Pot still with dephlegmator

[dime]

I've been gradually improving my still since starting this hobby and now I'm trying to add more reflux. I thought adding a condenser over my thumper would work well and after doing a bit of searching it seems this is what dephlegmators do. I've made a little sketch of my plan and wanted to get some feedback before building it.

Its a little dark and hard to read my writing, but what i would be adding is the coiled pipe above the thumper (the rest is how my still is now). It would be enclosed in maybe a vinyl tube or a capsule made from pvc and I'd put a little pump in my 5 gallon bucket condenser to move water through it.

Anyone think this would be a decent addition? If it matters, I'm really only trying to make a better rum, not a neutral.

[Ian Jay]

I am no expert, but I doubt if it would fly. You appear to have a vertical liebig condenser coming off the thumper, so you have effectively killed the vapour trail there. That being the case, your large coil is not doing any work and can be done away with.

[dime]

I am no expert, but I doubt if it would fly. You appear to have a vertical liebig condenser coming off the thumper, so you have effectively killed the vapour trail there. That being the case, your large coil is not doing any work and can be done away with.

It's supposed to condense the vapor coming off of the thumper, that puts it in reflux. Then when I'm ready to begin collecting I can turn off the pump connected to the condenser, allowing the vapor to bypass the dephlegmator (might be a liebig, i'm not exactly sure what it'd be called) and continue on to my big bucket condenser (forgot the name of that one too )

[Ian Jay]

Have I got this right? In theory, the hot vapour leaves the thumper and is cooled by the condenser, then drops back into the thumper, and is cycled again - until the water running the small coil reaches temperature to allow the vapour to pass to the big coil which is sitting in the resulting hot water?

I'm thinking ...
Where is all the energy coming from?
What work is the big worm doing?
How long will it take for the condenser to allow the alcohol to pass?

Have a look at Rad's still.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =17&t=8439
Very efficient, relatively easy to build, and adaptable.

[dime]

That's basically it. Except of course I wouldn't let the water in the product condenser become hot. I'd be changing it or adding ice to keep it cool.

Where is all the energy coming from?

Energy for what? For the thumper to continuously heat the condensate and boil it? That'd be the same energy that lets the thumper do it's job in the first place, heat from the main boiler.

What work is the big worm doing?

The big worm is condensing the final product.

How long will it take for the condenser to allow the alcohol to pass?

Well with the pump constantly cycling in cold water, I should be able to keep it in reflux until I turn off the pump. However I'm not sure how long I should wait before doing that.

I've read over that thread many times. But I'm running everything on my stove top and don't have the headspace for a column, which is why I'm trying to get column grade reflux without the column.

[LWTCS]

Your Idea will add a percentage point or two, help reduce smearing and flatten out the run curve.

Be mindful that a return drain to the primary will prevent flooding should you swamp the secondary with too much reflux.
Can also use the dephleg to self fill the thumper.

Have you seen my tunable thumper configuration?

[dime]

Flooding was my main concern. And I haven't thought of a decent way to add a drain.That seems to be the problem with this horizontal layout.

I have seen your videos, had never heard of plates or dephlegmators before them lol

[LWTCS]

Need to get your thumper elevated is all.
And also add a trap to prevent bi-pass.

"Plates" is a refernce to where a distillation happens BTW.

[rad14701]

Yeah, that thumper has got to have a way to overflow back into the boiler... The reflux beyond the thumper could essentially kill it's ability to perform properly as it receives refluxed spirits far cooler than normal parasitic induced reflux temperatures... It would take some serious fiddling to have any benefits outweigh the complicated operation... I'm sure it could be done but with the need to raise up the thumper you have to question whether it's worth the complexity...

My personal opinion is that you are over-complicating things to account for what you see as the inability to go straight up off the boiler... You don't have to go straight up from the center of the boiler... You can either angle off the dome, which I assume is a mixing bowl, or you can use a flat boiler lid with the vapor port offset towards the front of the stove to miss what sounds like a range hood...

[Ian Jay]

This makes more sense to me:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =16&t=9702

If space is a problem, then scale it down.

Perhaps a little more work, but a very practical design, imho.

[dime]

It is a hood over my stove thats limiting me.

About killing the thumper: I thought I might coil the lynn arm inside of the thumper. If the coiled pipe can boil the ice water in my 5 gallon bucket then i'm sure it wouldn't have a problem heating the thumper.

Also, my boiler is very small, only 12 quarts. My current thumper is maybe a quart and would certainly need a drain, but I was considering just getting a small stockpot to replace it. Then it would be large enough to handle all of the distillate.

This makes more sense to me:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9702

It looks like he did something similar to what I had in mind, in how he coiled the pipe around the thumper to provide more heat. I was planning on coiling it inside of the thumper though.

The only thing i'd really need to add this is 5 bucks worth of copper, a 7 dollar pot, and some plastic tubing. and it seems simpler than switching things to a vertical layout. Would it really not be worth it?

[rad14701]

dime, a 1 quart thumper would be a bit small for a 12 quart boiler... Thumpers are generally 1/3 - 1/2 the boiler volume... You need room for ample vapor along with the liquid volume... Going with something more the the 3 - 4 quart range would be a better option if you are still leaning towards using a thumper with dephlegmator...

[dime]

I've been planning on replacing it. I can't even run past medium heat without the damn thing puking I got it because it actually consists of 2 compartments, and I thought the separation might be beneficial.

Found an 8qt ss stockpot at wally world for 7 bucks. With a full boiler I might get 2 - 3 qts of distillate, so that should be a sufficient volume to not worry about a drain right?

[Prairiepiss]

I've been planning on replacing it. I can't even run past medium heat without the damn thing puking I got it because it actually consists of 2 compartments, and I thought the separation might be beneficial.

