Damn blue distillate - again

[ginjo]

I don't suppose you are using one hydrometer to measure both sugar in your wort and alcohol in your distillate, are you?

[Bagasso]

Nope, I got both. The must hydrometer and the calcs on the parent site tell me that my wash is at 10%. The other measurments are done with my off by 24ºF Proof and Tralle hydrometer temp corrected taking into account the -2º C digital thermometer.

[ginjo]

To hazard a guess, I'd say that the scaling for your temperature correction is off. Am I getting that you need to raise the temperature of store-bought liquor by 24F in order for your hydrometer to read the label value? And this is for water as well? Possibly your sugar hydrometer is off as well - have you tested a standard reference that is roughly the same range as your original gravity? I don't know what is going on in your case, but it is a sure fact that 10% wash will have 55% vapor above it. Did you measure the strength of the distillate in those jars you listed above? Perhaps you are indeed getting some passive reflux. I packed just a bit of mesh in my pot column once, and it increased the strength of the distillate several percent. This is with running at normal speeds, and no induced reflux.

[Bagasso]

As far as the thermometer I checked it using ice and boiling water along with two other thermometers (spring) the other two read correctly and the digital read low by 2ºC so in boiling water reads 98ºC. I don't use the other 2 because they face up and it's a pain to read them. I'm at an altitude of about 800ft so that would be less than one degree difference and the digital thermometer has a resolution of one degree so not much there.

Don't need to raise the temp of store bought because the hydrometer reads right at about 84ºF so it's right around room temp. I just temp correct from there. As far as my wash, all sugar, 37 lbs in 100 liters should actually be 9.9%. I would have to add 19 extra pounds of sugar or underfill my fermentor by 30%, neither is something that would be considered just a small variable, to get the 15% wash to coincide with the chart.

Of course there is always some passive reflux but you say you used mesh and it raised the strength by several %. I'm talking about an 18% difference with nothing in the riser.

The fact is that I cut my run when I hit 97ºC (95ºC on my therm) your saying that the chart says there is 4% in the wash but the volume collected and calculated using vapor temp and the chart says I had gotten 98.3% leaving 1.7% in the pot. My hydrometer says that I got 99% of the available ethanol and that 1% remains in the pot. This was calculated by checking the next day once the distillate had gotten up to room temp of 78ºF, so temp corrected for 6ºF from 84ºF which is where my hydrometer reads dead on.

[The Baker]

Don't know the answer, don't fully understand the question, but:
has anyone let the remaining wash cool down to the 20 degrees celsius measuring temperature (while in the still, to prevent evaporation of any remaining alcohol) and then tested the alcohol content of the wash? As well as checking the alcohol content of the very last part of the distillate, for comparison?
If you test the wash for alcohol and then measure the volume of the wash you will know the amount of alcohol remaining, at that concentration, and then you can figure the amount of pure alcohol (at 100 per cent).

[Barney Fife]

The alcohol content will be so low as to be practically immeasurable.

[scarecrow]

I made up some citric acid solution (about 2 teaspoon in a litre of water) and poured it into the coil and left it there for about half an hour and flushed with clean water.

Did this twice. First time the liquid was dark blue, second time a pale blue.

I then flushed with clean water again and gave it a blow dry with the compressor. All clean and dry. When I looked down the coil, it sure got a good "etched" look, and it looks like a new penny.

Ran another double batch of UJSSM through the pottie as a stripping run (3 rings flat out on the banjo).

This time I took "cuts" at various points. All was going well (started at mid 60'S ABV%) untill it hit 40%. It started with the usual cloudiness and not a tinge of blue to the naked eye. I filtered the 40% - 30% through a cotton ball filter and ended up with a slight blue tinge on the top of the cotton plug. Re filtered and it was clean as, so I'm happy with that.

I also checked 30-20% and 20-10% but never got the blue plug again. Got plenty of oil floaties though (tails).

As it stands, I'm happy with the acid wash and flush it got and I think the compressed air helps keep it dry, but I'm at a loss as to why the blue came out only at the 40-30% mark (give or take a few %).

At least I'm back in the saddle and makin' some nice Bourbon again.

scarecrow

[emptyglass]

I was getting some small dark particles in my hearts.

Did a simple blow in the coil test after the run and found I had low spots in the coil. I had suspected a few winds when I made it. Got a big gush of grog left in the coil when I blew into it.

