Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

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sugar glut
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Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by sugar glut »

The following is a description of how I cleared my white spirit of the watering-down cloudiness; technically, emulsification, or sapponification. The answer is plain facial tissues, Kleenex, snot rags, etc; unscented and of course unused. White coffee papers should work well too. Carbon granules are good at removing off smells and flavors, but do not reduce the haze. As shown below, there is no need to treat cloudiness when the final product is aged with oak chips. It is necessary when making say gin or other clear botanicals. These methods clear the haze at room temperature, although my G&Ts do stay clear even when icy cold.

The haze is caused by a small amount of yeast lipids (mostly triglycerides), fatty acids, and sterol-esters transferring from wash to distillate. These are only created in the wash, but other undesirable products such as acetates and simple esters can appear after distillation. The fats are fully dissolved in 60% alcohol but will start to accumulate in microscopic droplets (micelles) as the alcohol is reduced to 45% and lower. This is emulsification, which appears as a mild but annoying haze. If enough hydroxls are present the droplets may be converted to soap (sapponification) and the spirit will look like milk.

My white spirit, produced by double runs with a pot still, always developed an undesirable level of cloudiness after watering down to 40%. No matter what precautions taken the haze always came back, taking up to 2 days to fully develop. (Note that bicarb alone does not prevent haze.) Most of the spirit goes into making whisky, using toasted oak chips, but I also make gin and triple sec. The gin and sec always stay cloudy, but the whisky magically clears no more than 48 hours after adding the oak chips. I figured that the hardwood chips are fine grained and have very small capillary tubes that attract and store the lipids. I have a mounting pile of used oak and it seems a shame to throw the lot away.

Starting with 2-liters of hazy 40% spirit, I added 6g of depleted French oak which had been soaked for 3 weeks, and then soaked in hot clean water. The haze was gone in 24rs but there was a feint color and taste of burnt whisky. After the second distillation run the whisky aroma was just discernible, and carbon granules did no clear it. Mild botanicals like triple sec (triple distilled) and pear schnapps demand a very clean spirit.

Facial tissues are usually made from pulped and bleached hardwood, and also white coffee papers. (Australian tissues and toilet paper are made from 2000 year old Tasmanian hardwood forest trees, so should be perfect.) I added one tissue to 600ml of very cloudy gin. The gin was fully cleared within 24hrs. Even better, the gin flavor and aroma was not discernibly affected. In a further test, two tissues were added to 4L of cloudy spirit and it cleared after 2 days.

Adding gin essence to cleared spirit does add a tiny bit of haze, but nothing as cloudy as emulsification. A half tissue was very effective at removing the gin botanical haze from a 1L bottle without affecting the flavor at all. The tissues can be filtered out of the spirit by passing it through a funnel with a small tuft of cotton wool in the neck. Bleached coffee papers are tougher and may be removed with tweezers, and squeezed dry. Coffee papers can be used to filter particles, and a ribbed funnel is essential.

Cotton wool, while also cellulose, does not have the tiny capillary tubes of hardwoods, and it had no effect on cloudiness. Cotton wool is very good for filtering out tiny particles though; the continuous roll or ripple types work well. Pinch off a piece larger that the funnel neck and put it at the bottom, but not pushed in tightly. Run th alcohol through the funnel.

The bicarbonate of soda treatment, mentioned in the HD Stripping article, is very effective at converting ethyl acetate in the wash. Straight sugar washes will typically have up to 500ppm of this chemical which has a very low taste and smell threshold ... like acetone but stronger. The article recommends adding bicarbonate of soda to the distillate to convert the highly objectionable ethyl acetate. Acetates and simple esters mixed with water can sometimes produce a haze, but it's temperature dependent.

After some experimentation I found nearly all the acetate mass originates in the wash. Adding a modest amount of sodium bicarbonate (3g/L) to the finished wash 2 days prior to distilling is very effective at cleaning up the pesky acetate. Adding 1 or 2 desert spoons of dissolved bentonite to the wash also helps to clear yeast products, although it's less effective here than when it's used in wine. Needs stirring thrice in 24hrs. Setting the pH near neutral also inhibits further ester production.

