Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methanol?

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methanol?

Post by Caile »

When distilling, should the first bit be discarded like it's advised to do normally? This would just a batch of sugar or dextrose, water, yeast, nutrient.
User avatar
Kareltje
Distiller
Posts: 2176
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:29 pm

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Kareltje »

No and yes.
No, sugar washes do not produce methanol.
Yes, one should discard the first drops of distillate.
Not because of the methanol, but because of the socalled nasties: ethylacetate, acetaldehyde, aceton, methylacetate.
But if you smell the stuff, you will throw it away by your own impulse. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7657
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Yummyrum »

Kareltje wrote:No and yes.
No, sugar washes do not produce methanol.
Yes, one should discard the first drops of distillate.
Not because of the methanol, but because of the socalled nasties: ethylacetate, acetaldehyde, aceton, methylacetate.
But if you smell the stuff, you will throw it away by your own impulse. :mrgreen:
Nicely answered Kareltje :thumbup: .....so true :D
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

Kareltje wrote:No and yes.
No, sugar washes do not produce methanol.
Yes, one should discard the first drops of distillate.
Not because of the methanol, but because of the socalled nasties: ethylacetate, acetaldehyde, aceton, methylacetate.
But if you smell the stuff, you will throw it away by your own impulse. :mrgreen:
Thanks, I'm so glad an expert came to my aid so quickly.

When you say the "first drops of distillate", do you literally mean the drops like out of a dropper vial? And how many drops is the "first drops" approximately. 1/10th of a 2oz shot glass?
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 7360
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by HDNB »

discard about 0.5% of the wash volume. so thats like the first 100mL/20L or 2 oz per 5 gallons.

of course the next bit (like 1L-3L /20L) is going to be headsy so you'll want to collect that separately for further processing. see kiwistillers guide to cuts in the novice distiller section.

cheers.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

Will this work if I'm doing freeze distillation/fractional freezing? My bottles will be in 1.5L bottles, which I plan to freeze, turn over, let thaw while the alcohol drips out of the bottle into a bowl. So the first 20-25ml that drops out should suffice to discard?
User avatar
Still Life
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1545
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:24 pm
Location: Great State Of Missouri

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Still Life »

Freeze distillation freezes the water, but everything else is still mixed together.
You can't separate fores, heads, etc. that way.
The first drops are practically just like the last.
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 7360
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by HDNB »

Caile wrote:Will this work if I'm doing freeze distillation/fractional freezing? My bottles will be in 1.5L bottles, which I plan to freeze, turn over, let thaw while the alcohol drips out of the bottle into a bowl. So the first 20-25ml that drops out should suffice to discard?
so i gotta ask, is there a reason that you have to produce shitty likker? between this thread and the the other, trying to produce 22% abv in plastic pop bottles and then freeze jack them?
i get it, assuming there is some financial reason or you are languishing in a prison somewhere (northern, i'm guessing?)
but really, it's pretty cheap and simple to make a decent wash and small potstill and actually make something worth drinking.

just sayin'.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

Still Life wrote:Freeze distillation freezes the water, but everything else is still mixed together.
You can't separate fores, heads, etc. that way.
The first drops are practically just like the last.
Are fores, heads, etc. really all that bad? There's lots of people who use this technique and don't report any negative side effects. I'm guessing that long term use would be bad.

Next payday I'm investing in a distillation apparatus I'm getting from here - https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1000ml-Chemistr ... SwDNdVifNr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Will this do the trick?

And how about that distillation method where you put a pot floating on the wash inside a larger pot with a curved bowl over top, put it over a stovetop and when it gets to a certain temperature the alcohol will evaporate to the top of the curved lid and drip down into the smaller floating pot. Will this method work? Will it collect the heads and fores first?
User avatar
Kareltje
Distiller
Posts: 2176
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:29 pm

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Kareltje »

I tried freezing once, but the result tasted quite bad and I lost a lot. After two rounds of freezing and thawing I decided to run it in a normal pot still. Too troublesome and too little result.