Found an 8qt ss stockpot at wally world for 7 bucks. With a full boiler I might get 2 - 3 qts of distillate, so that should be a sufficient volume to not worry about a drain right?

If you didn't put a dephlagmater on top of it.

[rad14701]

I've been planning on replacing it. I can't even run past medium heat without the damn thing puking I got it because it actually consists of 2 compartments, and I thought the separation might be beneficial.

Found an 8qt ss stockpot at wally world for 7 bucks. With a full boiler I might get 2 - 3 qts of distillate, so that should be a sufficient volume to not worry about a drain right?

Yes, but you still need to address the puking issue because that just isn't normal... You are looking to use that extra chamber as thumper, not a puke box, right...???

I could probably make my rig puke in pot still mode if I cranked the heat up higher than I know it can handle... There is a spot on my electric stove dial that works for heat up and another that you don't go past once the boiler charge is up to temperature... I don't try seeing what will happen if I tempt fate...

[Ian Jay]

Philosophically, the challenge may be here:

"The only thing i'd really need to add this is 5 bucks worth of copper, a 7 dollar pot, and some plastic tubing. and it seems simpler than switching things to a vertical layout. Would it really not be worth it?"

End of discussion?

[rad14701]

Sometimes you've just gotta put solder to copper, if for no other reason than to say you've done it or to soothe the soul...

[LWTCS]

http://youtu.be/oS28yrkjntM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[LWTCS]

Wait wait wait, you don't ride motorcycles! I'm ashamed to associate with such a low life!

Would if I could.

I have the soul to do so,,,,but not the funds to ride what I would prefer to ride

[MuleKicker]

Wait wait wait, you don't ride motorcycles! I'm ashamed to associate with such a low life!

Would if I could.

I have the soul to do so,,,,but not the funds to ride what I would prefer to ride

ohh come on LW, vespas arent that expensive

[LWTCS]

Haha
Vespa!

Beach cruiser more like it

[dime]

http://youtu.be/oS28yrkjntM

I didn't realize that you ran that rig without the plates. That gives me a bit more confidence in adding the dephlegmator right over the thumper

Yes, but you still need to address the puking issue because that just isn't normal... You are looking to use that extra chamber as thumper, not a puke box, right...???

I'm assuming its happening because of my 3/8" pipe. The vapor's coming out too hard and when it hits the charge in my thumper the bubbles just go crazy. The extra chamber, I thought, would fix that problem since it would keep the bubbling from getting to the output pipe. But it only reduced it.

If you didn't put a dephlagmater on top of it.

Why would a thumper that size need a drain even with the dephlegmator? Even if I left it in full reflux for the entire run, the thumper would be able to hold everything and have room for about 5 more quarts.

Philosophically, the challenge may be here:

"The only thing i'd really need to add this is 5 bucks worth of copper, a 7 dollar pot, and some plastic tubing. and it seems simpler than switching things to a vertical layout. Would it really not be worth it?"

End of discussion?

I wouldn't say end of discussion, but yeah. For me that's reason enough to go ahead with it and see what happens for myself. As larry said in his video.

[LWTCS]

When run as a typical thumper,,,more often than not there will be very little liquid remaining in the thumper at the conclusion of a run...Especially with my rig as I get really good thermal transfer.

But when incorporating the forced reflux you will be retaining much more liquid and the thing can and will flood if you are not minding your P's & Q's. I flooded to dog doodoo out of mine prior to installing the drain.

[dime]

Just wondering, is it significantly beneficial to have a thumper with a dephlegmator? What if I just put the dephlegmator right over the boiler? I'd think that would still produce a more pure distillate than a standard column.

Edit:
After a little more thought, cycling the vapor through a thumper should be a lot faster than cycling through the boiler. So I guess that answers the question.

[Canopus]

Hello to everybody.

I want to show you the design of a my new pot still that can be used with shallow doubler like "aromator" and dephlegmator for finest cut in one or two destilation. For now, I made a basic pot of 80 liter capacity of stainless steel. I intend to powered by 10kw gas burner. Dephlegmator would like to make from copper to take advantage of its catalytic properties.



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Sorry for bad english.

[Bushman]

Canopus, that is a pretty sophisticated pot still and is also your first post. Can we get you to go to the welcome center and introduce yourself so we can properly welcome you to the forum?

[Prairiepiss]

Looks like a commercial setup? Will you have a way to bypass the thumper section. For a straight pot still run?

[Canopus]

Thanks for the welcome. With you I have been here for years, but little knowledge of English is my limiting factor. Accelerated learning and I believe that I will succeed. I understand everything, but can not express it the right way. Sorry for off topic.
The main pot still (on pic), I worked 3 months. I used a stainless steel sheet 1.5 mm, buy the door for loading mash, and TIG power unit 160A. Next in line is the creation of other components of the diagram. I believe I will finish this project for about 6 months.



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To bypass Thumper intend to simply remove the sludge return pipe (threaded into the outer tube), and bypass for dephlegmator
with diverting cooling water out of condenser. For ordinary distillation, maybe make a special tube directly to the condenser.
If you have a better suggestion, I'll be grateful for advice.
...sorry my English

[Prairiepiss]

By your diagram you could come off the top of the boiler to a 3 way valve. One outlet to the thumper. The other straight up to the inlet to the product condenser. So one value position it sends vapors to the thumper the other position sends it direct to the product condenser. Many of the commercial stills are setup like that.

That's some nice work by the way. Pretty fancy for a hobby still?

[LWTCS]

Need to get your overflow solution below the liquid level of the primary boiler.........Beyond that,,,,I think I love it........unless I am not looking at your diagram correctly..