Suggestions on pot still build/process

[Catopleba]

Hi everyone

as i've told in my presentation post, i'm in the middle of the definition of my still buil.

First of, what i would like to distill; i thinking about whiskey (i'm used to do grain mash, is 7 year I do beer in AG) and maybe some brandy (in IT is easy to find cheap wine); also if i found a good store to buy molasse i would like to try for rum.

I'm thinking about a 10l Pot still, just because this size fits great my homebrewing equip of 30l ( i'm thinking on a process with 3 wash runs and from them a spirit run )

I'm really terrible in soldering and othe DYH activities so i discard the idea to build one. Both for the kind of wines and for the avaiability on the markets i choose to go for a pot still.
From the experience I've read I prefear avoid chinese pot and go for a european copper pot. Also for what i read, I think i'm going to buy "coil build" instead of a "mushroom/aliquitar build".
Here comes my first doubt; on the site i've chosen there is the option to add 35-40cm additional column filled with copper mesh to improve reflux; considering what i would like to distill should add this optional be a good idea, or i could wait for that just in case I go also for more "clean" spirits?

As heating source i'm planning to use an elettric plate (no open flames to be safer). An 1,5 kW plate shuoul be enought, or is better choose a 2-2,5 kW one?

To avoid waste of water i would like to use a ricirculation pump in a vessel to feed the coiling pot. A 300 l/h pump will be ok for that task?


I thank you in advantage for any suggestion and I apologize for my poor english (I hope everything i wrote is clear)

[cuginosgrizzo]

Ciao Catopleba,

if you mean to distill whiskey, brandy and rum, then the pot still is the correct choice.

I would really suggest upping the size to at least 30L. Some are having good results even with 10L stills, but it is definitely harder to make cuts and painfully slower to build up a stock. Consider that with a typical spirit run of ì8L low wines @30%ABV you might get around 3 to 4 liters keep @65%ABV. Remember that you will not be able to run a full 10L especially during stripping runs, because of foaming and the risk of puking.

Yes steer away from chinese economic stills. If you really cannot build one, get a european all copper still.

I would not buy any packed column because you haven't got any reflux going on. During the run, once the packing and the column have reached the vapor temperature, the passive reflux you have is very little.

I heat with propane, because electricity is so expensive here, but if you resort to using a plate, check that it does not cycle (most of them do), meaning that it turns repeatedly on and off: this would cause, especially with a small still, huffing, surging and it would make difficult to perform a run.

300l/h pump is overkill. If you have a flake stand and worm, you just need to replace slowly the hotter water at the surface, pumping cold water from the bottom.

[Catopleba]

Thank you Cugino

My first idea was a 3 liter pot, but i've upscaled just to be able to make cut . I know I'm still in the smaller side of sizing but consider it as a "first try setup", to see how much it involves me ^_*
For the cut management I was thinking to split the distillation in 50/100 ml sample ( obviously cutting first 100ml as foreshot in both stripping and spirit run ). I know that probably at the end of the batch after the head/tails cut i would obtain only a coupple of liter of finished product, but for now i consider it ok

regarding the elettric plate, reading the datasheet it looks like has wattage control ( as soon i recive it i make a try; if it manage as on/of i could backup with home stove or propane )

for water management ok, i look for something slower ( or at least with flow control )

p.s.
( answering to your question on the welcome thread; yes is a voluntary misspell version of the elio song "charachter" catoblepa )

[OtisT]

Hi Catopleba.

1500 Watts should be more than fine for your 10L pot still. It will not be as fast as a larger heater, but it will certainly get the job done. You may want to consider a larger heat source if you choose a larger boiler.

The cycling of power mentioned is an issue for most hot plates. (Power switched on and off as the hotplate tries to maintain temp.) I have a 1,500W hot plate heating a 40L insulated boiler (~30L wash.) What this looks like in my still is a vapor temperature swing of up to 3-4 deg C each time the hot plate cycles on/off. A Heat Sync between the hot plate and boiler will help minimize/reduce these temp swings inside your boiler. For me, a cast iron heat sync from "Nordic Ware" that weighs 1.5 lbs (.7 kg) reduced my temp swings down to around 1 or 2 deg C. I also have a 3 lb (1.4KG) flat aluminum plate. This larger 3 lb heat sync eliminated any noticeable vapor temp swings.

