ss pot to copper frustum

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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grousehunter
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ss pot to copper frustum

Post by grousehunter »

OK my eyes are bleeding and I still have a still question. Are there reasons to not have a stainless steel pot, say 10 gallon size with a tapered copper frustum head fitting directly into the cylindrical pot and sealed with oatmeal and flour paste? Would be easily removable for cleaning the pot. The head would of course be followed by a lyne arm, thump keg, and worm condenser. Please set me aright. This would be my first attempt. Originally wanted to build all copper but I don't want to risk wasting good copper on my first build.
Last edited by grousehunter on Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by spirit run dave »

Only concern I would have is putting a copper cap on stainless steel broiler with a thumper and a oatmeal/flour paste holding it. Thumper puts a lot of back pressure on the boiler. See it on moonshiners all the time. Good question waiting to see what the pro's say
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by corene1 »

You mean something like this. This is my first still and it has made many a gallon of fine whisky without a problem. I started with some clamps to hold the seam then installed some stainless over center type clamps that were adjustable to clean it up a bit.
P8030027.JPG
PC140009.JPG
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by jb-texshine »

corene1 wrote:You mean something like this. This is my first still and it has made many a gallon of fine whisky without a problem. I started with some clamps to hold the seam then installed some stainless over center type clamps that were adjustable to clean it up a bit.
P8030027.JPG
PC140009.JPG
Damnit girl! That's a wonder to behold. You thought about a side career as a still builder? I've seen lots of smaller and questionable stills going for 400to 600 bucks. Just a thought.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by skow69 »

The charge in your thumper would have to be 27 inches deep to create 1 psi pressure in the boiler. Be careful what you see on Moonshiners.
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by city shiner »

easy you make still from turkey fryer whiskey di…: http://youtu.be/_Xl3loopL7Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. Always thought this was a cool video
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by grousehunter »

corene1 wrote:You mean something like this. This is my first still and it has made many a gallon of fine whisky without a problem. I started with some clamps to hold the seam then installed some stainless over center type clamps that were adjustable to clean it up a bit.
P8030027.JPG
PC140009.JPG
Thanks. I now know it can be done. I'm going for a more traditional looking frustum with a round top and the arm coming out of the side underneath the very top. Nice job and thanks.
Last edited by grousehunter on Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by grousehunter »

skow69 wrote:The charge in your thumper would have to be 27 inches deep to create 1 psi pressure in the boiler. Be careful what you see on Moonshiners.
Please explain what you are telling me.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by still_stirrin »

grousehunter wrote:
skow69 wrote:The charge in your thumper would have to be 27 inches deep to create 1 psi pressure in the boiler. Be careful what you see on Moonshiners.
Please explain what you are telling me.
Simple...the pressure build up (back pressure) results from the liquid level in the thumper since the boiler has to "push" the vapor out through it. Assuming the liquid density in the thumper is approximately what water is, the "liquid head differential" in the thumper will be 1 psi for roughly 27 inches of liquid depth....roughly 1 atmosphere (14.5 psia) for 33 feet depth.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Wow, Corene, that is some fine copper work, a real beauty.
I hadn't seen that one, thanks for posting.

You idea will work fine, grousehunter, just add some clamps of some kind to hold it together.
I would say that if you can fab the fustrum and lyne arm you can certainly fashion the boiler too.
That gives you an opportunity to go larger, say 20 gallons, and stay all copper ta boot. You would never regret the increased capacity.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by skow69 »

grousehunter wrote:
skow69 wrote:The charge in your thumper would have to be 27 inches deep to create 1 psi pressure in the boiler. Be careful what you see on Moonshiners.
Please explain what you are telling me.
That was a reply to the statement above that, "Thumper puts a lot of back pressure on the boiler. See it on moonshiners all the time." Still_stirrin gave a good explanation. I just wanted to point out that the pressure is usually not a big problem because it typically amounts to only a fraction of one psi, so it doesn't need to affect the boiler design.
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

I don't know much about any of this, but as I'm reading this:

My 10 gallon pot has a diameter of 14".
That's comes out to about 150 sq in.
13" deep thumper would produce 1/2 psi, or around 75 lbs.

