Another Banana brandy attempt

[Tito]

This is my 2nd attempt at Banana brandy. I am still doing a lot of reading and learning about this incredible craft, so that is why I posted in this forum. If it needs to be moved to the fruits section then please do.

My first attempt was in the summer of 2015 and my lack of knowledge and impatience contributed to the downfall of the attempt so hopefully this one will go better. I have read every banana titled thread ever on this forum in the past 2 weeks and one particular thread caught my attention. I have posted the link below. Currently I am waiting on the bananas to brown before I start fermentation. I wanted to start this thread to detail my process and gather any input or recommendations anybody has, good or bad. Please share!

Currently our local grocery store has bananas for .45/lb. The OP in the topic I linked used 50 bananas. I have bought 100 bananas which equals about 50 pounds roughly. I may just buy 25 more pounds tomorrow Another common theme I noticed in many of the attempts I read about was the use of sugar would dilute the little banana flavor that may carry through. I know capturing the banana flavor is very tough so I am going to sacrifice volume by not using any sugar. When the bananas get brown I plan on using my mortar mixer to "mix and mash" the bananas. I also plan on using the standard bakers yeast. Right now in my area afternoon temps are 95-100 deg and probably 85-90 in my garage. I plan on keeping my fermenter there. I do have a few questions I will list below and I hope I can get some input on them.

-Will keeping the fermenter (plan on using 35 gal brute rubbermade bin) in the garage in the 90 degree heat be too much for the mash? I would think it would speed it up?

-Going no sugar and 50 pounds of bananas, how much water would be recommended? The OP in the linked thread below used 50 bananas in a 5 gallon bucket with 3 gallons of water...my 50 bananas themselves would fill up a 5 gallon bucket in itself. Maybe the bananas I have here are much bigger? Either way it seems very small considering the size of the cap I have read these mashes get.

-I have considered doing 2 different ferments, one with sugar and obviously one without. Like I said earlier, everything I have read in regards to recipes with sugar,,,seem to not turn out well. Is it even worth an attempt or should I stick with no sugar on it all?

-Should I do a 50/50 addition on yeast nutrient? half initially and half when the ferment gets to the halfway stage at 1.040?

-WHen I have fermented various fruits and through my 5 gens of UJSSM,,,they have been pretty vigorous ferments. I know there is no set time on any ferment, but should I expect a slower ferment with what I have outlined, or one similar to a standard ferment lasting roughly a week?
Again, I appreciate any input.



http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 38&t=45536

[BDF]

As far as the water/banana ratio I would look up the sugar content per weight of the banana and treat that as pure sugar in some online wash calculator and top off to whatever total volume is need to hit a conservative SG, like 1.070 or so.

My gut tells me that 90F is too high for almost any ferment, but honestly I've nothing but my gut saying that so don't place much weight on it.

Only thing else I can recommend since my experience with bananas is limited, use a super sized blow-off tube and bucket since any ferment with bananas foams up like a mother fucker.

[nerdybrewer]

IMHO you already know what happens when you add sugar to your ferment.
If it were me I'd go whole banana on that sucker!
I would treat it like a rum, it's tropical right?
90F isn't too high a temp for rum or for bakers yeast - go for it!
Just adjust the amount of water to bring it to a 1.05 - 1.06 and let her ferment out.
It may need some help, don't really know what goodies the banana has for yeast survival but it's on you to find out.
Anyway please post your progress as it's definitely something that sparks interest here.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Scroll through this thread and read up on my experience: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 38&t=58248
I think I used 4-1/2 gallons water with 60 lbs bananas, no sugar.

Result was a very intense banana spirit, and I think it has gotten even stronger with age.
Didn't make a whole lot, but it was a great success.

[Tito]

Scroll through this thread and read up on my experience: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 38&t=58248
I think I used 4-1/2 gallons water with 60 lbs bananas, no sugar.

Result was a very intense banana spirit, and I think it has gotten even stronger with age.
Didn't make a whole lot, but it was a great success.

Thanks for the heads up. Somehow I missed that thread originally, but I really enjoyed reading it just now. Sounds like it went flawless for you. I hope mine goes that smoothly! With that little of a yield, there wont be any giving this stuff away assuming it goes well!