The glass still can do a few tricks. Do you know how you want to heat it? And only 1 liter per run? Even less, if the mash foams.

The third method you mention is called a wok still. I heard it can be done and some say it is surprisingly efficient, but if you seriously want to run a still with that principle, the building of it will be as difficult and as expensive as building a more common still.
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

Kareltje wrote:The glass still can do a few tricks. Do you know how you want to heat it? And only 1 liter per run? Even less, if the mash foams.
My plan is to get my ABV up to 23% per batch using Lightning Turbo Yeast (https://www.dannyswineandbeer.com/colle ... urbo-yeast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) ... which looks promising if following the exact instructions. Then do one freeze distillation which should yield a good amount of hard liquor. I then plan on running that through the glass distillation apparatus. I saw a youtube tutorial on how to do this and it yields a 95% ethanol when distilled from hard liquors.
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

Caile wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Do you know how you want to heat it?
Submerge the glass in a pot of water with just the right temperature to evaporate the alcohol and leave the rest behind.
jb-texshine
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3036
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Texan living in Missouri

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by jb-texshine »

I think you could really use some basic knowledge on distillation and what your trying to make.Freeze distilling sucks. But we will try helping as much as we can.
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!


Deo Vendice

Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 7360
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by HDNB »

Caile wrote:
Caile wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Do you know how you want to heat it?
Submerge the glass in a pot of water with just the right temperature to evaporate the alcohol and leave the rest behind.
doesn't really work that way. you can't just "boil off the alcohol leaving the rest behind"
the wok still (which i have done ) yields the shittiest likker imaginable, possibly worse that freeze jacking. no way to make cuts.

can i maybe suggest a decent size pot with a lid, punch a hole for some flexible 1/2" (or 3/8 minimum) copper tube and seal it all up with some flour paste after charging it... it would at least allow for collecting your distillate in smaller fractions, allowing you to make cuts on the heads and tails (see kiwistiller's guide to cuts in novice section)

since there is a payday in the future this would give you a shot of making something potable, at a very affordable price.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by still_stirrin »

Caile wrote:...My plan is to get my ABV up to 23% per batch using Lightning Turbo Yeast...Then do one freeze distillation which should yield a good amount of hard liquor.....then plan on running that through the glass distillation apparatus...I saw a youtube tutorial on how to do this and it yields a 95% ethanol when distilled from hard liquors.
Wow....just wow! If I wasn’t shy, I’d say this sounds like “troll speak”.

First off, turbo yeast produces crappy spirits and when pushed above 20%ABV potential, it can’t possibly taste (or smell) worth keeping. Then, you want to freeze jack it, further concentrating the crappy flavor even more before attempting to run it a liter at a time through a glass apparatus which uses silicone hoses for part of the apparatus...and (because you watched a video on youtube) you actually expect to collect something worth drinking at 95%ABV.

Wow!

Sorry, I urge you to stop this crazy thinking and start reading. And you can start with the hotlinks in my signature. Your questions make you sound very dangerous to yourself and anyone nearby. Read and heed.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

HDNB wrote:
Caile wrote:
Caile wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Do you know how you want to heat it?
Submerge the glass in a pot of water with just the right temperature to evaporate the alcohol and leave the rest behind.
doesn't really work that way. you can't just "boil off the alcohol leaving the rest behind"
correct me if I'm wrong, but one of those glass distillation apparatuses (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1000ml-Chemistr ... SwDNdVifNr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) can distill to 95% ethanol. I have seen someone do this. Can you explain how this wouldn't work? You set the temperature just to where the alcohol starts evaporating off, but not hot enough to evaporate the water. All the gunk would be left behind... where else would it go?

