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Thank You HDNB for the good advice. I will let everyone know my results!!
Time for an update! My Welch's grape juice never seemed to produce enough gas to make the air lock bubble so I figured it was not working properly but ran it through the still anyway. This time I bought Welch's Passion Fruit as they were out of grape. After four days still no bubbles. Thinking I might need more yeast I stopped at a local business that makes wine to get more yeast. I explained to him what I had done and he said not to add more yeast. He wanted to know how much room there was between the liquid and the cover of my fermenter. I said about six inches. He explained that with the recipe I did that the six inches was too much and I would not see bubbles in the air lock. He said give it 21 days the check it with the hydrometer. I will let you know what happens. I did make a sugar wash and it is bubbling and will use that as my last sacrificial run. Ran still on vinegar and water for the second time while getting some bugs worked out. Water in my condenser got up to 167 after 2 hour run. Seemed to produce alright at that temp. What should a pot still temp be? Thanks.
Time for an update! My Welch's grape juice never seemed to produce enough gas to make the air lock bubble so I figured it was not working properly but ran it through the still anyway. This time I bought Welch's Passion Fruit as they were out of grape. After four days still no bubbles. Thinking I might need more yeast I stopped at a local business that makes wine to get more yeast. I explained to him what I had done and he said not to add more yeast. He wanted to know how much room there was between the liquid and the cover of my fermenter. I said about six inches. He explained that with the recipe I did that the six inches was too much and I would not see bubbles in the air lock. He said give it 21 days the check it with the hydrometer. I will let you know what happens. I did make a sugar wash and it is bubbling and will use that as my last sacrificial run. Ran still on vinegar and water for the second time while getting some bugs worked out. Water in my condenser got up to 167 after 2 hour run. Seemed to produce alright at that temp. What should a pot still temp be? Thanks.
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ok, now that we are here in the novice area, lets refer you to cranky's spoonfeding thread. pot stills are not run by temperature, you will find this in intial reading.
167 is a bit hot for PC water, mabye try for sub 140, personally i like less than 120.
as mentioned in the other thread 6 inches of headroom is just nice, you need room for krausen. i never use airlocks, but a loose lid, or as mentioned, an unfermentable wash due to preservatives won't go no matter how hard you kick it.
if you read all of cranky's thread you will likely find the answer to the problem.
let us know how you make out.
167 is a bit hot for PC water, mabye try for sub 140, personally i like less than 120.
as mentioned in the other thread 6 inches of headroom is just nice, you need room for krausen. i never use airlocks, but a loose lid, or as mentioned, an unfermentable wash due to preservatives won't go no matter how hard you kick it.
if you read all of cranky's thread you will likely find the answer to the problem.
let us know how you make out.
I finally quit drinking for good.
now i drink for evil.
now i drink for evil.
- still_stirrin
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Re: Moved from welcome center.
liqrlkr, good advice there from HDNB. But I wonder if the store bought grape juice has preservatives added which will inhibit fermentation. I believe potassium sorbate is one of those. I hope you're not fighting against a "wall" like that.
Regardless of the headspace, if your ferment is producing CO2 (actually fermenting) and the fermenter is otherwise sealed, you should be getting CO2 out through the airlock. If not, your wash is carbonating. Or, it isn't producing CO2, which it should be if it is indeed fermenting.
Follow up checks of the specific gravity will give you an indication of activity. Chances are...your fermenter leaks! That is, there is CO2 exhausting through a "leaky seal" on the lid of your bucket. If you're using a glass carboy and still no CO2 outgas...you've got bigger problems.
ss
Regardless of the headspace, if your ferment is producing CO2 (actually fermenting) and the fermenter is otherwise sealed, you should be getting CO2 out through the airlock. If not, your wash is carbonating. Or, it isn't producing CO2, which it should be if it is indeed fermenting.
