Fermentation help?

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Leatherface
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Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

I started a neutral wash two weeks ago. My starting specific gravity was 1073, it has been bubbling the air lock kinda slowly for the last week. It is at 1060 now and seems to be still working but very slow. I'm using a ferm wrap and the temp has been about 85f consistently. Is this normal? This is my first try, recipe I used is below
8lbs white sugar
2lbsbrown sugar
1lb raisins
1pack D47 wine yeast
Distilled water , 6 gallons total after all ingredients
I'm not sure if I should be concerned or just keep waiting
Thanks
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HDNB
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by HDNB »

get concerned.

get some bread yeast and make a nice starter.

add it to wash after you have stirred in some sort of nutrient. maybe a bit of tomato paste if you have some.
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Leatherface
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

HDNB wrote:get concerned.

get some bread yeast and make a nice starter.

add it to wash after you have stirred in some sort of nutrient. maybe a bit of tomato paste if you have some.
How much yeast and tomato paste for a 6 gallon batch? Thanks for the advice!
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still_stirrin
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by still_stirrin »

Leatherface wrote:How much yeast and tomato paste for a 6 gallon batch? Thanks for the advice!
This much: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 96&t=47486
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NZChris
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by NZChris »

Leatherface wrote:Distilled water
Distilled water is nutrient and mineral free. It is a danger to your health, and to the health of your yeast, without appropriate supplements.
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by jb-texshine »

Brown sugar and d47 don't sound very neutral to me. Sounds more like a super light rum with floral notes.
85f is a bit warm for d47 which will make it throw lots of floral and fruity esters. Even d47 should have fermented further by now though. Ph May have become a problem by now also. Check it also. Correct if necessary,SLOWLY.
Add tomato paste ,at least 2oz.
Repitch bakers
Keep temp where it's at.
Jbt

Edited to add: NGC good catch on the distilled water! That needs to be remedied also.
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bluefish_dist
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by bluefish_dist »

I have found a couple of things that really help fermentation. First check ph at pitch. Aim for 5.1 to 5.4. With my water I have to add acid, but as my water also has very little minerals I add about equal parts citric acid and calcium carbonate. This will help your ferments to finish better. Sounds odd, but starting ph effects finishing sg.
Two for sugar washes make sure you have nutrients. Tomato paste works well as do things like super food.
Three watch the ph for sugar washes. They tend to crash. Adjust with calcium carbonate if it goes below 4. All grain have a lot more buffer capacity and don't need nearly as much cc added.
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DAD300
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by DAD300 »

If you don't have anything else, put a cup of breakfast cereal or some enriched flour in it for nutrient.
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shadylane
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by shadylane »

Did you grind the raisins into a paste before adding?
My favorite yeast nutrient recipe, I got from pugidog
Some boiled yeast, a couple crushed multi-vitamins, a pinch of Epsom salts and DAP
Also a handful of crushed oyster shells from a feed store, for pH control

Edited
Sams club has 2 pounds of bakers yeast for $5
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by StillerBoy »

shadylane wrote:My favorite yeast nutrient recipe,
Some boiled yeast, a couple crushed multi-vitamins, a pinch of Epsom salts and DAP
+1 on this advise.. add tomato paste only if you want to add a mouth burn/bite to your spirit..

It's best not to use distilled water.. filtered, bottled, or tap water is best.. even with chlorine in it, just give it good stir with a paint stirrer and electric drill..

wineo's plain sugar wash is a super wash for a neutral with no bite.. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =14&t=6782

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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Pikey »

I always use straight tap water, straight from the tap, unless I'm recycling cooling water from the still - But there are a couple of things you don't mention here - Did you get plenty of air (oxygen) into the wort to start with ? (Yeast need oxygen in the aerobic phase, to breed up to viable colony size) - I realised a couple of days ago, I forgot to do that on one ferment, so I just stuck the fish tank pump in for an hour, when I did realise. Sorted ! Then Acid - you will hear much on here that "pH crashes" - maybe it does - I don't know. But also as Bluefish points out - Yeast likes and needs acidity to be happy. I always add a couple of teaspoons of citric to a 5-6 gallon ferment, it's not critical. And as NZC points out, a little calcium type impurities in the water is good, you can chuck a bit of limestone in there (CAlcium Carbonate), some Gypsum (Calcium Sulphate), a little slaked lime (Calcium Hydroxide) or the universally recommended "Oyster shells" (Calcium Carbonate again). Or you can leave it out but don't spend on "special water" in future !

