Inefficient new still

[TryCoserious]

Man, I'm sad and puzzled, and about to head into angry territory. I've made a bunch of delicious rum in the past, using my small 1.5 gallon homemade pot still. It used a flake stand, and I tended to get near-100% efficiency out of it. That is to say, I'd make a 5-gallon wash at 20% ABV, and wind up with just over 2 gallons of final product at 40% ABV.

About 2 months ago I decided to treat myself to a larger, store-bought still and bought this thing. https://shop.distillery-equipment.com/c ... 7124749894" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I attached a copper pipe to the outflow end, hooked it up to a powerful aquarium pump running ice water through a 60-qt cooler, and put it on my propane cooker at very low heat. I was really excited until I ran it, and my first 5-gal wash at 20% produced less than a gallon of final product. For my second run I crimped the end of the copper pipe a bit, and made extra sure to keep my flame low and the ice water extra cold. The Liebig condenser was so cold that it was constantly sweating through the entire run, which took about 3.5-4 hours. I got the same results. For my third run, I luted the joint where the copper tube attaches to the condenser (even though there should be no alcohol vapor at that point), crimped the copper tube down to just one little hole, was manic about keeping the ice water super-cold, and kept my flame so low that it almost went out. Same results. In contacting the company, they suggested "Maybe more ice in the cooler might help. Check to see if you are losing vapor out of the output tube. Best Regards,"

I'm pretty much at a loss. I'm thinking I can maybe stuff some copper mesh into the condenser tube to slow the flow of vapor and provide more condensation surface area. And maybe the propane cooker is just too hot, but the run doesn't seem to be going too quickly. Any suggestions, folks? I was leery of such a short condenser tube after having used so much copper tubing in my old flake stand, and I'm hoping I didn't just waste my money on a good-looking, well-built, inefficient still.

[Danespirit]

There is nothing wrong with your still.
Quick answer...you get what you get.
To elaborate:
It's somewhat difficult to calculate the actual outcome of the run.
You CAN calculate how much alcohol there should be in your wash/mash, but you won't be able to recover 100% of it, regardless of still type...never..!
Some of it will always stay in the boiler, as it would be pointless to waste a lot of energy to get the last few % out of your boiler (you would also end up with distilling not much more than water).
You can use the calculators on the parent site, they are ok accurate.
Now another issue I stumbled upon, is the way your cooling works.
You will risk shock cooling and a lot of huffing from a "super cold" condenser.
There is NO need for any ice water and definitely not to cool that much, your condenser is "sweating" all through the run.
The equipment you've bought looks fine to me and should resemble an excellent pot still for years to come.
A copper extension on the take-off is a good idea, but DON'T crimp it that much you barely have a hole in there...what if that small hole blocks???
Edit:
Btw..a wash that has 20% ABV, is unheard off. You'll have a lot of crap produced by the yeast..!
Speaking of yeast ...ordinary yeast will die at that Ethanol concentration, what did you use, and how did you determine the ABV...?

[Yummyrum]

I'm pretty convinced that there is nothing wrong with your still . The run time with the amount of wash and the amont of cooling would indicate that you ertainly weren't overdriving it .
Unless therewas uncondensed vapour coming out the end then everythng boiled was condensed if you are sure there were no leaks .

I wonderhow you deem that the run is finished with both your new and old still ?
My gut feeling is that your wash did not ferment out fully and therefore there wasn't enough alcohol to begin with .
Did you make three separate washes for these three runs or did you split a sngle large wash into three ?

Not sure how you are deeming your wash to be 20% abv to begin with . That is a really high wash abv which most here would agree results in discusting byproducts being created . Are you using a turbo yeast ? Or are you determining it with a beer/wine hydrometer ? Remember that they don't measure correctly in a thick wash with mollases in it .

Incidentally it is dangerous to start crimping off the end of your still

[dieselduo]

It looks like the wash to me. What was the OG and FG ?

[TryCoserious]

Thanks for the quick responses! Let's see, I'll try to address the points raised in these three replies... I used a Turbo yeast (I know, I know, yuck) for a couple, and Champagne yeast for a couple, and used molasses and sugar at rates that should come out to about 20% ABV after fermentation, according to the tables I was using. Ran the washes until very dry, no sweetness detected. I actually let them ferment for a few weeks in my wine chiller until they only passed a bubble through the airlock every 20-30 seconds. And while I never checked OG/FG, producing just over a gallon of 40% ABV hooch from a 5-gallon wash means that it must have approached that intended 20%. The three runs that I describe in the new still are three separate 5-gallon batches. I used the exact same recipe for the wash as I've always used, at the same temps and using the same equipment.

