Stripping on grain with thumper

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
ShineRunner
Swill Maker
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am

Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by ShineRunner »

I want to start this a place to track some things for an experiment I'm about to start working on. I also need a little input.

I've seen a little variety in the methods people strip/use the thumper. MCH filters and puts the murky slops in the thumper, but no grains. He did steam strip grains and found that they were pretty rough and wasn't worth the cleanup for grains. Seemed to clear up in the spirit run though. Seems like shadylane's done similar, but I haven't seen specifics on his results. Truckinbutch said they haven't tried running grains in the thumper yet. I know others have done this, but I'm hoping to add to the discussion.

I'm picking up a new 55 gallon barrel mash tun/fermenter tomorrow. I'm planning on doing maybe a 30 gallon AG bourbon. My rough plan at this point is to do a 3 way experiment on stripping them. I'm thinking I'll do about 10 gallons of cleared wash, stripped as usual. Then I'll do about 8 gallons of cleared wash in the boiler and maybe 2-3 gallons of grains and muck in the thumper. Last iteration would be whatever's left- I'm thinking probably another 8-10 gallons worth of grain and muck in the thumper stripped via steam. I would then take those low wines and do a spirit run of each on my small 5 gallon pot.

Guessing about 2.5 gallons of low wines from the first two runs. No idea how much will get squeezed out of the grains.

Questions-
1. For those that have done batches this big, is that a reasonable expectation for the amount of grains left? Biggest I've done is a 12 gallon batch and I'm trying to scale up in my mind. I usually do 2-2.5 pounds/gallon Should be about 70 or so pounds of grain. Guessing that to take up about 10 gallons of space?
2. I've seen some people puke when stripping about 10 gallons of grain in thumper. I'm planning on adding either fermcap or butter to that mix to help avoid that. Any other suggestions?
3. Any other aspects of this experiment that I may be missing?

Sorry for the long winded post, but hoping to be of some value with this experiment.
ShineRunner
Swill Maker
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by ShineRunner »

Also, a little background: I've been running an electric keg setup for a while now. I just finished up building a modular thumper/steamer/etc still based on MichiganCornHusker's setup. I guess we think a lot alike and I love the ability to add or remove pieces as necessary. We also like to experiment to find what works best. The biggest difference between our setups are that I have a 4" opening on top of my flipped-over keg thumper. Bottom drain is through a 2" butterfly valve. Very nice.

Since my steam input goes through a 2-4" concentric reducer, I couldn't have a hard L-shaped injector wand. So I just had to do a 90 with a stainless mesh hose, similar to shadylane's old injector. It works, but I have a slightly higher fill level. May have to rework it, but that's not really the point of this thread..
ShineRunner
Swill Maker
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by ShineRunner »

I got started on this over the last weekend. New barrel cleaned out and settled on a grain bill of:

50# cracked corn- ground to probably coarse meal in my corona (50 pounds through a corona is a lot!)
15# rye malt
6.5# red wheat malt
3.5# chocolate malt

I've made the grain bill without chocolate before, and really liked it. I'm not sure how the chocolate will go, but after reading some posts from SCD and MCH, as well as der wo's 100% specialty thread, my taste buds were craving something extra in there.

Started with 20 gallons of warmish tap water and added corn, steamed it's way up to 185 degrees. That took 3 hours and was as long as I could stand! I was wondering about adding all the grains initially to help sanitize them, but didn't want to risk lowering my pH too much. I usually end up at around 6 with just the corn.

I added the sebstar at about 165. Kept steaming and then let it sit for about an hour, uncovered it and let it chill down to 148 or so. Added malt and adjusted pH with citric acid. Mashed for a couple hours and then added ice and cold water. Used all my ice and only got it down to 110, so I left it overnight to cool. I only added a total of 29 gallons of water and had a disappointing OG of 1.064, so we'll see how it goes.. I think my enzymes might be getting a little weak. They're about 1.5 years old but have been stored in the refrigerator. Pitched us05 the next morning. That afternoon it was starting to churn and had a chocolate-burnt-acrid smell. Much worse than the AG mashes I have done in the past though. Seems to be going away with some time.

I used lactic acid in the initial warmup and perhaps that is some of the smell that's present- other than the chocolate. I have never used it before, but after re-reading Jimbos wheat bourbon recipe, I thought I'd give it a try.

Anyways, looks like I will likely have less volume than originally planned. Not necessarily significantly though. I'm still hoping for about 10 gallons of cleared wash, 8 gallons cleared plus 2-3 gallons grains/murk in thumper, and about 8-10 gallons of grain/murk to be steam stripped in the thumper. Will hopefully report back with results of those strips in a few days.

SR
User avatar
MichiganCornhusker
retired
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:24 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Looking forward to your impressions of the grain strip low wines.
Mine were pretty funky but they did clear up with spirit run.

The main reason I gave up on the grains themselves was their bulk.
They would fill up the thumper and I would need to do more runs.
My rinsing and straining routine is quick and easy and it saves me a stripping run or two.
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me...
ShineRunner
Swill Maker
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by ShineRunner »

Understandable. I squeezed my last batches and vowed to never do that again. Your strainer looks like a sweet deal as well, but the boss is putting a limit on my new toys..

My goal with this experiment is to see if all three iterations end up with similar tasting final product. If so, then I would size my batches so that I could do 2 strips of maybe 10 gallons cleared in the boiler and then say 5-6 gallons of grain/murk in the thumper. It wouldn't be an additional dedicated steam stripping run, but 2 strips out of a 30 gallon batch. Same as squeezing/straining that 30 gallons and stripping twice, without the straining! That's my hope anyways.

