Had to stop run half way through.

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Neelin01
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Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Neelin01 »

I tried doing a run last night with the t500. The wash was crystal clear and SG was spot on. I could not regulate the temperature for the life of me though. I'm on a well. So basically the temp climbs while the pressure in my water tank ebbs, then the tank will kick on and the temp goes down. It's impossible to keep it at one steady temperature. it was running as hot as 65 and then dropping as low as 45. I had to shut down the boiler after 5 hrs and I only got 2 litres of product all devided in separate jars 500 ml each. Today I am going to fix the water pressure problem ( not sure how yet I'm going to try to figure out a way without buying a pressure regulator from spirit still) but I'm not sure if I can just fire back up and run that wash until it's finished or should I just write it off and start over? I hate to dump it out but I also would hate to make an inferior product somehow. It's still in the boiler with the lid on tight and it's still warm. What do you guys think?
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Still Life
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Still Life »

It's OK to run again.
The wash/mash isn't "damaged" by a partial run.
Sometimes when I'm tired, I'll shut the still down and finish it the next day.
No worries.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by still_stirrin »

Neelin01 wrote:...Today I am going to fix the water pressure problem...not sure how yet I'm going to try to figure out a way without buying a pressure regulator...What do you guys think?
Here’s the easiest way to eliminate the pressure cycles from a well pump system: get a water reservoir (50 gallons or so) and a pond pump (100-120 GPH) and adjust the coolant water flow through the secondary system. If the reservoir temperature rises above 100*F then replace some of the water with more cold water.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by WIski »

I have found the easiest way to sufficiently regulate condenser water pressure is to install a simple inline regulator similar to this one. https://www.amazon.com/Senninger-Thread ... B01986F6IW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Keeps the water pressure steady enough for what we do. YMMV
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Truckinbutch »

You will be fine restarting . A 50 gallon coolant reservoir and pond pump is a good solution to regulating cooling .
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Kareltje
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Kareltje »

As already said: no problem going on.
I try to use cooling with air: just run slow and let the vapour be cooled by a 10 m long ss worm. Only valve I need to regulate is the gas and we have a very reliable gasinfrastructure.
Neelin01
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Neelin01 »

Thanks guys. I'm still working on figuring a work around for the water pressure. I will probably go the route you guys have suggested with the reservoir and pond pump. Two more questions; when I fire the still back up does it continue where it left off with regards to foreshore heads hearts and tails or should I make it another separate run and blend it together after? Also. The temp did get up pretty high at times. Into the 70 s at one point. I tried my best to keep it in the low range. But do you think the product I've made so far will be usable or should I just add it all into another run? I honestly can't tell the difference yet between either heads hearts or tails. It all smells the same to me. I haven't tasted it yet.
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Still Life
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Still Life »

You should be able to pick up as if there was no break in the action.
It'll be fine.

Here's a guide to making cuts that can help immensely if you're having trouble.

70°C is getting too high for the condenser.
~50°C would be more desirable.
You want the exit water warm, but not hot.
Escaping vapor isn't only a waste, but dangerously flammable too.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Neelin01 »

Thanks still life. I am reading it over right now. I just had a thought tho. Where my temp is fluctuating so badly if it goes down to the 40s which it did once or twice. Is it going to produce more methanol than the original foreshots I took out. Man my head hurts from all this reading worse than any hang over I've had.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Still Life »

Neelin01 wrote:Thanks still life. I am reading it over right now. I just had a thought tho. Where my temp is fluctuating so badly if it goes down to the 40s which it did once or twice. Is it going to produce more methanol than the original foreshots I took out. Man my head hurts from all this reading worse than any hang over I've had.
Forget about methanol. You're not going to magically create it.
There are no dangerous levels in the average wash/mash. There just isn't.

A cool running condenser is great!
I run mine very cool -almost cold at times. HOT is the problem!
And temperature fluctuations are a normal process. Just don't let the heat build where vapor escapes.

A few runs after you get your water supply regulated, and you'll see what a "minor" chore this becomes.
Neelin01
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Neelin01 »

I think I've answers my own question. Tell me if this is wrong; the mash is still boiling full out and the condenser is the one changing temp with my fluctuating water flow . Not the actual mash , so while it goes above and below the recommended range of 55-65 degrees the only effect of the difference in temp will be the quality and quantity of the alcohol. I'm hoping I got this right. Also, my local brew shop sells the still spirits water flow regulators for 130$. I can get the parts to make a dyi one for 100 or so. I think for the 30$ extra I will just buy it
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Still Life
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Still Life »

Somewhat correct.
The mash is changing temperature all the time because of it's changing chemistry and heat input.
The condenser water temperature is a function of that mash temperature and heat input.

