Need some help with Gin Flavours

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bugno
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Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by bugno »

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and new to distilling. We have made a gin using a
Grain father and alembic copper still. Everything went smooth and all the
numbers stacked up. We diluted it down to 40% today and have just tried it.
There is an overwhelming liquorice flavour coming from it from the star
anise. Two questions:

Will this fade over time as we do not like it?

If not can I run the whole lot back through the still to remove all the
flavours and then reflavour it?

Hope someone can help as would be a shame to loose this batch.

Ty

S
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bitter
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by bitter »

Take a look at odins easy gin. Its a good place to start.

What is your recipe? this will help people try to help you.

Maybe do another run with no star anis.. and mix into that till you get the flavor you are after. This will help you determine how much of that to add to each batch.

Also did you do cuts at the beginning? this helps to remove some the strongest oils in a run. Depending what you use you will find certain components come over at different times.

B
Last edited by bitter on Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by still_stirrin »

Star anise is not the right botanical to use in a gin, especially if you put it in the boiler.

Go to the Tried & True recipe forum and read through Odin’s EZ gin recipe. There is much good info there.

But, for your overly aggressive licorice spirit..I think massive dilution (with more clean neutral) is the only way to save it. Or, enjoy your homemade Ouzo.
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bugno
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by bugno »

Hi All,

Wash was 2 x 50 litres (14kg dextrose made up to 50litres in each)

Fermented and cleared using still spirits yeast and turbo clear to clear.

Ran through the still in 4 x 25 litres batches approx. Stopped at 20% and discarded the remains.

Added the spirit from run 1 and 2 together and added the spirit from run 3 and 4 together.

Botanicals used:


Run 1 and 2 combined:

Ground the following using pestle and mortar and added to a muslin bag tied hanging from the alembic inside the steam:

36mm Cinnamon Stick
5g Star Anise
3.6g Cardamom
12 Cloves
12g Juniper
5g Lemon Zest
5g Orange Zest

Crushed 48g Juniper and 9.5g Coriander and added to the Spirit in the boiler. Spirit was diluted back to 40% for this run.

Discarded the first 400ml, collected 3 x 300ml heads and then collected everything until we hit 20%. Did not use any heads back into final product. Ended up with approx. 15 litres when we diluted the final run to 40%

What do ye think? Where might all the liquorish flavour be coming from?

Hope this makes sense.

Ty

S
Fraser
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by Fraser »

That's proportionately a big amount of star anise compared to the rest of your botanical bill there, IMO.

My advice would be to set it aside and blend it with another run, where you completely leave out the anise. If it's still too strong try blending it with a clean neutral proofed down to 40%, but beware that will soften out all your other flavors too.

Gin also really benefits from a few weeks rest in the bottle to settle down, so it's likely it will taste and smell less strongly if you let it sit for awhile.

I don't see any fixatives in your list there, angelica or orris root. Those ingredients tend to bind everything together so the aromas and flavors stay put. Without them your gin will lose its gusto over a period of time.. which can be remedied by drinking it right away.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by still_stirrin »

bugno wrote:What do ye think? Where might all the liquorish flavour be coming from?
My guess....from the 5 grams of star anise you used. And it was aggravated by the loss of juniper character you dumped in your heads.

Biggest problem is....trying to make gallons of gin before you know your recipe. If.....you would read Odin's EZ gin recipe in the Tried & True recipe forum, you would see that the recipe starts with a liter or 2 of clean neutral...such that you don't need to take another "heads" cut. When you macerate the juniper, the oils come over early in your boil...exactly where you dumped the heads from.

So, now you have 4 gallons of Ouzo-like spirit. Rerunning it may help a little. But I doubt it'll help much. I hope you and your friends like to drink licorice.
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Stargazer14
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by Stargazer14 »

This reminds me of the time I gathered all my old bottles of commercial booze to do a cleaning run on my alembic still. One of those bottles was absinthe.
Took me a while to get that licorice smell out of my still. That anise is strong stuff.
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NZChris
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by NZChris »

You might be able to rescue it by putting everything, including what you mistakenly thought was heads, back into the boiler and rerunning it into small jars.
Identify the jars with the strongest anise and call them Ouzo :D
Using a teaspoon, make up prospective gin blends from the remaining jars. Hopefully, you will be able to make up something you like.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Id be getting rid of the Star Anise all together,
It also seems like a huge amount of cloves, I doubt they are adding anything great to the flavour.
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by thecroweater »

I think you will seriously struggle to easily clean that up, I'd say the best suggestion was to run more minus the offending botanicals and blend it to reduce them. Thing is you can try rerunning it but it may not reduce flavours evenly so may even increase the dominance of the flavours you are not keen on.
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bugno
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by bugno »

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies; we are already learning so much (there are a few of us involved in this venture). The gin was kind of a test run to try and get to know the system and the techniques involved. It is a pity we overloaded on the botanicals but tried some tonight and it has already mellowed quite a bit in one week. We will not adjust this any further and see how it goes.

I suppose the real reason we started distilling is our love of rum. We wanted to nail down the technique before we started to try the rum. We have a mixture of molasses and sugar currently fermented and awaiting distillation. I have read so much on here with regard to making rum, my mind is spinning. Would it be OK to start a new thread for the rum we are making/ trying to make? I can post up the recipe and would seek guidance on what would be the best way to proceed. We really want to get this right.

Thanks so far for your help,

S
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still_stirrin
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Re: Need some help with Gin Flavours

Post by still_stirrin »

bugno wrote:...I can post up the recipe and would seek guidance on what would be the best way to proceed. We really want to get this right.
I strongly urge you to choose a Tried & True recipe and follow that rather than try to “hodge podge” another attempt. You’ll get closer to an acceptable product sooner. When you have many successes, then venture out into your own recipe formulation....lessons learned the hard way, right?
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