I had been leaving it in there between runs, obviously it corroded the coil somewhat.

I did a dilute vinegar clean, got heaps of blue vinegar/water solution out of it.

Now I blow it out after a run and just try to make sure I get all the product out at the end. New coil is on the list.


As for the other stuff, theres too many variables to go comparing apples to apples. Are all thermometers in the discussion calibrated, as are measuring jugs, hydrometers and the like? What about a traditional pot still, a pot still with an angled top for mild reflux, or a reflux still in "pot" mode. I could never get less than 65%abv from a boka in pot mode, I get 55% from a traditional pot.
Gotta make sure we are comparing apples.

[sterlingchap]

Barney's logic rules.....
to prove it, all you need to do is record the %ABV, the Volume collected and the energy input (KWH, pounds of Propane or whatever) over an entire run, all with respect to Time.
You will see the Law of Diminishing Returns for yourselves....
Sure, a single shot of extra alcohol might be recoverable, but it might be a very expensive extra shot.
Chap

[The Baker]

Barney's logic rules.....
to prove it, all you need to do is record the %ABV, the Volume collected and the energy input (KWH, pounds of Propane or whatever) over an entire run, all with respect to Time.
You will see the Law of Diminishing Returns for yourselves....
Sure, a single shot of extra alcohol might be recoverable, but it might be a very expensive extra shot.
Chap

On my re-vamped pot still it gets slower and slower toward the end of the run, and the alcohol content gets lower and lower; I'm sure I am collecting past the point of it being worthwhile, even at 25% to 30%.

[HeadCase]

This is one of the most informative threads I have seen on here. Even though there is a lot of contradiction between members, it really shows a lot of possible ways to read abv and troubleshooting mashes.

As a newbie, thanks!

[blind drunk]

I had some blue distillate come through this morning. In my case, the source is the worm. Usually after a run I spray water through my worm for a good little while, as well as throughout my column ... I forgot to water out my worm the last time I ran my rig and the this morning the first 150 ml was a nice shade of iridescent blue. Threw it out and everything is back to normal.

[T-Lam]

I realize this is ancient, but have to ditto on this being a great discussion and I only stumbled across it as I'm getting ready to clean out a newly-purchased copper alembic ... now I'm thinking of flushing the worm out with citric acid as a prophlyactic (especially since I have some lying around)

[shadylane]

Looking at the old posts, the pictures looked like a minor puke or tails, not blue distillate.

T-Lam
Welcome to the forum.
There's many ways of cleaning the inside of copper.
The last step is always a sacrificial run or two or three.

[Kareltje]

Looking for a clue about my blue found this thread. For me it is not again but a first.
Yesterday I stripped 7 ltr of a rum of 12 %ABV on my copper still, copper spiral and ss cooling spiral. No problem. Ran it to 4 %ABV out of curiosity.
Today I stripped almost 7 ltr of the same rum on the same copper boiler and copper spiral but now with a copper cooling spiral. Today running to 3 %ABV and focused on some other things I wanted to test. (thermometers, inner diameter of cooling coils, heatflow). Down to 56 %ABV things looked normal. The next sample - 360 ml of 40 %ABV - was misty and slightly blue. The following samples were clear and also blue.

I gather from several sources this might be copperacetate or coppersulfate. I gathered from literature that acids are distilled with the tails, so it makes sense.

It suprised me, because
1) a copper boiler and a ss cooler did not give me a blue product,
2) an iron boiler and a copper cooler never gave me a blue product,
3) a copper boiler and a copper cooler did give me a blue product.
The problem can not be the state of the copper cooler, for if it would have been corroded, the blue would have been in the first samples.

I will try this again after cleaning the copper spiral with vinegar.
I will try to clean the blue distillate by electrocution: replacing the copper by iron.

[cranky]

Looking for a clue about my blue found this thread. For me it is not again but a first.
Yesterday I stripped 7 ltr of a rum of 12 %ABV on my copper still, copper spiral and ss cooling spiral. No problem. Ran it to 4 %ABV out of curiosity.
Today I stripped almost 7 ltr of the same rum on the same copper boiler and copper spiral but now with a copper cooling spiral. Today running to 3 %ABV and focused on some other things I wanted to test. (thermometers, inner diameter of cooling coils, heatflow). Down to 56 %ABV things looked normal. The next sample - 360 ml of 40 %ABV - was misty and slightly blue. The following samples were clear and also blue.