You will loose some efficiency with a heat sync, so don't use the heat sync when Stripping. Only use it for spirit runs when you need more control.

Good Luck. Otis

[Catopleba]

Thank you Otis

I've just an update on heat source; i discover that my brother's wife has an unused 2kw induction cooker. So i'll get it and i just add an induction diffuser to make it usable with copper

[Catopleba]

I've done my cleaning runs yesterday; i've done a vinegard run and a sacrifice alcool run

Some problem i've had:
- the induction cooker doesn't work... after an half an hour it stopped going in safety mode; so i move to home gas cooker
- the head temomether looks really not helpfull. I've read that on a pot still head temperature aren't a good way to check the still process; but i hope that should give some information; instead i see it settled at 100°C from the beggining of the still til the end
- during the vinegard run i see some leaks, but i managed them whit some floor paste,

For the rest all went good; probably i stopped really too early on the alcool run. From a mix of beer and moscato wine ( it smeels really orrible :p ) of 7 liter at an approx abv of 7-8% i stopped after 1h30m with 1,2 l near to 25% abv.

I ask you some about some doubts:
- is the run speed ok for a first run? And how slower should i go in a spirit run?
- i put a wet cloth on lynne arm to get a little reflux (i read for this somewhere but i don't remember where..) ; is this procedure effective or is just a time waste?
- i also put a spoon of olive oil in the pot as antifoaming. Does it work, and does'n it effect the taste of finished product?
- I found that the pipe where the ditillated exit is a little to short. I attach a little piece of silicon tube. I've read that plastic tube aren't alcool proof. This shoul be a problem also in the exit line?
- and least but not last... ther is a way to easily remove floor paste residual from pot? ( i spent 1 hour to clean it o.o )

Today, after bottling an american amber ale, i prepare a 23l sugar mash ( going really easy just 5kg of withe sugar, a little of citric acid and a coupple of spoon of yeast nutrient ) and i put on the slurry remained from the beer fermentation. So i hope next week (or more likely within 2 weeks) i should go for a "real" run


Thank you all in advance

[HDNB]

- the induction cooker doesn't work... after an half an hour it stopped going in safety mode; so i move to home gas cooker
most will cut the safety out of a hot plate and use an external controller
For the rest all went good; probably i stopped really too early on the alcool run. From a mix of beer and moscato wine ( it smeels really orrible :p ) of 7 liter at an approx abv of 7-8% i stopped after 1h30m with 1,2 l near to 25% abv.
there is oil in the hops...in the beer...this may be hard to get out and leave a lingering bad flavour. you may need a caustic cleaning to flush it out

- is the run speed ok for a first run? And how slower should i go in a spirit run? keep experimenting to find the happy place for your still. mine is fast for stripping and just above medium for spirit...never "slow"
- i put a wet cloth on lynne arm to get a little reflux (i read for this somewhere but i don't remember where..) ; is this procedure effective or is just a time waste? works good if thats what you want
- i also put a spoon of olive oil in the pot as antifoaming. Does it work, and does'n it effect the taste of finished product? i understand butter works better
- I found that the pipe where the ditillated exit is a little to short. I attach a little piece of silicon tube. I've read that plastic tube aren't alcool proof. This shoul be a problem also in the exit line? lose the plastic. it's toxic after you melt it with booze.
- and least but not last... ther is a way to easily remove floor paste residual from pot? ( i spent 1 hour to clean it o.o ) what doesn't chip off easy will soak off with time.

[Catopleba]

thank you for your replies

luckly the beer had really few hops ( they were 5 bottles of a 2 years old weizen that i found in the basement )

talking about the tube, is the same doubt i've had, but considering that this run won't be drink i quick fix that logistic problem with silicon. For the first real run take off the silicon going for a little copper ( or inox ) "L" pipe

[greggn]

> A 300 l/h pump will be ok for that task?