--Summary--
My experimentation is not yet done. Presently I do the following to clear the haze:

1. Add bicarb and bentonite to the wash and stir 3x before distilling.
2. Do a stripping run to get 58% spirit. Optionally, soak one tissue per 2L overnight. If the pH is lower than 6.5, add a bit of bicarb, 1-2g/L.
Prevents new acetates forming. Untreated, the first run often has a pH of 5.5.
3. Do a second distillation run to produce 73% spirit.
4. Water down to 40% and add 1 or 2 tissues per 3L, and a pinch of carbon granules. Leave a week or so. Watering down should be done
first as it allows the max amount of lipids/fats to be removed.
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ben stiller
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by ben stiller »

Great write up. Nice to understand the science of what makes the spirit turn cloudy.
sugar glut
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by sugar glut »

The lipid stuff is taught in undergraduate viticulture and industrial chemistry degrees. My discovery is the ability of the fine capillaries in wood to clean out the muck. My pile of whisky--Limousine oak is now in the garden. I've been told it takes 300yrs to rot.

Most triglycerides boil at 250C or higher, but they do get into the distillate.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

Congrats you just made the wiki: http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Chill_Filtering" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks for this post. It's a great solution!
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NZChris
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by NZChris »

What washes are you making that cloud for you, Sugar Glut?

I ask because I'm wondering if you are talking about sugar wash neutrals.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by zapata »

I would just like mention a warning for peeps reading who may not know regarding the bicarb to the wash. Bicarb to low wines is almost always safe, but bicarb to wash *can (not always) lead to blue distillate which is not safe to drink.

So I tried a coffee filter in a few fingers of cloudy UJ. Tore the filter up a bit and let it sit overnight. It did not clear. Will try a tissue next. I wonder if it matters if my paper products are made from pine? I dont know if they are, just thinking pine is a southern thing. I'm gonna look funny going to whole foods asking if they have any toilet paper made from 2000 year old Tasmanian rain forests. But I'll pay extra!
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by NZChris »

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:Congrats you just made the wiki: http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Chill_Filtering" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks for this post. It's a great solution!
If it hasn't been tried and found to be true and useful by other members, linking to it at this stage seems premature to me.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by NZChris »

Give us a brand name for the tissues, Sugar Glut. I'll try to get a mate to bring some back.
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Danespirit
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by Danespirit »

Great write up...!
If experimenting confirms the results, it should be a sticky somewhere.
Hmm...I wonder what facial expression the clerk will have when I ask him for toilet paper made from 2000-year-old Tasmanian rainforests... :crazy: :wtf: :lol:
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by goose eye »

You tellin me yall cut down 2000 year old trees to wipe yalls tails.

So I'm tole
zapata
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by zapata »

Well I'll be damned, but a plain old kleenex tissue worked. Just tore a tissue up and left it in a glass with a few ounces, and sure enough a day later it seems crystal clear. Gotta admit Im surprised.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

NZChris wrote:If it hasn't been tried and found to be true and useful by other members, linking to it at this stage seems premature to me.
Yeah I should wait for others to report if it worked for them and to work out any kinks. I'll put a note with it as I don't want to forget this thread.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by zapata »

Im doing another test right now. Will share when its clear.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by zapata »

2nd test a partial bust. Added 1/32 of a tissue (equivalent to 1 tissue per quart) cut into strips to 1 ounce cloudy spirit at 40%, sat overnight. Added additional 1/16 tissue cut into strips, sat overnight. Thought maybe the cut edges were less effective so removed tissues and added 1/16 tissue torn instead of cut. After all that, better but still hazy. Gave up for now because I wanted that glass back.
Couple observations.
1. Tissues have very fine particles that suspend and look like cloudy spirit. Definitely requires filtering, not just removing the paper. The fibers are so small it didnt look like gravity was going to help anytime soon.
2. I wonder if temp matters? Realized these were sitting on a chilly window sill. Will try somewhere warmer next time.
3. Pretty sure it made some difference, maybe just needed more paper, more time, different temp, or something.