Is that right?
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by grousehunter »

Thanks all and thanks skow69 for the lay mans clarification. I am now actively looking for the right pot to build the head to. A friend has a line on a sheet of copper, hoping it is still available. He is a plumber, roofer , jack of all trades and master of most. My neighbor and friend is a retired microbiologist and blacksmith. With their and the HD forum's help, I hope to have my "decorative demonstration water still" ready by this spring.
Now any ideas, plans or drawings on how to set up the wood burning kiln would sure be welcome. I am thinking of a trench for the fire, cast iron grate to hold up the pot and bricks stacked or mortared some distance off the pot for the flue to try to keep the scorching down. Thanks again.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by jb-texshine »

Make sure you use fire bricks.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by grousehunter »

jb-texshine wrote:Make sure you use fire bricks.
It will be outside. Are we worried about exploding bricks?
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

grousehunter wrote:Are we worried about exploding bricks?
Yes.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by Pesty »

city shiner wrote:easy you make still from turkey fryer whiskey di…: http://youtu.be/_Xl3loopL7Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. Always thought this was a cool video
All you have to do is get a copper 1.5 or 2" tri clamp ferrule and put that on the top and you can connect anything from there
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by grousehunter »

I just want my frustum head to slip fit DOWN INSIDE my boiler pot and seal it with grain flour paste. Old school KY mountains.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

75#
I wouldn't trust just flour.

Edit: I should say that I wouldn't trust flour to hold the cap in place. With a thumper there would be enough pressure to shoot that cap off like a toy rocket.
You should plan to have some kind of mechanical clamp or catch. Flour will seal for leaks just fine.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by Snackson »

grousehunter wrote:I just want my frustum head to slip fit DOWN INSIDE my boiler pot and seal it with grain flour paste. Old school KY mountains.
I like the way it was done in the video posted by city shiner up earlier. That seems like an excellent way to do it. The guy was able to lift it up by just a slip fit.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by nerdybrewer »

corene1 wrote:You mean something like this. This is my first still and it has made many a gallon of fine whisky without a problem. I started with some clamps to hold the seam then installed some stainless over center type clamps that were adjustable to clean it up a bit.
P8030027.JPG
PC140009.JPG
That was Corene's first, you should see her more recent work...
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by corene1 »

I have never had even the slightest signs of a leak with my old still I did a pressure test on it once at 1.5 psi and nothing, a little bit of movement in the larger surfaces but no leaks at all. Let me clarify that it was a hydrostatic test It was filled with water first and air was applied to it so no large pressure release if something fractured. I made a lip on the cone by forming a flat lip on it then rolled a ring the size of my boiler ID and bent a 90 degree flange on it. then set them together and joined those 2 pieces to make a sleeve with a 1/2 inch lip. I also clamped that lip to the lip on my boiler making sure that it was a strong connection between the 2 pieces. This is a pic of the first generation design of the first still I change the top later.
002.JPG
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Re: ss pot to copper frustrum

Post by city shiner »

Pesty wrote:
city shiner wrote:easy you make still from turkey fryer whiskey di…: http://youtu.be/_Xl3loopL7Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. Always thought this was a cool video
All you have to do is get a copper 1.5 or 2" tri clamp ferrule and put that on the top and you can connect anything from there
My thoughts exactly.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by city shiner »

As a side note corene's builds are beautiful!
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by spirit run dave »

Thanks skow69 I was saying I seen it on moonshiners and didn't agree with it.Sorry for adding confusion.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

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corene1 wrote:I have never had even the slightest signs of a leak with my old still I did a pressure test on it once at 1.5 psi and nothing, a little bit of movement in the larger surfaces but no leaks at all. Let me clarify that it was a hydrostatic test It was filled with water first and air was applied to it so no large pressure release if something fractured. I made a lip on the cone by forming a flat lip on it then rolled a ring the size of my boiler ID and bent a 90 degree flange on it. then set them together and joined those 2 pieces to make a sleeve with a 1/2 inch lip. I also clamped that lip to the lip on my boiler making sure that it was a strong connection between the 2 pieces. This is a pic of the first generation design of the first still I change the top later.
002.JPG
This photo of your old still look ALOT like what I had pictured in my head except with the rise of the top not so high. So was this first still of yours open to the air or did you have it in a chimney/flue? I am still looking for a good way to set one up with bricks for use with wood heat and get a controlled burn.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by skow69 »

MichiganCornhusker wrote:75#
I wouldn't trust just flour.