Follow up checks of the specific gravity will give you an indication of activity. Chances are...your fermenter leaks! That is, there is CO2 exhausting through a "leaky seal" on the lid of your bucket. If you're using a glass carboy and still no CO2 outgas...you've got bigger problems.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
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My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
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HDNB sorry for my stupidity but I really wanted to ask about the water temperature that I have running through my condenser (worm). I was up to 167F after 2 hours running water and vinegar in pot still. I was watching for angels share coming out of condenser but never did see any vapors so I believe it was still properly working at that temperature. Still Stirrin just googled it and Welchs does contain preservatives. Not sure why the recipe is so widely published. Oh Well! Will let the juice go for 21 days and let you know what I end up with. My fermenter is a new 6.5 gallon bucket and the cover sure seems tight but you never know. Thanks again.
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I just purchased a proofing parrot from ebay. I know that learning to make cuts by knowing the smell and feel of the foreshots is the best way but I think this will help me make these decisions to start with. Also it was a kit for only $28 and my friend has lead free solder. If nothing else I love more copper.
- still_stirrin
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Parrots are unnecessary equipment. I don't have one...and I can make cuts quite well. The parrot does contribute to smearing, so it's value is somewhat subjective. If you're running a 250 gallon submarine still, maybe it is useful. But, I doubt your are, so YMMV.liqrlkr wrote:I just purchased a proofing parrot from ebay. I know that learning to make cuts by knowing the smell and feel of the foreshots is the best way but I think this will help me make these decisions to start with. Also it was a kit for only $28 and my friend has lead free solder. If nothing else I love more copper.
I don't say there is not good from them...you can learn to solder by making one. But, buying one...I can't see the advantages.
The angels take their share from your aging barrel, not the product condenser. If you're seeing vapor out of the product condenser, you're pushing too much heat. Recycle your flake stand water with cooler water, or turn the heat input down (probably the immediate resolution).liqrlkr wrote:...I was watching for angels share coming out of condenser but...
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
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Thanks Stil Stir, I thought visible vapors were angels share, I have a lot to learn and I really have been reading my ass off for the last two weeks. Much more to it than I thought but I enjoy every minute of it. You guys are a great help but I will surely continue to read.
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I consider that temperature to be too hot for effective condensation of ALL the vapours. any visible vapours are proof you're leaking ethanol gas (explosive). That must be stopped. (I actually don't like any "smell" for the same reason)
SS is right - if your ferment is fermenting it should have bubbles rising. If you can't see them, remove the bubbler bung and listen carefully - you should be able to Hear "rice crispy" noise. If you can, scrape the ridges off the plastic bubbler where it goes through the cork, soak the cork for a few minutes and push them back in firmly - then you can tell the guy at the HB shop he's a nit-wit !
SS is right - if your ferment is fermenting it should have bubbles rising. If you can't see them, remove the bubbler bung and listen carefully - you should be able to Hear "rice crispy" noise. If you can, scrape the ridges off the plastic bubbler where it goes through the cork, soak the cork for a few minutes and push them back in firmly - then you can tell the guy at the HB shop he's a nit-wit !
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Pikey, I thought that was too hot, I was running vinegar water so no loss. I am using a 5 gallon bucket with a submersible pump and it stayed under 100 F for most of the 2 hour run. When to temp started to rise I probably should have added cooler water to the bucket or maybe a large chunk of ice.
I will pull the air lock tonite and maybe put a small funnel in the opening to act kind of like a stethoscope. Getting older ya know!! It is in a new 6.5 gallon bucket so I really think it is sealed OK. Will let ya know what I hear (or don't hear).
I will pull the air lock tonite and maybe put a small funnel in the opening to act kind of like a stethoscope. Getting older ya know!! It is in a new 6.5 gallon bucket so I really think it is sealed OK. Will let ya know what I hear (or don't hear).
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Hi again, What was your original recipe ? pure grape juice ?
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10 cans Welch's frozen concentrate, 7 lbs sugar to 1.10 water to make 5 gallons and 1 packet lavlen yeast. I says to ferment 30 days.
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OK well that should have enough acid and nutirient in the grape juice to go fine.
Welchs grape juice products apparently contain potassium metabisulphite, which winemakers use to kill yeast and sterilise equipment.
It produces sulphur dioxide gas, but is not long lived. so if your yeast cannot be seen or heard when you try it later, you can try forcing air through the wash with an aquarium pump, shaking, vigorous stirring etc and a new lot of yeast once youv'e let the air get to it for a little while.