I dont mind cloudy spirit if they taste good except in gifts just for presentation and bottle appeal. Its also not a constant problem for me anyway. Will revisit since at this point my verdict is mixed.
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Re: DROP THE BENTONITE.

Post by sugar glut »

I use Australian tissues made from *bleached* hardwood, mountain ash and eucalyptus. I use both grain and pure sugar turbo washes. The tissues work fine for me. Others stated coffee papers did not work. I have ordered 100 Bunn white filters from the US to check it. They must have the tiny capillary tubes or it wont work. Tissues certainly leave a cloud of white dust, but it is easily filtered. My dust sinks to the bottom after a few hours. Temps certainly will matter.

Someone said bicarb in the wash can make blue spirit. I suspect the only source of blue is from the heated copper plumbing being corroded by sodium. I'm not aware of any simple organic sodium product. There are some sodium inorganic chemicals that act organics, but "blue" stumps me.

**DROP THE BENTONITE**
After much experimenting with bentonite I can say that it is detrimental to distilling, unlike for wine. It makes a thick grey cloud at the bottom of the wash which just won't settle. Too much of the wash, over 10%, gets thrown away. Bentonite attracts proteins in particular and if any of it gets into the boiler it will sink and sit on the heater element. The heater then burns the protein. A smell of burnt protein appears in the stripped spirit. (I was blaming the whisky-wood for the smell.)
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause & reflect. -- Mark Twain.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by sugar glut »

RE: blue distillate from excessive bicarb.

Copper ions are dislodged by peracetic acid (BP=25C) which could well end up as a feint blue in the distillate. (Copper oxide is dark red and will stick to the copper base.) Peracetic acid can be made from bicarb but only if there's a lot of oxygen and bicarb present in the wash.

No blue should occur in a stainless column and condenser.

Correction BP=105C
Last edited by sugar glut on Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by zapata »

I believe the potential for blue spirits is Schweizer's reagent. It happens with a combo of basic wash, nutrients and copper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweizer%27s_reagent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I'll give the tissues another try soon and report my results.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by sugar glut »

After reading about Schweizer's reagent I'm still leaning towards peracetic (or per-oxy-acetic), but only for the reason that it's simpler to make. There's not so much ammonia in the typical wash, unless it gets stripped from amino acids. Has anyone got a lab report analyzing a blue wash?

I've heard a lot of US paper products are recycled and this will decompose the cellulose fine structures. Any added cotton fiber will do nothing to clear the haze. Other papers worth trying are toilet paper, absorbent kitchen paper. Good quality plain office paper should be made from pulped hardwood.
Water is the only drink for a wise man. -- Henry Thoreau.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause & reflect. -- Mark Twain.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- BENTONITE A DOUBLE WHAMMY

Post by sugar glut »

After more tests on small batches of wash I find that Zapata's blue distillates are caused by ammonia (NH3) getting into the distillate., oddly more so in the second distillation. It seems the bentonite is again the culprit rather than the bicarb, but anything that increases the pH over 6 will cause a large increase in ammonium ions (NH4) and NH3 to transfer into the distillate. (My bentonite has a pH of 9 in solution.) NH3 and NH4 will always be present in washes, more so in turbo and grain washes, but are usually below taste threshold in both the wash and distillate.

