First pot/thumper build.. will she cook?

[Gingerninjarick]

What do you guys think? Thumper has a 2" ss pipe almost to the bottom with a few holes in it close to the bottom. Column is about to changed to a piece of 2" copper that reduces to 1/2". I'd do the 90 and 45 in 2" for strength but I'd have to order them. Biggest size locally is 1x1/4". Just gonna have to brace the liebig. Everything is modular so when I'm not doing a brandy I can put the column on the boiler, attach a reflux, and top it with the liebig.

[C2H5O5]

Looks nice but that column (riser) looks a little narrow, I'm no expert so I'll let the more knowledgeable folks chime in.

[Gingerninjarick]

Definitely too narrow to support the weight of the condensor. Luckily, I scored a piece of 2" this morning so it's about to be corrected. I didn't solder the 1/2" riser yet. Wanted to run it by the forum first to see if it would work if it was all I had.

[Kareltje]

Of course she will cook, but I agree about the small riser.
And when boiler and thumper have the same size, you should be careful not to empty the boiler. Or overflow the thumper.

[Gingerninjarick]

I'll keep an eye on that. I'm working on silver soldering my ferrules to the 2" copper right now and I couldn't solder this sh*t to save my life! I'm using a map torch and CAN NOT get the solder to melt.. the stainless is glowing red and the solder will NOT melt.. I have to touch the solder with the flame before it'll even soften.. it's driving me to drinking..

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I'll keep an eye on that. I'm working on silver soldering my ferrules to the 2" copper right now and I couldn't solder this sh*t to save my life! I'm using a map torch and CAN NOT get the solder to melt.. the stainless is glowing red and the solder will NOT melt.. I have to touch the solder with the flame before it'll even soften.. it's driving me to drinking..

What solder/flux combination are you using? You shouldn't need or want to get it that hot. I use a small propane torch and Stay-Brite 8 solder (94% Sn 6% Ag) and Stay-Clean flux. Lower temperature makes for a better solder joint. You can see where I did a 4" ferrule for JBC in this post. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67834&p=7490303#p7490303

Remember to let the work melt the solder and use lots of flux. If you're burning the flux, it's too hot, but you can recover by adding more flux.

[Gingerninjarick]

Safety silv 45 and the white flux that came with it was the first I tried, then a 56 flux stick I believe. 3/32.
It's all they had locally.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Safety silv 45 and the white flux that came with it was the first I tried, then a 56 flux stick I believe. 3/32.
It's all they had locally.

That's not a solder, that's a brazing system. The SS45 and the white flux will work, and it needs to be hot, but I'm guessing that you burned off the flux before you added the brazing rod. I'll also guess that if you watched the brazing wire, you would have seen it melting and pooling into a ball at the end. This is an indication that the flux is not active and that the work piece is oxidized. If you must try to braze, next time heat the work piece slowly, watch the flux to be sure it doesn't burn and add the wire wire when it just begins to melt.

I can also assume that you haven't soldered copper plumbing.

BTW, the Harris Stay-Brite 8 and Stay-Clean flux is easier to work with for any combination of SS and Cu.

[Gingerninjarick]

Yes, flux would turn black before the solder would start to melt. Tried heating it slow and even from the inside while holding the ss45 to the outside and about the time it softened up it beads up..also, I wasnt over generous with the flux, enough to coat both surfaces but not just piled on. Working outside in the wind too. Probably doesn't help. I've copper soldered about as much as I have silver soldered but I've had far better luck with copper. I'll see if I can find some stay Brite 8 tomorrow.
Is the flux boiling an indication of the temp it takes to melt the solder?

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Yes, flux would turn black before the solder would start to melt. Tried heating it slow and even from the inside while holding the ss45 to the outside and about the time it softened up it beads up..also, I wasnt over generous with the flux, enough to coat both surfaces but not just piled on. Working outside in the wind too. Probably doesn't help. I've copper soldered about as much as I have silver soldered but I've had far better luck with copper. I'll see if I can find some stay Brite 8 tomorrow.
Is the flux boiling an indication of the temp it takes to melt the solder?

No, the flux boiling just shows that you have heat on the work piece. If the Stay-Silv turns black, you have too much heat, and have damaged the flux.

Definitely try the Stay-Brite 8, but be sure that you get the Stay-Clean flux as well. The Stay-Silv flux is not appropriate for Stay-Brite 8. If you are careful, you will find that the same procedure that you use for soldering copper plumbing fixtures works for soldering with Stay-Brite 8. It is pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Just remember to let the work melt the solder and use plenty of flux. Be careful, it doesn't take too much heat. I can solder with a heat gun, so if you are using a torch, keep the flame low and slowly heat the work piece.

I forgot to mention, be sure that the work pieces are extremely clean. I clean them with acetone as a last step to remove all oils. Oil (even finger oil) can contaminate the joint and has the possibility to leave small voids which will result in a leak, even if you can't see them after soldering.

[Gingerninjarick]

Thank you hillbilly!! I'll find some 8 today and hopefully have some more pics of the whole thing finished.

[Gingerninjarick]

OUCH!!! $90... this was the closest thing they had to 8..