I will consider kiwistiller's guide if someone can prove why the distillation apparatus won't work.
User avatar
jon1163
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 502
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by jon1163 »

[/quote]

I will consider kiwistiller's guide if someone can prove why the distillation apparatus won't work.[/quote]

Uhh... Dude read. Most of the guys regularly posting on this site really really know their stuff.
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

still_stirrin wrote:
Caile wrote:...My plan is to get my ABV up to 23% per batch using Lightning Turbo Yeast...Then do one freeze distillation which should yield a good amount of hard liquor.....then plan on running that through the glass distillation apparatus...I saw a youtube tutorial on how to do this and it yields a 95% ethanol when distilled from hard liquors.
Wow....just wow! If I wasn’t shy, I’d say this sounds like “troll speak”.

First off, turbo yeast produces crappy spirits and when pushed above 20%ABV potential, it can’t possibly taste (or smell) worth keeping. Then, you want to freeze jack it, further concentrating the crappy flavor even more before attempting to run it a liter at a time through a glass apparatus which uses silicone hoses for part of the apparatus...and (because you watched a video on youtube) you actually expect to collect something worth drinking at 95%ABV.

Wow!

Sorry, I urge you to stop this crazy thinking and start reading. And you can start with the hotlinks in my signature. Your questions make you sound very dangerous to yourself and anyone nearby. Read and heed.
ss
Correct me if I'm wrong but ethanol is ethanol, no matter the source. I would not be drinking the 95% solution, I would be diluting it back down. And from what I've seen on tutorial videos, the alcohol doesn't run through the silicone hose, just the glass.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by still_stirrin »

Caile wrote:...Can you explain how this wouldn't work? You set the temperature just to where the alcohol starts evaporating off, but not hot enough to evaporate the water. All the gunk would be left behind... where else would it go?.
Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 65&t=16635
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

HDNB wrote:
Caile wrote:
Caile wrote:
Kareltje wrote:Do you know how you want to heat it?
Submerge the glass in a pot of water with just the right temperature to evaporate the alcohol and leave the rest behind.
doesn't really work that way. you can't just "boil off the alcohol leaving the rest behind"
the wok still (which i have done ) yields the shittiest likker imaginable, possibly worse that freeze jacking. no way to make cuts.

can i maybe suggest a decent size pot with a lid, punch a hole for some flexible 1/2" (or 3/8 minimum) copper tube and seal it all up with some flour paste after charging it... it would at least allow for collecting your distillate in smaller fractions, allowing you to make cuts on the heads and tails (see kiwistiller's guide to cuts in novice section)

since there is a payday in the future this would give you a shot of making something potable, at a very affordable price.
would this distiller work well?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/110-120V-AC-750W ... Sw-URZtfZE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
jb-texshine
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3036
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Texan living in Missouri

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by jb-texshine »

still_stirrin wrote:
Caile wrote:...Can you explain how this wouldn't work? You set the temperature just to where the alcohol starts evaporating off, but not hot enough to evaporate the water. All the gunk would be left behind... where else would it go?.
Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 65&t=16635
Hey still stirrin,Did you read my post the other day in "tonight's new moonshiners episode"?
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!


Deo Vendice

Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by still_stirrin »

Caile wrote:....would this distiller work well?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/110-120V-AC-750W ... Sw-URZtfZE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Here, read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=25340
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7657
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Yummyrum »

Caile , if you want to make and drink this shit then go ahead . Just don't give it to anyone else .
There is a lot of missinformation on the internet and particularly You-tube .
It sounds like you would rather listen to / or watch what you think is better advise than take on board what we are trying to recommend.

You cannot make 95%ABV in that glass still unless you filled it with about 94% ABV spirit . It is a simple pot still which does one distillation . If you want to get 95% from your jacked up 22% wash you will need a reflux still . ....not a pot still .

This is from the thread still_stirrin suggested you read
Alcohol_curve.jpg
If you look at this graph . Say you have a 20% wash , go up to the blue curve and across to the red curve and back down .You end up with 70%@ ABV .....not 95% .
So if you redistill the 70% , you go up to the blue line , across to the red lione and back down you end up with 83% , do it again you end up with about 90% , do it again you end up about 92 % Blaa Blaa Blaa .