Edit: I should say that I wouldn't trust flour to hold the cap in place. With a thumper there would be enough pressure to shoot that cap off like a toy rocket.
You should plan to have some kind of mechanical clamp or catch. Flour will seal for leaks just fine.
MCH, You are thinking of 75# of thrust, like what comes out of a rocket. In this case 75# is the amount of static weight that a 150 sq. in. piston could support if there was 1/2 psi pressure in the cylinder below it. Or you could say that if you put a 75# weight on the 150 sq. in. piston, it would compress the air below it a tiny bit until it reached equilibrium at 1/2 psi. The pressure pushing outward on the cylinder walls trying to burst the cylinder is 1/2 psi.

Consider how it would change if your boiler diameter was 20" for a cross section of about 300 sq. in. You would need 150# of weight to reach equilibrium at 1/2 psi, but that doesn't mean it would be twice as hard to keep the cap on. In either case the pressure trying to burst the vessel would still be 1/2 psi.
Distilling at 110f and 75 torr.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by grousehunter »

Snackson wrote:
grousehunter wrote:I just want my frustum head to slip fit DOWN INSIDE my boiler pot and seal it with grain flour paste. Old school KY mountains.
I like the way it was done in the video posted by city shiner up earlier. That seems like an excellent way to do it. The guy was able to lift it up by just a slip fit.
This is a very nice vid on copper forming that I can use with mods for my future build. Thanks city shiner for the link and Snackson for pointing it out.
So much left to learn but I think the journey will be fun!
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by corene1 »

grousehunter wrote:
corene1 wrote:I have never had even the slightest signs of a leak with my old still I did a pressure test on it once at 1.5 psi and nothing, a little bit of movement in the larger surfaces but no leaks at all. Let me clarify that it was a hydrostatic test It was filled with water first and air was applied to it so no large pressure release if something fractured. I made a lip on the cone by forming a flat lip on it then rolled a ring the size of my boiler ID and bent a 90 degree flange on it. then set them together and joined those 2 pieces to make a sleeve with a 1/2 inch lip. I also clamped that lip to the lip on my boiler making sure that it was a strong connection between the 2 pieces. This is a pic of the first generation design of the first still I change the top later.
002.JPG
This photo of your old still look ALOT like what I had pictured in my head except with the rise of the top not so high. So was this first still of yours open to the air or did you have it in a chimney/flue? I am still looking for a good way to set one up with bricks for use with wood heat and get a controlled burn.
Originally it sat on top of the burner . Later I dropped the burner down inside the blocks and set the boiler on the blocks , this made it a bit more efficient and it used less fuel per run. My newer ones set on top of a burner but have a ring around them and the burner to make them a bit more fuel efficient. I have never used wood for a heat source.
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Re: ss pot to copper frustum

Post by grousehunter »

corene1 wrote:
grousehunter wrote:
corene1 wrote:I have never had even the slightest signs of a leak with my old still I did a pressure test on it once at 1.5 psi and nothing, a little bit of movement in the larger surfaces but no leaks at all. Let me clarify that it was a hydrostatic test It was filled with water first and air was applied to it so no large pressure release if something fractured. I made a lip on the cone by forming a flat lip on it then rolled a ring the size of my boiler ID and bent a 90 degree flange on it. then set them together and joined those 2 pieces to make a sleeve with a 1/2 inch lip. I also clamped that lip to the lip on my boiler making sure that it was a strong connection between the 2 pieces. This is a pic of the first generation design of the first still I change the top later.
002.JPG
This photo of your old still look ALOT like what I had pictured in my head except with the rise of the top not so high. So was this first still of yours open to the air or did you have it in a chimney/flue? I am still looking for a good way to set one up with bricks for use with wood heat and get a controlled burn.
Originally it sat on top of the burner . Later I dropped the burner down inside the blocks and set the boiler on the blocks , this made it a bit more efficient and it used less fuel per run. My newer ones set on top of a burner but have a ring around them and the burner to make them a bit more fuel efficient. I have never used wood for a heat source.
Looks as if most have gone to gas or electric these days. Nothing wrong with that but I want to see what I can do with a wood burner. If it doesn't work out then I can always throw a propane burner under it. I'll keep searching topics but haven't found any applicable drawings or ideas so far.
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