[Tito]

Went by Home Depot today to look for a mortar mixer and all i found seemed really heavy and outer parts were rounded over so i figured i would check my scrap pile of steel at the house. I built a pull behind smoker years back and had a lot of left over pieces from it. Luckily i had a 1/4" steel rod that was left over from my hinges and a good bit of 1/8"x 2" flatbar that i used for the outside of my doors. I cut the flatbar in half by eyeballing, divided the length into 4 equal sections, and slipped a pipe over each piece and bent the flat bar as close as i could. Did this for both them welded in place, drilled a hole in each for the rod. Then i took the 2 pieces of flat bar to the grinder and put a rough edge on them. Followed that up with fine tuning the edge with an angle grinder. Once i gota decent edge on both sides i welded the rod in place. Im not sure my 1/2" electric drills have the rpm's to really make this work but my DeWalt drill sure does. I may shorten the length of the rod once i test it out. I am going to get a file and sharpen the edge, but as it is now it is plenty sharp to do what i need.

Lets try posting the pictures again. Thanks Pikey!

[Pikey]

Tito = Course you can post pictures.

This is how ;

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=66849

[Tito]

Ive had bananas outside for a day and a half now and they have turned a little brown, but mostly still yellow. The meat is very soft inside. Should they be in dorect sun or shade? It is 95-100 here. I thought it would be a little quicker from everything that i have read.

[Tito]

Well i decided today was the day. The meat of the bananas, for the most part , was almost mush. There was juice seeping out of the peels.I was also having a lot of flies hanging around so i didnt want to risk anything with them so i separated the peels from the meat. I then put half gallon of water with a couple handfuls of peels and hit them with the mixer. I did this twice, using 1 gallon of water total leaving the peels somewhat in tact. I didnt want to "puree" the meat part so i dumped all of the mixed peels into the container of meat. I then added the remaining 5 gallons of water and hit it with the mixer for about 5-10 seconds. Most of the banana meat was in chunks. I will say that i sampled a few of the bananas that were "mush" and it was like puting a banana flavored sugar cube in your mouth. I wish all of the bananas had got like this. I let this mixture sit a few hours and pitched the yeast. I used four packs of the Fleishmans dry yeast. I also used 7 teaspoons of DAP. It is smelling really really good.

[Tito]

Ok, i checked thr mash this morning expecting a violent ferment and nothing. Looks almost like it did yesterday. The lid to the container fits on this container but it is not air tight. Could that have anything to do with it? I also have it in the laundry room instead of the garage as planned, where it is much warmer (garage). When inpitched the yeast they were looking really good so i am a little confused ....Suggestions ???

[BDF]

How much yeast did you pitch?
what temp did you pitch it at?
and what temp is the mixture stored at?

I wouldn't worry too much after just one day.

[Tito]

How much yeast did you pitch?
what temp did you pitch it at?
and what temp is the mixture stored at?

I wouldn't worry too much after just one day.

I pitched 4 packs of the Fleischmans bakers yeast. I believe the water temp when i hydrated the yeast was 95 deg. I pitched it with the mash about an hour later. Temp the mash has been at the forst 24 hours was 75 deg. It is mow in my garage at 90 deg probably. I will check that when i get home. I am prepare for this to take anwhile from what i have read, but i was just expecting more at first. Maybe i had less conversion into sugar from the bananas than i thought?

[MichiganCornhusker]

Banana cap can get pretty dense.
I bet if you dig through it you will find in working below.

When it stops working that mushy cap will sink.

[Tito]

Should i stir the cap each day or let it ride?

[BDF]

Should i stir the cap each day or let it ride?

Let it go imo, you've already got the yeast in there, see if they get to work rather than stirring in more ambient air and the buggers floating in it.

[The Baker]

In our part of Australia there are a lot of very old wineries.
They used to (in some cases still do, I think) ferment the grapes in big, waxed, open concrete vats.
And they pushed the cap down at least once a day, to stop it drying out.

Geoff

[Tito]

Peeked in this afternoon and everything looks the same for the most part. No rise in the cap or vigorous ferment like so many have reported. The cap looked a little dry and was pulling away from the edges of the fermenter. I also noticed a few fruit flies in the container when i peeked in. The lid doesnt fit too snug so i laid some paper towels around the edge and put the lid back on...fits snug now. I also did notice a nice banana smell. Mind you i am a novice but i did get a hint of alcohol smell. So who knows whats really going on in there!

