Recipie specifics I can't currently find but I can pull it up later if you would like.
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