Sugarwash not coming alive

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DianaGin
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Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by DianaGin »

Hi there, it is the 2nd time I have a fail making a sugarwash.
I used the following recipe:
20L H2O
176 ml tomato paste
2/3 lemon juice of 1 lemon
4.5 kg sugar
56g bakers yeast.
I let my yeast wake up and start bubble before I add it to the rest of the fluids.
My SG was sitting around 1.10
Still waiting for my pH meter.
My first bucket went crazy for the first 2 days and is now after 7 days still releasing bubbles every 27 seconds.
All my buckers have fish tank heaters in them as we are in winter season.
I would really appreciate some input 😊
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NZChris
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by NZChris »

You may have an air leak.

What is the SG now?

What is the pH?

Feel the fermenters. Is the temperature even from top to bottom, or is the bottom temperature colder?

An SG of 1.100 is a bit greedy and can be a problem if you don't do everything else correctly.
Alcophile
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by Alcophile »

If it's sealed an SG not dropping I would guess it's too acidic for the yeast, my tomato paste washes did this, better after adding 2 or 3 tbsp of calcium carbonate powder. (I had a pH meter).
StillerBoy
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by StillerBoy »

Simply.. your SG was to high to start with.. and your Ph has put the yeast to sleep.. and research the TP/ BW thread as the answer are there in the thread..

Adjust the Ph with calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide to a 4 - 4.2 level.. add some watch to reduce the high sugar level..

Also do some research on stalled sugar wash, as there all kind of thread on this issue.. here's one to start your journey..
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79600

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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still_stirrin
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by still_stirrin »

DianaGin wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:23 pm...2/3 lemon juice of 1 lemon...
That’s a lot of citric acid for 20 liters of wash, especially with as much tomato paste as you’ve added. Tomato paste is often acidic too, so I doubt you’d even need to add more lemon juice.
DianaGin wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:23 pm...56g bakers yeast. I let my yeast wake up and start bubble before I add it to the rest of the fluids...
Well, that certainly is a lot of yeast, if viable. But rehydrating, as you did would indicate viability. Typically, I use 1 packet (11g) in a 20 liter wash. Perhaps, I might use 1-1/2 packets (3 packets split between 2 fermenters) for a little more aggressive first start to fermentation.
DianaGin wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:23 pm...My first bucket went crazy for the first 2 days and is now after 7 days still releasing bubbles every 27 seconds...
So, your thread title indicates a long lag to fermentation, but this description doesn’t coincide. I assume that the 1st bucket worked fine and your 2nd bucket is lagging, or not fermenting. So, I’d suspect that something has changed between the 1st bucket and the 2nd, such as improper pH, inadequate aeration/oxygenation, irregular temperatures, poor yeast viability, or...a leaky fermenter seal. A check of the gravity would tell you more...or even a quick taste of the wash to see if it’s still overly sweet.

Troubleshooting can be tricky especially if the processes are identical between the 1st bucket and the 2nd. You’ve got to retrace your processes, ingredients, and conditions to decipher the problem.
ss
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DianaGin
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by DianaGin »

NZChris wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:39 pm You may have an air leak.

What is the SG now?
Bucket that is "alive" and been going for 7 days is at 1.03.my 2 nee buckets (24 hours) is both at 1.08

What is the pH?
My pH meter is in thr post. I will only be able to test it on Tuesday (long weekend)

Feel the fermenters. Is the temperature even from top to bottom, or is the bottom temperature colder?
I have small fish tank heaters in it, so it is sitting at 30°C

An SG of 1.100 is a bit greedy and can be a problem if you don't do everything else correctly.
Thank you for your time, much appreciated
DianaGin
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by DianaGin »

Alcophile wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:33 am If it's sealed an SG not dropping I would guess it's too acidic for the yeast, my tomato paste washes did this, better after adding 2 or 3 tbsp of calcium carbonate powder. (I had a pH meter).
I followed the Birdwatcher recipe, just applied it to a 20 litre fluid.
Will add Cal Carb tomorrow. (21:56 here)
DianaGin
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by DianaGin »

StillerBoy wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:10 am Simply.. your SG was to high to start with.. and your Ph has put the yeast to sleep.. and research the TP/ BW thread as the answer are there in the thread..

Adjust the Ph with calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide to a 4 - 4.2 level.. add some watch to reduce the high sugar level..