[Tito]

Ok so we may have a problem. Yesterday the cap looked extremely dry. I was curious to what the pH was soni measured it. Seemed to be around 4.0-4.4. I gently, with a clean stirring spoon, pressed down on the cap. I didnt stir it...i peeked in this afternoon and it looks like mold is covering the top of the cap?

[MichiganCornhusker]

You are good, don't sweat it

[Pikey]

Winemakers press that cap down 1 -3 times a day to keep it wet and prevent mould. - But distillers will run it (hopefully) before the mould has a real chance to poison the wash

[MichiganCornhusker]

Um, "poison" is a pretty powerful word there Pikey.

Edited for spelling.

[Pikey]

We do tend to rely on distillation to remove "stuff" we would not dare to drink - see "Dunder pits"

[Edit - "Pikey" is not the same as "Pike" ]

[The Baker]

[Edit - "Pikey" is not the same as "Pike" ]

Affectionate diminutive?

Geoff

[Tito]

You are good, don't sweat it

I measurured the PH a few days ago at roughly 4.2. I never took a SG when i started because it was so thick. It looks like the mold is getting worse. Should i try and take the top layer lf white mold stuff off or do you still think im good?

[MichiganCornhusker]

You can scoop off the cap to see what's going on below.
I use a kitchen strainer for that.

At least get enough of the ferment out to take a SG reading.
You might be low enough to run it.

[Pikey]

I think I'd scrape the cap off and dispose of it. As I said winemakers tend to press the cap down several times a day. I've never had any issues doing that - but if you're Not going to mix the cap with the wine regularly and extract extra flavour each time, What exactly do you want the cap for ?

[Tito]

I scraped off the top layer. I think it is still working. I saw a few bubbles pop up once i got that top later off. Suprisingly the peels have a dried texture to them. I was expecting them to turn to mush like the meat. The smell is not very banana anymore. A not too pleasant smell. As you can see the SG reading is 1.010. I sampled some of the mash and did not pick up much banana flavor. A fruity hint but very tart. I hope it hasnt turned to vinegar in this short of time? I wonder if i should strain off the pulp and airlock it in a carboy.

[Pikey]

Speaking as a winemaker, we call what you're doing "Fermenting on the pulp" - and certainly, most will do that for 48 hours or longer to extract more flavour - say a week, pressing down regularly, then strain the must and do as you say - continue in a sealed fermenter, under an airlock.

Personally, when I make banana wine, I put around 2.5 lbs bananas including about 50% of the skins into a big pan with a (US) gallon and boil them til they go a really ugly shade of grey and really slimy, (Probably an hour or more) strain the juice onto 2 lb of sugar and when cooled add a little citric acid, nutrient and a GOOD wine yeast. Fermentation takes a few weeks/months and ends up with a good looking very light coloured wine with plenty of taste.

[Note; - I have adapted the quantties above to ferment out dry using US measures It should be made at 1 gallon US for those quantities. Actually the wine needs more sugar and finishes sweet.]

If you still can't get any flavourthis time, try distilling a few gallons of that wine ! [I never have, but will do one of these days]

[Tito]

SG was still at 1.010 today. Nothing had changed. There was a little bit more mold on top from
Where i skimmed iff the top later of fruit on saturday. Am i still good to leave it in the fermenter? There is so much ehadspace. I wonder if that possibly has anything to do with it. Would putting it in a carboy allow it to finish? The smell is still pretty harsh..

[Tito]

Ok, so an update. I moved the mash to a 5 gallon carboy and a few 1 gallon glass jugs. I was starting to get more and more flies, and mold. I scooped off the cap and drained it. Then racked the mash into carboy etc. The smell under the cap was much more pleasant than the smell outside the fermenter. The lees settled almost immediately in the carboys. I checked sg a few days later (wed) and sg appeared to have dropped to just under 1.010. I siphoned some out of the carboy today to check and got a little in my mouth and it was sour as shit. And to top it off it looked like the sg was at 1.010 so maybe i misread it the other day. Is there any way to tell if this has turned to vinegar? Besides obviously tasting it. My UJSSM ferments have a slght tart flavor, this was much much more strong.