I gather from several sources this might be copperacetate or coppersulfate. I gathered from literature that acids are distilled with the tails, so it makes sense.

It suprised me, because
1) a copper boiler and a ss cooler did not give me a blue product,
2) an iron boiler and a copper cooler never gave me a blue product,
3) a copper boiler and a copper cooler did give me a blue product.
The problem can not be the state of the copper cooler, for if it would have been corroded, the blue would have been in the first samples.

I will try this again after cleaning the copper spiral with vinegar.
I will try to clean the blue distillate by electrocution: replacing the copper by iron.

Doesn't sound like a problem to me. Every run I do has that blueish cloudy jar of tails somewhere around the 35-40% mark. I'm pretty sure that's just normal tails. Don't know why it wouldn't show up with with stainless steel but I've never run SS.

[Kareltje]

I always get a white cloudy jar around 35 - 40 %ABV, but never blueish and never saw clear blue tails of lower then 35 %ABV.

Do you suggest it goes away when you do a spirit run with it?

[Hound Dog]

Does anyone that keeps copper only on the ascending side and runs all stainless on the descending side ever have blue distillate? Just curious.

[Kareltje]

I ran it again and this time all was well, until the very last sample, that had a slight blueish note.

Past two days I stripped a birdwatcher with the same still and got very clear, clean, colorless low wines all the way down to 7 %.
So it must have been the wash.

[skow69]

2) an iron boiler and a copper cooler never gave me a blue product,....
I will try to clean the blue distillate by electrocution: replacing the copper by iron.

What do you mean by "iron"?

[Kareltje]

2) an iron boiler and a copper cooler never gave me a blue product,....
I will try to clean the blue distillate by electrocution: replacing the copper by iron.

What do you mean by "iron"?

Iron! Simple.
Like described in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow.
And like the common understanding: things made mainly of iron.
Fe.

I really do not understand why you ask this question.

As I said: I think the problem was in the wash, but I unfortunately am not able to test the same wash in my iron boiler with my copper cooler. Would have liked to do that.

[Hound Dog]

Iron Man!

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[skow69]

Iron is generally frowned upon for use in stills because it rusts. You may have noticed that the most common materials are copper, stainless, and glass. All nonferrous.

[Kareltje]

I made my still some 25 years ago and used it several years with pleasure and satisfaction, both for me and my consumers.
A few years ago I started this hobby again and used my still again with pleasure.
The pleasure I have with my present still is more about the design and flexibility than about the material.

But of course you are free to frown upon whatever you want. As I am free not to join you in that.

[skow69]

Iron Man!

download (1).jpg

https://youtu.be/Q-jJVlLbdT0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

H. Dog, I'll see your man and raise you a 'noid.



Yeah, that's the stuff. A fuzzbox, Orange stacks, and plenty of reverb for Ozzy.

[Hound Dog]

Iron Man!

download (1).jpg

https://youtu.be/Q-jJVlLbdT0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

H. Dog, I'll see your man and raise you a 'noid.



Yeah, that's the stuff. A fuzzbox, Orange stacks, and plenty of reverb for Ozzy.

Hell yea! And Ridin' that Crazy Train baby! I still can't believe they made a commercial for the Honda Pilot family truckster out of that one!

[mulligan]

Too much nutrients can allegdly lead to the blues http://homedistiller.org/wash/ferment/nutrients

[jb-texshine]

Anybody else noticed when there is a blue distillate it is usually a still with a worm condenser... coincidence? Thoughts?

[Bagasso]

Anybody else noticed when there is a blue distillate it is usually a still with a worm condenser... coincidence? Thoughts?

After testing low wines and realizing that they can be acidic and since acids dissolve the copper's patina, I would say that it is no coincidence. A little pooling might make it even more pronounced.

[jb-texshine]

Anybody else noticed when there is a blue distillate it is usually a still with a worm condenser... coincidence? Thoughts?

After testing low wines and realizing that they can be acidic and since acids dissolve the copper's patina, I would say that it is no coincidence. A little pooling might make it even more pronounced.

I dont believe its just coincidence. I think ill read back through alot of the blue distillate posts and see how many were from worm and how many were with "other" condensers.
Should i discount or include the ones where excess nutes ot turbo were the cause?