Trucks filthy, I know..

[RedwoodHillBilly]

That's a brazing alloy & flux, not a silver solder.

[Gingerninjarick]

F*** ME RUNNING!!! I told the guy exactly what I was doing and what I needed and he said "here.. this will work just the same"...
It will still work right? Just different technique?

[Gingerninjarick]

Well... when life hands ya lemons.. use em to clean your copper, I guess.. I just rolled with it and this is how it turned out..

It's not pretty but it sealed and it holds itself up. Still gonna add a brace. Still have to address the ptfe gasket being too thick at the spout of the kegs, and since I added the thumper I forgot I needed one extra 2" clamp... so no runs this weekend..

Edit: I can still run it without the thumper but all I have are fruit washs.

[Kareltje]

Apart from using the thumper as a very large gin box (for example if you want to make a Geist with fruit), why do you put a large riser or column on a thumper?

And then again: what is wrong with running fruit washes in a pot still?

[Gingerninjarick]

Gin is beyond my experience at moment.. never even drink the stuff.. I'd have to read up on it. The height of the column was more or less for when I convert it to reflux for neutrals (?) I believe, and to keep the 5 ft liebig off the floor. Haha..
From what I'm reading here, the thumper will increase flavor, where as just the pot still will work but less flavor. Nothing wrong I suppose, just not what it could be for the wash..

This is all just what I've gathered so far, so if I'm wrong or if there's something I should change or do differently please feel free to lay it on me!!

[sltm1]

Looking at your last pic on soldering, it looks more like a "jam fit" then a solder. Solder should have a flowing gradual end where it meets the metal, yours looks more like a piece of wire layed on the metal. You need more practice (I think I mentioned this before), to be able to create a solder seam that will hold up to use. Slow down, take your time and learn how to feather the flame to create a gradual heating of both pieces equally, rather than overheating with direct flame. definitely in the pic you burned the flux, which means, separate the pieces, remove the old solder and flux, re clean the metal and try it again...the only easy way to solder is to do it correctly. Once you get it, you've got it !!

[Gingerninjarick]

Looking at your last pic on soldering, it looks more like a "jam fit" then a solder. Solder should have a flowing gradual end where it meets the metal, yours looks more like a piece of wire layed on the metal. You need more practice (I think I mentioned this before), to be able to create a solder seam that will hold up to use. Slow down, take your time and learn how to feather the flame to create a gradual heating of both pieces equally, rather than overheating with direct flame. definitely in the pic you burned the flux, which means, separate the pieces, remove the old solder and flux, re clean the metal and try it again...the only easy way to solder is to do it correctly. Once you get it, you've got it !!

This was with the saftey silv 15 brazing rods. Are the brazen rods supposed to suck up into the joints like solder?

[sltm1]

No, brazing is brazing and soldering is soldering.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Not sure you had the heat you needed to braze properly.
I guess if it feels strong and doesn't leak it's done.

[Gingerninjarick]

Using a map torch. I sanded both pieces inside and out. Went crazy with the flux. I didn't get the copper or stainless glowing but hot enough to kinda change color. Once I got the rod to start melting and sticking to the joint I'd frather the flame across the stick to soften it and lay it like a ribbon where the 2 pieces meet. Then I'd heat the area until the "ribbon" melted and started to spread. Some places looked better than others. It's strong. I clamped it to the keg and gave it a solid wiggle test.. I intend to practice more with the solder and the brazing rods..

[MichiganCornhusker]

I'm not a metal working pro by any stretch, but I've only done brazing with an oxy acetatyle torch.
Heating the brazing rod directly to lay it down is generally a no no.

But, hey, you want to be a stiller, not a brazer, if it worked it worked.

In the future, copper to copper soldering is way easier. It's worth sourcing all parts in copper.
Otherwise, I got a small kit of Harris Sta Brite with flux on Amazon for about $15. It worked great for me doing what you just did. I also used a 2" muffler clamp to tighten the copper pipe around the SS ferrule before soldering.

Good luck with the adventure.

[Gingerninjarick]

I will definitely be ordering the stay Brite 8 for future builds. IF... i do anymore stainless.. I'm a mechanic/electrician but I do a little of everything.. but not much plumbing except for the occasional remodel. I love learning new trades and if it cost me a little money I consider it money well spent. I started learning to weld about a year or two ago.. just started sticking metal together until I got ok at it..
The 2" copper was type L and was a little too small I.D. for the ss ferrules. Then I had a stroke of genius... placed the end on the 2" ball receiver on my truck and used a wood block and a hammer to tap it until it expanded enough for the ferrule to be tapped in snug..

[Gingerninjarick]

Trying out some configurations. I can do away with the elbow, just wanted to see if it would all hold up.. everything seems solid and sealed. I have a 5-6 gallon wash I could sacrifice or should I run water/vinegar just to see how it all works and clean it?

Pay no attention to the mess.. carport construction has commenced.

[Yummyrum]

It's a smart idea to stick a prop or stand near the collection end of a long liebig as when its full of water it will put a huge stress on the upper joints

[Gingerninjarick]

Will do! Thanks yummyrum.