Yeast nutrient - I buy mine off ebay ! Tronozymol does fine, but as long as it says "Yeast Nutrient" on the packet, I don't need to think about exactly how much chicken guano to add to the mix ! :shock:
Leatherface
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

Thanks for all the help! I put tomato paste and bread yeast in last night. Its working pretty good and has been since last night. I started this batch before I found this forum, my next one will surely be from the list of tried and true recipes. Thanks again to everyone who offered much needed advice.
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cranky
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by cranky »

D-47 Temperature range is only 59° - 68° F, Too hot can cause it to stall or give off flavors, drop the temp or switch to bread yeast if you want to ferment that warm.
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by As-Ol-Joe »

I have had a couple of 5 gallon ferments stall. The first batch I threw out after several attempts to bring it back. It finally came to mind to check th pH, turns out the pH was about a 2.8 and very slow to bubble, 1 bubble very 2 minutes. I went to the feed store and got some oyster shells and put 100 grams in each bucket. That did the trick. Bubbling about every2 seconds now. When I get some full range pH paper, I'll post the pH.
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by As-Ol-Joe »

I finally got some pH paper and tested my buckets this morning. The pH is in the 5 range and bubbling like mad. The oyster shell made a world of difference. I will throw some oyster shells in every batch from now on.
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Leatherface
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

Thanks again for all the helpful info. So I was able to make corrections and the wash fermented down to .96. It sat another 48 hours and I ran it yesterday. It smelled like bad perfume, really nasty. It proofed at about 130. It smelled a little less after I got a couple pints out but still not good. It was so bad I shut the heat off and didn't even finish running it. I did a sac run of cheap vodka cut with distilled water first and that seemed fine. Not sure if my problem was in the recipe or the way I ran it or both. I plan on trying the sugar shine wash from the tried and true recipes next. Any ideas on why I got the nasty smells?
Thanks
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bluefish_dist
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by bluefish_dist »

I often find a simple strip run in pot still mode to be a bit nasty. I would try running it again and see if it cleans up.
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HDNB
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by HDNB »

bluefish_dist wrote:I often find a simple strip run in pot still mode to be a bit nasty. I would try running it again and see if it cleans up.
+! even cheap vodka has been distilled to +95% so it's clean...your ferment would have been the same thing the cheap vodka went trough...about 100 distillation plates ago.

strip it all hot and fast, collect low wines 5 times, charge the still and get a nice flavoured product....if you are going for clean, collect it all again, rinse and repeat cutting with clean water.
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NZChris
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by NZChris »

The internet is a source of both good and bad distilling advice and it sounds like someone has given you false hopes as to what to expect out of a single run through a pot still.
Leatherface
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

NZChris wrote:The internet is a source of both good and bad distilling advice and it sounds like someone has given you false hopes as to what to expect out of a single run through a pot still.
Yes sir. I thought I would be able to get a decent product from a single run.
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

So the 130 proof I'm getting is a "low wine"? I've been reading on here and the parent site but I'm still confused.
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NZChris
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by NZChris »

If your total collection is 130 proof, you have left a fair bit of useful alcohol in the boiler. My low wines are anything between 80 proof and 50 proof, depending on what I'm making, and are never something you would want to drink.
Leatherface
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

So what do I do with all the 130 proof? Throw it out? Can someone explain the entire process or point me to a link that explains everything please. I have read quite a bit of the required reading and I don't seem to be able to find the information.
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NZChris
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by NZChris »

There's probably nothing wrong with it that a spirit run won't fix. If you are in a hurry for some drinking likker, dilute it to below 40% abv and run it again ..... after reading Kiwistiller's guide to cuts. Otherwise, save it to add to the next run.

I acquired a fermenter capable of holding four charges of ferment when I first built my still and seldom ferment less than three charges worth. It is still my most used fermenter.
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

Thanks NZ
I will add it to the next run. Do I still dilute it or just add to a wash before I run it? Or do I keep making runs until I have enough for a spirit run?
Everyone who has replied has been most helpful, I hope to obtain enough knowledge to be doing the helping some day
Thanks
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NZChris
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by NZChris »

You can distill it with the next wash without diluting. It's referred to as a 1.5 * distillation and can produce nice product.
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HDNB
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by HDNB »

NZChris wrote:You can distill it with the next wash without diluting. It's referred to as a 1.5 * distillation and can produce nice product.
+1 this will get you kick started, but in the future plan for strips / spirit runs...it will fill your hearts collection faster in the long run. kiwistills guide to cuts is important to understand, especially with 1.5x runs

if you are goin for a really clean vodka you may even need a dilute and re-distill of the spirit run...maybe more than once depending on your definition of "clean"

hold onto the feints, they got good booze you can squeeze later after your collection grows.
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NZChris
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by NZChris »

Whoops.

My 1.5 suggestion is for flavored product, not neutral. If you want neutral, you shouldn't be putting flavored stuff like brown sugar and raisins in the ferment. Look up Birdwatchers sugar wash.
Leatherface
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Re: Fermentation help?

Post by Leatherface »

I started wineos plain ole sugar wash last night, I will be sticking with the tried and true recipes for a while
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