The NH3 <-> NH4 ion ratio in a wash is very dependent on pH and temp. In mild acids NH3 is only 1:400. At ph=7 it's 1:100, and 1:50 at ph=7.5. Thus the bentonite was really upping the presence of NH3 in my washes. Bicarb was the lesser of two evils. NH3/4 are quite soluble in alcohol and the bentonite caused smellable amounts wind up in my distillate, after temps in the 80c-96c range. The NH4-carbonate? was the burnt smell I mentioned. After the second distillation, ammonia (NH3) was plainly obvious in the heads and was the result of cooking the NH4 in the boiler. The pH of the second-run heads was 10! If sufficient NH3+water is present then a copper column will be attacked and copper (II) hydroxide will appear as a blue tinge in the distillate.

At least ammonia is easily removed by carbon filtration. The moral is not to use bentonite or bicarb in the wash. Put up with acetates and esters.

I'm now looking at adding salts to washes that will convert NH3/NH4 to more harmless things and that will not accompany the alcohol into the distillate. NH3 in particular has some odd affinity with ethanol calcium sulfate (plaster of paris, or possibly Epson salts) will convert NH4-carbonate to ammonium sulfate. That sulfate is insoluble in alcohol. Epson salts will also clean up ammonia if a lot of CO2 is present, and that should be the case in a wash.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by sugar glut »

--Tests To Remove NH3 & Acetates--

To speed up experimentation I made white spirit batches with clean ethanol and added stock ammonia.
Acidification was done with vinegar. Other organic acids soluble in alcohol should work, too.

1. Aqueous salts chemistry does not apply in high ABV alcohol (40% +) since alkaline salts, including bicarb, are not soluble in white spirit. Unfortunately ammonia is miscible in all spirit strengths. Aqueous NH3 may be vented by adding caustic soda, or slowly converted to safer ammonium sulfate with gypsum or Plaster of Paris. These methods did work at all in 50% spirit. PoP appears to dissolve in a thick white cloud, but the cloud is easily filtered from the spirit with plain cotton wool, and the evil blast of NH3 shows up in the next head-cuts.

2. A stripping run with a pot still gives an ABV in the mid-50%. Bicarb does not dissolve in this solution so I suspect the conversion of acetates will probably be slow or non-existent. A small amount of bicarb (2g/L) in the wash did very effectively remove the acetate in a sugar wash (zero bentonite!), yet with no detectable transfer of NH4/3 to the distillate. Due to its strong pungency, acetate is easily removed in the head cuts of a stripping run. Even though ethyl acetate's BP is only 1C lower than the azeotrope, my pot still removes all detectable amounts of acetate in the head-cuts of the first run. Subsequent head-cuts show no acetate aroma. Thus if it is present, ethyl acetate is a very useful marker in stripping because you can be sure that all methanol and other foreshots have been flushed out. Ethyl acetate, ethanoate, nor NH4-salts are not toxic in small amounts. (If ammonia is present it will mask out all other aromas in the heads.)

3. Contrary to popular belief, carbon filtration does not strip ammonia from water, nor alcohol. It's better just to keep NH4/3 out of the boiler in the first place. If your stripping run gets a whiff of ammonia, strongest at the head-cut, the quickest way to fix it is to add some acid to the boiler. Cool the still enough, return the distillate, and add acid so the pH is 5-6. Acidifying with an organic acid works even on the second run when the wash is 60% ABV.

In an experiment, I made a 20% ABV wash with 2g/L of stock ammonia (simulating heavy contamination) giving a pH of 10. 30ml/L of weak cooking vinegar reduced the pH to 6. When distilled, there was no smellable vinegar nor ammonia in the distillate. Mid-strength distillate pH is usually 7+-1 depending on contaminants, so I will now make a habit of checking the boiler wash pH for the first two runs, and adding a bit of organic acid to get it down to 6.