So you need to do multiple distillations in a pot still to get 95% ....Big problem here is that putting anything higher than around 40% into a boiler is concidered dangerous and not recommended . This is why we use reflux stills to achieve the high ABV .
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by still_stirrin »

jb-texshine wrote:
Caile wrote:...Can you explain how this wouldn't work? You set the temperature just to where the alcohol starts evaporating off, but not hot enough to evaporate the water. All the gunk would be left behind... where else would it go?.
Hey still stirrin,Did you read my post the other day in "tonight's new moonshiners episode"?
:lol:

This one? http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7496638

Sorry for the side track Caile, but your questions come around over and over and some would say they tend to cycle with the Discovery channel’s seasonal releases.

All questions have been asked and answered many times before. We want every new member to learn safely. This is my reason to push you to read, read, and read some more.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

still_stirrin wrote:
Caile wrote:....would this distiller work well?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/110-120V-AC-750W ... Sw-URZtfZE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Here, read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=25340
Thanks... glad I landed here, even though I'm getting my butt kicked :P

Should I go with this distill? It looks like one of the good ones, just compact.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-3-Gal-Water- ... SwZVlXwIvt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
jb-texshine
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3036
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Texan living in Missouri

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by jb-texshine »

still_stirrin wrote:
jb-texshine wrote:
Caile wrote:...Can you explain how this wouldn't work? You set the temperature just to where the alcohol starts evaporating off, but not hot enough to evaporate the water. All the gunk would be left behind... where else would it go?.
Hey still stirrin,Did you read my post the other day in "tonight's new moonshiners episode"?
:lol:

This one? http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7496638

Sorry for the side track Caile, but your questions come around over and over and some would say they tend to cycle with the Discovery channel’s seasonal releases.

All questions have been asked and answered many times before. We want every new member to learn safely. This is my reason to push you to read, read, and read some more.
ss
That's the one,lol.
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!


Deo Vendice

Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
User avatar
thecroweater
retired
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by thecroweater »

Not the worst still I've seen but its a runner up contender. Don't be in a rush and look around as lots of guys here will help you made a sound decision.
As for freeze jacking using anything made with that high abv turbo extra shit do NOT do it. That yeast is the pits and even the manufacturers recommend you don't distill it, it is for making ghetto fake spirits ppl add premix flavoured cordial to. The stuff it makes is wretched, back home say 10 years ago that crap put a bunch of lads in hospital after an afternoon on it and that's without distilling it. Other than that jacking is jacked anyway.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
jb-texshine
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3036
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 am
Location: Texan living in Missouri

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by jb-texshine »

Caile wrote:
still_stirrin wrote:
Caile wrote:....would this distiller work well?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/110-120V-AC-750W ... Sw-URZtfZE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Here, read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=25340
Thanks... glad I landed here, even though I'm getting my butt kicked :P

Should I go with this distill? It looks like one of the good ones, just compact.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-3-Gal-Water- ... SwZVlXwIvt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Actually,it's not horrible. Not great but not horrible. Has a rubber seal on it that can be removed and dough used to seal instead. Just small. But workable with patience.
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!


Deo Vendice

Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

Ok, I won't go with the Turbo yeast. I'll stick with 1118. I did a lot of googling and that still looks like the best bang I'm gonna get for my buck.
Caile
Novice
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:00 am

Re: Do sugar washes and pure dextrose washes produce methano

Post by Caile »

jb-texshine wrote:
Caile wrote:
still_stirrin wrote:
Caile wrote:....would this distiller work well?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/110-120V-AC-750W ... Sw-URZtfZE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Here, read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=25340
Thanks... glad I landed here, even though I'm getting my butt kicked :P

Should I go with this distill? It looks like one of the good ones, just compact.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-3-Gal-Water- ... SwZVlXwIvt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Actually,it's not horrible. Not great but not horrible. Has a rubber seal on it that can be removed and dough used to seal instead. Just small. But workable with patience.
Say I had 1.5L of 16% sugar wash, how long would it take to distill that down to 40%? How much longer for 60%? I'm not a huge drinker, I drink every other day, so I don't need to distill that much.
Locked