You don't want to moderate the mash temperature --leave it to its business. The mash does what it does.
You DO want to moderate your condenser water temperature. (Again, keep around 50c)
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Neelin01 »

Okay. I think I understand now. I have a feeling this run won't taste the best but I just want to be sure that it's safe to play around with when it's all done. I will follow the directions and try to do simple cuts as best I can. Worst case I can run it again when I have my temperature problem under control.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by NZChris »

Have you done vinegar and alcohol cleaning runs, or is this its first run?
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Neelin01 »

First run, I rinsed it with warm water first though. I've got it running again and the best I can keep the temp at is 55.6 while the well pump kicks on and then up to 63.8 as the pressure ebbs.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by NZChris »

I don't have any experience with the T500, but most new stills need the two cleaning runs to get rid of flux and machine oils before your first potable run. Drinking dirty liquor from a new still can have you sitting on the crapper barfing into a bucket, which is not ideal.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Cu29er »

.

Check the air pressure in your well pump system's 'accumulator'. Add air to it if low (bicycle pump fits). Often the rubber bladder in them breaks/leaks so it's filled with water and you get the wide pressure swings in the system. A properly working accumulator tank will even out the pressure spikes and ease the load on the well pump making the pump last longer.

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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by cob »

rv water pressure regulator, on amazon less than $10, all brass, mine holds 40 psi.

check your local rv store.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Chixter »

I stopped halfway through a stripping run today, NBD. Ran out to get a sammy for lunch, was gone 15 min or so. Fired 'er back up, was choochin in 5 minutes. RV regulator or reservoir. I do my spirit runs with electric with ice water in a 10 gal drink cooler. If the condenser gets too warm, I add more ice. Stripping runs I use propane and garden hose cooling. But I have muni-water.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by The Baker »

Stopped my run (20 litre stock pot, pot still) last night. The boiler has a tin shield around it; I threw a fluffy bed sheet over it (loosely packed) and nearly twenty hours later it was still not cold.
Barely warm but it still gave me a bit of a start on the warm-up.

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Kareltje
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Kareltje »

The situation you describe, with a unstable watercooling, I recognize since a year. Cooling by water is an enerving experience.

Before and apart from that, I used a cooling spiral in air. Regulated the heat input with the valve on my stove so my distillate had a reasonable temperature. Adapting heat input to cooling output.
This made a stable, inherent safe system. Just change collecting jars in time, no other worries.

I can recommend it. Makes life much easier.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Tapeman »

I've run with city water pressure and gravity feed from a 5 gallon jug sitting above the still. The jug needs refilling often, but otherwise works great.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by BoomTown »

Truckinbutch wrote:You will be fine restarting . A 50 gallon coolant reservoir and pond pump is a good solution to regulating cooling .
We used this technique for years, never had a problem. We'd monitor the tempurature in the reservoir, and replace warm water with cool water on very long cycles, but don't think we really had to. Also, if you replace the water in the reservoir regularly, it stays 'fresh'.
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by goinbroke2 »

What are you using for a condenser? The reason I ask is, typical hydraulics means if you have a larger condenser it won't be effected as much as a smaller one. In other words, you shouldn't have a pressure issue if you flow enough volume. If a change in pressure directly relates to a change in temp, then you're borderline with your cooling. You should be able to slowly trickle cold water in and keep your output cool, if you require higher pressure to get enough volume, your too small.

Oh, and I like my output cold. (I also think if something is worth doing, it's worth doing in excess lol)
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Neelin01
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Re: Had to stop run half way through.

Post by Neelin01 »

Hi All, just wanted to update everyone. I ended up buying the pressure flow regulator at the local brew shop and it's working great, I can now maintain a steady water pressure and as a result a steady temperature. I've done a few runs now and I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. My first run turned out amazing. The second and third not as good. The second one I got greedy and left in too much heads I think... major hang over lol. I'm going to run that batch thru again. My third one I was too impatient and let it run hotter - 62-65 C and It ran through faster, still had an abc of 92% but the taste just wasn't there. From now on I'm going run slow and low. I learn everything the hard way but The hard lessons are the ones that seem to stick with me. I value all your input and tips. Thanks again for all the help
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