4. Gypsum, PoP, or Epsom salts need to be tested under real wash conditions to see if they can reduce active NH4 ions to stable ammonium sulfate. Epsom in a wash makes (NH4)2-SO4 and MgOH. The dosage of salts to washes should be in the region of 2-6g/L. Fortunately, ammonium sulfate is acidic and so it's presence can only help. Adding Epsom salts to the ferment wash should not alter the pH by much, but check the pH is =<6 when distilling.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by Johnsmih1010 »

Personally I found big blue water filter housing with a series of filters work great especially for volume . I use a three filter set up with a 50/5 mic first (50 mic outside 5 mic inside ) then a 1 mic then .35 for submicron filtration . They are easily backflushed to clean them. You can run literal thousand of liters before they die and even then a good flush with citric acid or sodium hydroxide depending on matter cleaned
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by Johnsmih1010 »

Sugar ,and molasses do not produce methanol . Methanol is produced from pectin , or methyl esters of galactos ( bad spelling ) . After collecting feints from multiple sugar washes we ran pure feints and absolutely no methanol was produced . Just to be sure we had it tested at a local university on gas/liquid chromatography amd absolutely no methanol was produced
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by fizzix »

Is this the Big Blue filter you're referring to....?
blue.jpg
If so, the use of plastics is verboten here unless verifiably alcohol safe.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by Johnsmih1010 »

Yes that is the larger one, there is a 4x10" model I use
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

Post by sugar glut »

Johnsmih1010 wrote:Sugar ,and molasses do not produce methanol . Methanol is produced from pectin , or methyl esters of galactos ( bad spelling ) . After collecting feints from multiple sugar washes we ran pure feints and absolutely no methanol was produced . Just to be sure we had it tested at a local university on gas/liquid chromatography amd absolutely no methanol was produced
Methanol is very difficult to detect when immersed in ethanol. The standard lab test kits available will only detect 1% or higher. "Absolutely no methanol" means that your University has a Raman Scattering (SERS) machine, just like the first one built at MIT in 1997.

Sugar washes are noted for very tiny amounts of methanol. Blackstrap washes will have more since there is some woody/cellulose present. Grain washes, and grappa, contain much more methanol. I did not specifically mention sugar washes there.

If the Big Blue filter is carbon, then I could never get carbon to make a dent on the lipids. (Carbon will certainly not remove ammonia.) If it is a polypropylene wound element, the sort than removes 5 micron particles, then high % alcohol is perhaps not advised. Alcohol up to 50% is OK with PP or HDPE, but not higher. (There's nothing in the PP nor HDPE that is particularly bad though.) Filter setup is in the range of $100, that buys a lot of tissues. Oak is also it's own natural cleaner.

EDIT: Back flushing with caustic soda should make a lot of sticky flocculated soap, if the filter retains lipids. fat + lye = tons of soap
Last edited by sugar glut on Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- Use more tissues

Post by sugar glut »

* "Cloudiness" needs some quantification and reproducibility. In the absence of a turbidity meter, put 1mL of regular milk into a 3L glass carboy. It's surprisingly cloudy, and looks much like my stripping run (pot still) watered down to 38%. Apparent cloudiness increases rapidly with the diameter of the glass carboy; transmitted light decays exponentially with length.

* In the OP I had underestimated the number/weight of tissues needed to clear my spirit due to using small glassware. One tissue (0,25g) seemed enough to clear a 1L bottle, after filtering. However; a 3L carboy still showed some haze. One jumbo 3-ply tissue per liter (0,7g/L) made a 3L carboy look very clear after 48hrs. A large 7L carboy still shows a feint haze after treatment. Thus tissues may not remove all the different types of lipids and sterols, or the extraction rate slows down when the lipids are mostly gone. The extra tissue weight means better filtering is required. Tissues do, however, remove a very high % of the muck in a short time, and a regular 26oz bottle of spirit will look crystal clear. Removing fats and sterols from most organic solvents is neither quick nor cheap, and is an active study area for industrial chemists. (Read about transesterfication in biodiesel production.) Tissues are quick and cheap for the home distiller.

* After more tests I'm still undecided about the best time to use tissue paper treatment. It may work a little better after the final distillation run and after watering down to the desired %, below 45%. It is well worth doing a quick treatment after the stripping run as it gets rid of the bulk of the lipid muck early on, leaving glassware cleaner. The paper dust must be filtered out as any heating will extract the lipids out of the cellulose capillaries.