Pay more attention to the vertical lift (head) specification than flow rate.

[Catopleba]

> A 300 l/h pump will be ok for that task?


Pay more attention to the vertical lift (head) specification than flow rate.

yes, i had to move up the bucket onto a chair because the vertical lift from the floor was to high

[Catopleba]

Today i made my first run... or better... I did 3 run :p

I distilled white wine ( for a total of 18l ). It looks like everything went really good.

I made 2 quick sprint run ( 7,5 l each ), and a spirit run (with the 4,5l from the 2 sprint and adding 3 l of wine using 1.5 distilling method). I set the power to 2kw for the sprint and to 800w for the spirit (i'm using an eletric hot plate so i assume a 60-65% power efficency that makes the power appox 1,2kw on sprint and 500w for the spirit )

I throw away 100ml from both the sprint and 150 from the spirit, and i finished with 29 100ml bottle and one 300ml bottle. They all will rest a coupple of days before I choose how to cut them; i smell everything during the run and i made some assumption about where the cut will be.

The only unexepcted think that happened was near the tail. When i reached 2,5l i thought i was dono so i power up the element. I found the smell ( and the taste ) of the first 2 bottle gained after the power up really interesting. I was starting to smell a little of wet cardboard on the previous bottle but this 2 were totaly different with a great and intense flavour ( sweet frutty notes like peach, mellow apple... ). Is this normal?

I share with you the note and the data i took during the spirit the run

http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... w&id=53500


Start 13:00
Start foreshot 13:30
End Foreshot 13:36
Qt. Foreshot 150ml

[NZChris]

When selecting the blend, make up samples of the prospective blends for tasting. I use a small dipper for this and to add the water to dilute to 40% or below. Sometimes a jar that doesn't taste great on it's own, does have something nice to add to the whole, so start with a blend of the obvious hearts, then add a dipper at a time from the ends until you find the jars that spoil it.

Sometimes it is worthwhile leaving out the cardboard jars but including the 'sweet water' that comes after them. If you are going to dilute to get to barrel strength, (I often don't have to for brandy), the sweet water can be a better option than water.

[sugar glut]

My previous home made pot stlll used a 19L ss pot ($20 at BigW) heated with an induction cooker. I highly recommend them as you cook by power setting. Ranges from 200W to 2000W. They're very energy efficient. Max weight allowed is about 12kg so the pot needs legs. I simply strapped the cooker onto the bottom of the pot. The IR hot plates work well too, but cost more.

[Catopleba]

Thanks you for yours reply

On cut i think i'm going to have the first selection today in the afternoon ( after 24h from distilling ) and choose what for sure is hearts and what for sure is feints. If i have still some doubt on some bottle i suppose to:
- for the one near tails to put a night on freezer and filter with cofee filter
- for the one near heads to let open for other 24 hour.

My problem with induction cooker is that my pot is all copper made. I tried to use an induction cooker (with a plate) during he vinegard cleaning run , but it stopped going in safety mode. So i bought a really cheap (20€) eletric plate and a 4kw RSS. As suggested in that thread (http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 85&t=45011) to avoid the on/of trouble i bypass the thermostat and connected the rss to manage the input voltage

Now i'm starting to thinking about aging. After cuts i hope to keep approx 2 liter of spirit. My idea is to take half a liter for a quick oaking ( 30-40 days ) and to let the rest to oak/age for at least 6 month ( i'd like also to go for 1year, but i don't think if i can endure for so long time :p ).
I'm really plenty of doubt concerning how much chips using ( i have already at home some whisky oak chip and some medium toasted one ). I've read really many articles on this process and after that the only fact i'm sure of is that in aging everyone has is own idea :p. I'll appreciate any suggestion

I'm also thinking to add a little of dried raisin ( al least in the "quick" aging one, just 10-20 gr. ). Should be a good idea to improve fruitiness flavour?