I determined the end of the run by what was coming out: cloudy, watery, crappy juice that didn't smell too great. The last pint of the run measured about 15-20%ABV or less. My old still didn't have a thermometer, but this one does, and it was reading just a hair over 205F when I decided to call it quits each time.

I'll take your advice and widen the hole in the copper tube, not keep that water so cold, and maybe I can manage to keep the flame just a little lower. It just makes zero sense to me that using the exact same recipe and amount of wash as I've always used to make 2 gallons of "monkey rum", I run it through this new still and get less than a gallon. Something ain't right.

[yakattack]

What's the recipe?

[TryCoserious]

5lbs sugar, 1 gallon unsulphured amber molasses, 5 gallons water in a 6.5-gal carboy. I know it's extra work, but I do rack it off the lees after the initial fermentation slows down, and then siphon it off the lees into the still to leave the goop behind. Works out to about 5 gallons of wash at the end.

[Pikey]

So 1 gallon (US) molasses = somewher around 2 kg sugar + 5 LB = 4.5 kg sugar. to 5 gallon water - Ain't gonna get you anywhere near 20% wash - lucky to get 10% imo
[Edit - and you have o wait until it STOPS - not "slowing down" - You'll get there - but expecting too much atm.]

[corene1]

Just curious your first post mentions a bit over 2 gallons at 40% from 5 gallons of wash a latter post mentions a bit over a gallon of 40% for the same amount of wash. A bit over a gallon makes sense to me as that would indicate about a 10% wash. 5 gallons of 10% would give a possible .5 gallons of 100% or 1 gallon of 50% take away cuts and the gallon of 40% seems more likely.
It does seem that you are getting a pretty standard result from your wash and the still looks just fine to me. You may want to start keeping track of your starting and finish gravities just to double check your procedures and help with your calculations.
I agree with the others tthat you should not crimp the end of the output tube but rather use some copper mesh to slow the vapor flow for better condensation of the vapors and avoid ice water this will create huffing and shock cooling.

[HDNB]

So 1 gallon (US) molasses = somewher around 2 kg sugar + 5 LB = 4.5 kg sugar. to 5 gallon water - Ain't gonna get you anywhere near 20% wash - lucky to get 10% imo
[Edit - and you have o wait until it STOPS - not "slowing down" - You'll get there - but expecting too much atm.]

math's off a bit Pikey. a gallon of mole ass has about 4kg sugar (high grade) and 5lbs of sugar has about 2.26kg of sugar so about 6.26kg of sugar total. would be about OG 1.09 in a 26L water and produce around 14% abv

of course the OG will be skewed by moleass solids, to read a higher potential. also a crappier grade of mole ass can have substantially less sugar in it.

there are yeasts that will do it, but they'd be hurting.

0.7 gallons of pure, maximum, diluted however you like.

[thecroweater]

You are getting what you got . That wash in that still should be double run, what you got is slow collected low wines. You really should be stripping these washes and you can do that fast without much regard to the abv%. These are low wines and when you have enough of them you can do a slower spirit run which with your still will result in hearts at around 65% abv. You will need to get a handle on cuts and fractions and the methods for collecting to achieve that.
I only know of one widely available yeast bred to work at 20% abv and higher (24 to 25%) and even the suppliers will say its not suitable for distilling. Most yeasts that work well with sugar molasses etc are best not pushed beyond 10 to 12% abv, after that it will stress.
Yeast eats sugar and pisses hooch, stress it and it will take a big ole steaming dump in ya wash

[Truckinbutch]

You are getting what you got . That wash in that still should be double run, what you got is slow collected low wines. You really should be stripping these washes and you can do that fast without much regard to the abv%. These are low wines and when you have enough of them you can do a slower spirit run which with your still will result in hearts at around 65% abv. You will need to get a handle on cuts and fractions and the methods for collecting to achieve that.
I only know of one widely available yeast bred to work at 20% abv and higher (24 to 25%) and even the suppliers will say its not suitable for distilling. Most yeasts that work well with sugar molasses etc are best not pushed beyond 10 to 12% abv, after that it will stress.
Yeast eats sugar and pisses hooch, stress it and it will take a big ole steaming dump in ya wash

Nobody could have summed it up any better than that .