* Toilet paper also works, but makes a thick white dust cloud that needs careful filtering. White pop sticks (paddle pops, popsicle) still contain too much tanin to be useful. Bunn filters have not arrived yet, so no testing done.

*Lipids have high boiling points, over 200C, yet they appear in all stages of distillation output. The causal behavior in the vapour phase is called clumping. A lot of ethanol molecules stick to a much heavier lipid molecule and "float" it up the distillation column. It is not a normal azeoptrope. Each pot still run carries over 50% of the lipids/fats over into the new distillate, so repeated distillation is not efficient. (Ammonia clumps with water, and very strongly with ethanol, which is why it hangs around at room temperature.)

* The wash could also be cleaned with toilet paper to keep the lipids at bay, but the white dust would need to be filtered out before heating. There is also the problem of pectins and cellulose in the paper.
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Re: Spirit Cloudiness --- ammonia

Post by sugar glut »

* Don't use an electronic pH meter in spirit or it will damage the bulb. (Special bulbs are available for alcohol; pHe.) Litmus paper works correctly with any spirit strength. The 0.5 graduated paper (5 to 9) is the most useful. A stripping run should have a pH of near 6 if the wash was pH=5. (It's not the fatty acids that make the pH acidic.) Don't dip the litmus in the stock. Take a sample with a clean dropper and put a drop on the litmus. Measurement is very sensitive near pH=7.

* The 3rd distillation run should have a pH of 7. There will be no measurable NH3/4 if the wash was solidly acidic. To check for any NH3/4 in your finished product; take a small sample 20mL and water it down to 50% ABV or less with distilled water. Dissolve a pinch caustic soda so the pH is well over 9; caustic will dissolve in low spirit. Do this in another room as caustic soda is an escapologist and will quickly contaminate test gear. NH3 gas will be smelled if any NH3/4 was present in the sample. Wet a strip of 1-14 litmus with distilled water (not dripping wet) and hold it over the mouth of the sample jar with clean tweezers. Any NH3 gas will turn the litmus dark blue or violet. Tiny blue spots on the litmus are caustic soda contamination. For a correctly run distillation there should be no NH3/4 detected. The wet litmus may change from pH=7 to pH=8, but it will not turn dark blue/violet. Make sure testing stuff and fingers are clear of caustic soda as it's easy to get a false positive from the sensitive litmus.

* Regarding reducing NH4 in the wash by sulfating; Plaster of Paris has poor solubility in a wash of 15%ABV. Epsom dissolves OK but sulfating ammonium takes of order 1 week. Most of the available ammonium precipitates as (NH4)2SO4, and all the MgOH, making a cream colored precipitate. The precipitate is easily stirred up, and the heat of distillation will easily convert any remaining sulfate back to ammonia. You would need a reliable way of excluding the precipitate before this method will be viable. The only practical way to keep the evil ammonia at bay is to keep the wash pH low, say 5 or lower. It is also beneficial to leave the stripping run spirit pH at 6 or lower. If you need to reduce the pH, the weaker tartaric acid appears to be preferable to vinegar, as it's BP is much higher and has no reaction with ethanol. "Cream of Tartar" is not the same stuff.

* Yeast are responsible for most of the acetate production in washes, up to 500ppm, and it varies with time and temp. Lower temps yield a bit more acetate and a bit more alcohol. In matured washes, the yeast clean up their own acetate, presumably by oxygen stripping. Wine acetate levels are 120ppm and it is made by acidification of ethanol, and similar amounts should be found in a matured washes. Esters found in washes don't contain a metal cation so strictly speaking they are acetates.

* NH3 has a BP of -33C, yet it also clumps with water and even more strongly with ethanol. Thus an expected quick boil-off of NH3 does not happen. Evil NH3 becomes the docile NH4 under acidic conditions and NH4 will then bond to OH or carbonate, and no vapor clumping happens.
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