SR
User avatar
MichiganCornhusker
retired
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:24 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

If you don't mind running your still, there is nothing easier in the world than just dumping dregs, trub, grains and all right in the thumper and steam stripping it, either with clear wash or just water.
If you are going to do spirit runs anyway, the funky low wines from the debris run will clean up just fine, in fact you might find them even more flavorful in a good way.
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me...
User avatar
Truckinbutch
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by Truckinbutch »

MichiganCornhusker wrote:If you don't mind running your still, there is nothing easier in the world than just dumping dregs, trub, grains and all right in the thumper and steam stripping it, either with clear wash or just water.
If you are going to do spirit runs anyway, the funky low wines from the debris run will clean up just fine, in fact you might find them even more flavorful in a good way.
Don't want to hijack this thread that is running parallel to the one SRD and I are running . This is a question that he and I have been kicking back and forth .
You are saying to run the dregs (yeasts and other solids that escape filtering media)that settle in the rack buckets in the thumper .
Are the yeasts any concern for off flavors ?
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
ShineRunner
Swill Maker
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by ShineRunner »

No worries. I'm hoping for some discussion! I'll let MCH answer as far as the yeast contributing off flavors. I think he's run it through before... From some of the reading I've done,it seems that there are some vague warnings of this happening, but nothing that I've seen actually experimented with. If it has, hopefully someone will chime in.

I'm intending to test this theory out either way. I am planning on running absolutely everything through the still- cleared wash, yeast, grains, everything. Testing them all as separate runs with different stripping techniques and comparing the results. My batch is still fermenting, so I'll probably have to run them next week or weekend.

SR
User avatar
Truckinbutch
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by Truckinbutch »

ShineRunner wrote:No worries. I'm hoping for some discussion! I'll let MCH answer as far as the yeast contributing off flavors. I think he's run it through before... From some of the reading I've done,it seems that there are some vague warnings of this happening, but nothing that I've seen actually experimented with. If it has, hopefully someone will chime in.

I'm intending to test this theory out either way. I am planning on running absolutely everything through the still- cleared wash, yeast, grains, everything. Testing them all as separate runs with different stripping techniques and comparing the results. My batch is still fermenting, so I'll probably have to run them next week or weekend.

SR
I'm hoping he will answer before morning . Otherwise , I'm going to find out first hand tomorrow . Come , bleed , or beat a blister ; it's gonna happen . :crazy:
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
User avatar
jedneck
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3769
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: drive to the sticks, hang a right past the sticks amd go a couple more miles.

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by jedneck »

I have in the past stripped on the grain with steam injection. And will in the future if i start runnin again. To my taste i cant taste yeast. All my bottles at the last gathering here were ran on the grain
welcome aboard some of us are ornery old coots but if you do a lot of
reading and don't ask stupid questions you'll be alright most are
big help
Dunder
User avatar
Truckinbutch
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by Truckinbutch »

jedneck wrote:I have in the past stripped on the grain with steam injection. And will in the future if i start runnin again. To my taste i cant taste yeast. All my bottles at the last gathering here were ran on the grain
Good enough for me . That custard scum that settles out is gonna get mixed up and dumped in the thumper to be steam distilled instead of spending hours filtering out .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
User avatar
MichiganCornhusker
retired
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:24 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

I would really like to hear you guys impressions about the yeast/custard affect on flavors.
I've run big batches different ways and was able to keep separate spirit runs to compare.
I am pro-custard, go for it.
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me...
User avatar
Truckinbutch
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 8107
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:49 pm

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by Truckinbutch »

MichiganCornhusker wrote:I would really like to hear you guys impressions about the yeast/custard affect on flavors.
I've run big batches different ways and was able to keep separate spirit runs to compare.
I am pro-custard, go for it.
A Master has spoken ! You just saved us a hell of a lot of work and we will start comparisons tomorrow .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
ShineRunner
Swill Maker
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 am

Re: Stripping on grain with thumper

Post by ShineRunner »

Well, here's a little update on this. It's going to be a little longer before I can compare these. I think I pushed my US05 a little too hot and got some nasty phenols. Smokey, ashy, bandaid nastiness so far. I fermented mid 70s with it and knew better, but got anxious. I'll try bakers yeast next time. Could also be he previous contents of the barrel- sausage casings. Smelled a little of a briney/smoky flavor, but seemed ok. Perhaps not.

Out of my 29 gallons of water and 75 pounds of grain, I got a somewhat disappointing bit of low wines. I steam stripped 2x10 gallons of unsqueezed grains in the thumper. Those 2 amounted to 3.25 gallons of 26% low wines. Did a traditional strip of about 10 gallons of cleared beer and got about 3.5 gallons 28%. Both smell equally stinky, but I still believe that's the phenols.

I just did a spirit run on my small pot of the grains low wines and I can't even bring myself to make cuts on them. Wife suggested I don't toss them just yet, so I may try to dilute them and see if another run cleans it up any. If not, I don't have a reflux so it may just get pitched. Don't think I'll be able to clean it up enough to make a pot stilled neutral/vodka, but maybe.

I'm still going to try to spirit run the cleared wash and see what that tastes like. If it's any better, then I guess that tells us something. More than likely, it will be too rough as well. I'll update as I do that though.

Think my plan is to step back and try to let the barrel air out in the sun. From some of the others that have had garlic and olive barrels, seems like that's the main thing that works. Time, sun, air.

I'll start another batch of this recipe in my smaller 20 gallon barrel and make sure it's not the recipe. Then I'll do a sugar head in the 55 gallon barrel once it seems clear. Maybe whiskey, maybe gerber something destined to be vodka..
Post Reply