If you can see signs of a ferment now, don't worry about that.
You really need to check for preservatives in any stuff you buy for fermenting.
Welchs grape juice products apparently contain potassium metabisulphite, which winemakers use to kill yeast and sterilise equipment.
It produces sulphur dioxide gas, but is not long lived. so if your yeast cannot be seen or heard when you try it later, you can try forcing air through the wash with an aquarium pump, shaking, vigorous stirring etc and a new lot of yeast once youv'e let the air get to it for a little while.
If you can see signs of a ferment now, don't worry about that.
You really need to check for preservatives in any stuff you buy for fermenting.
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Pikey, from what I am hearing and reading I think maybe this batch will be OK. After thinking back the first batch I did had tons of little bubbles popping on the surface when I took the cover off but I ran it through the still anyway because the air lock was not burping. I am thinking I will leave the cover on for the 21 days as suggested (8-21-17) and check it then. I plan to run my sugar wash this weekend for my final sacrificial cleaning, it will actually be my fourth cleaning run. It has been a real good learning time for me.
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Well, if your lid fits tight, I've told you how to fix that.liqrlkr wrote:
..... the first batch I did had tons of little bubbles popping on the surface when I took the cover off but I ran it through the still anyway because the air lock was not burping..............
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Thanks, will keep ya all informed.
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Maybe the devil's share?liqrlkr wrote:Thanks Stil Stir, I thought visible vapors were angels share, I have a lot to learn and I really have been reading my ass off for the last two weeks. Much more to it than I thought but I enjoy every minute of it. You guys are a great help but I will surely continue to read.
Geoff
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I prefer 50-60° condenser reservoir..That bein said, required readn will learn you that 60° likker temperature is were the most accurate abv readn is found.
Also pics are most helpful when explaining cooling and other issues.
Also pics are most helpful when explaining cooling and other issues.
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Moon, I assume that is C? 122 F cooler is better but I have not yet figured how to keep the temps way down. I am now making some large chunks of ice to put in my 5 gallon bucket with my submersible pump and see how much that helps. I suppose short of freezing it cooler is better.
- Still Life
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Liqrlkr~liqrlkr wrote:Moon, I assume that is C? 122 F cooler is better but I have not yet figured how to keep the temps way down. I am now making some large chunks of ice to put in my 5 gallon bucket with my submersible pump and see how much that helps. I suppose short of freezing it cooler is better.
If you got the freezer room to store 'em, use frozen soda bottles (plastic, of course).
Easily recycle them by using, then tossing back in the freezer. Don't have to keep making ice.
Some guys put sand in them to sink them in the reservoir closer to the pump intake.
My 36-quart cooler and 2"x36" column with 12" condenser uses about 10 frozen bottles over the course of a 4-hour run.
Product condenser remains cool to the touch.
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Still, great idea with the bottled ice, sure can't use up my cocktail ice!!! That also solves the problem of adding ice and overflowing the water bucket.
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Damn can't believe you get away with 5 gall water - I warm up 180 litres to start a new ferment in my big fermenter with just one 25 litre run . Then I have to let it cool some before pitching yeast
- MoonBreath
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Yes, 50°F...My setup only requires 3gal or so running in a loop thru a ss coil pre-chiller before reservoir ..Pack icu in the pre-chiller bucket.
Pics over in the cooling section ..
Use a temp gun to monitor with.
Pics over in the cooling section ..
Use a temp gun to monitor with.
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Beware of sheet-sniffers and dime-droppers!
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Moon, that is a great set up, Right now I will put frozen water bottles in my five gallon water pump bucket and give it another try.
Still Stir, I understand what you are saying about the parrot being useless for making cuts, I agree it's not the way to go. Being I do not have the experience that you folks do I thought it would show me what was happening during a stripping run so I could better understand how my still was producing. Maybe give me a better feel of the end product.
Still Stir, I understand what you are saying about the parrot being useless for making cuts, I agree it's not the way to go. Being I do not have the experience that you folks do I thought it would show me what was happening during a stripping run so I could better understand how my still was producing. Maybe give me a better feel of the end product.