Also do some research on stalled sugar wash, as there all kind of thread on this issue.. here's one to start your journey..
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79600

Mars
Much appreciated. I am slowly working throufh all the threads and topics. (and learning a new language too boot! Half of thr terms I read, I need to research and find out what it means!)
DianaGin
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by DianaGin »

still_stirrin wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:32 am
DianaGin wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:23 pm...2/3 lemon juice of 1 lemon...
That’s a lot of citric acid for 20 liters of wash, especially with as much tomato paste as you’ve added. Tomato paste is often acidic too, so I doubt you’d even need to add more lemon juice.

I did a Search to figure out how much juice is in one lemon! And took a mean average.
Everything I added was according to the Birdwatcher recipe. The recipe was for 80L wash, mine 20L.
DianaGin wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:23 pm...56g bakers yeast. I let my yeast wake up and start bubble before I add it to the rest of the fluids...
Well, that certainly is a lot of yeast, if viable. But rehydrating, as you did would indicate viability. Typically, I use 1 packet (11g) in a 20 liter wash. Perhaps, I might use 1-1/2 packets (3 packets split between 2 fermenters) for a little more aggressive first start to fermentation.

Thank you, will try that on the next lot I make.
DianaGin wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:23 pm...My first bucket went crazy for the first 2 days and is now after 7 days still releasing bubbles every 27 seconds...
So, your thread title indicates a long lag to fermentation, but this description doesn’t coincide. I assume that the 1st bucket worked fine and your 2nd bucket is lagging, or not fermenting. So, I’d suspect that something has changed between the 1st bucket and the 2nd, such as improper pH, inadequate aeration/oxygenation, irregular temperatures, poor yeast viability, or...a leaky fermenter seal. A check of the gravity would tell you more...or even a quick taste of the wash to see if it’s still overly sweet.

I made 1 bucket and a week later made 2 more wirh the idea of doing 3 x stripping still runs and then combine the total for a gin run. The first bucket (exactly the same amount of yeast, lemon juice and tomatopaste) is still fermenting and the SG is dropping. When I recreated it in this last batch (2 buckets) I encountered the problems. All 3 have fish tank heaters (same brand, same size) as we have an icy winter and my house is alwys cold since I enjoy being frozen ...

Troubleshooting can be tricky especially if the processes are identical between the 1st bucket and the 2nd. You’ve got to retrace your processes, ingredients, and conditions to decipher the problem.
ss
Thank you for you comments.
I have written down what I did with the first bucket. And then I went reading and searching through the forum for answers.
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NZChris
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by NZChris »

DianaGin wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:55 am
NZChris wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:39 pm Feel the fermenters. Is the temperature even from top to bottom, or is the bottom temperature colder?
I have small fish tank heaters in it, so it is sitting at 30°C
Fish tanks have aerators to force circulation, fermenters don't, so if a ferment is slow or isn't agitated, the wash below the element may not be getting heated, leaving the yeast bed sitting in a cold layer. Use your hand to feel for a difference.
StillerBoy
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by StillerBoy »

DianaGin wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:57 am I followed the Birdwatcher recipe, just applied it to a 20 litre fluid.
I don't know why lemon juice was used in the original recipe, but it is not really required, or at least not in the amounts quoted..

Tomato paste is on it own very acidic.. I don't know what 176ml is in relation to oz but estimate it to be about 7 oz, as I use only 8 oz in a 6.5 gal wash and I don't have to make a Ph adjustment at the start of the wash, which I start at Ph of 5.5..

So watch the Ph.. that the big killer is sugar wash..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
DianaGin
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by DianaGin »

Thank you. I actually re checked my calculations but found it correct.
Will delete the lemon juice in the next batch and add that or citric acid if the pH demands it.
Thank you for your response.
DianaGin
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by DianaGin »

NZChris wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:21 pm
DianaGin wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:55 am
NZChris wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:39 pm Feel the fermenters. Is the temperature even from top to bottom, or is the bottom temperature colder?
I have small fish tank heaters in it, so it is sitting at 30°C
Fish tanks have aerators to force circulation, fermenters don't, so if a ferment is slow or isn't agitated, the wash below the element may not be getting heated, leaving the yeast bed sitting in a cold layer. Use your hand to feel for a difference.
Thank you Chris. It is hanging in the centre of the bucket and when I touch the outside wall of the container, it feels even in temperatuur.
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Corsaire
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Re: Sugarwash not coming alive

Post by Corsaire »

I'd suggest another recipe.
I've only made birdwatcher's for cleaning runs so didn't really care all that much about it.

Your handle suggests you want to make gin, try out rad's all bran and ted's fast fermenting vodka. They've worked well for me.
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