Thumper out of pressure cooker

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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cosminman
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Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

Hello. I got this 14 liter (arround 3.8 gallons I think) and want to build a thumper out of it for my 50 liter pot (it is roughly 1/3 the size of the boiler). It is rated to maximum 1.10 bars, which I think means that above this pressure, steam is going to be released through the safety valve.
I was wondering what is the approximate pressure you get in a thumper? Considering it has a outlet for the pressure (through the condenser), will I have to block the overpressure security valve? Or it should be ok for the purpose as is?ImageImage
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thecroweater
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by thecroweater »

Its not usual to see a valve on a thumper, you could probably remove it and replace it with one of you feed lines.
That said I personally don't run a thumper so best wait for one of the trump guys to chime in.
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cosminman
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

I am going to fit my in-pipe through a 1 ' pickled brass fittings, so I won't be using the small holes where the valves are. I just wonder if I will have to block them, in order to get the steam out through the condenser and not through the lid valves.
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by WIski »

Cos, that's almost 16 psi. way, way more than you should ever have. You could remove the OP valve and use the penetration for your vapor lines. Also make sure the stock seal on the lid is of approved material.
cosminman
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

Thanks. I will leave them there in this case. I will use a single pipe in, with another pipe inside (so not two pipes), therefore I will need a much larger hole in the lid.

Meanwhile, I was thinking to start a UJSSM... Can I use the first wash for sacrificial run, and add some of the backset to the next mash, to sour it?
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Danespirit
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by Danespirit »

cosminman wrote:Hello. I got this 14 liter (arround 3.8 gallons I think) and want to build a thumper out of it for my 50 liter pot (it is roughly 1/3 the size of the boiler). It is rated to maximum 1.10 bars, which I think means that above this pressure, steam is going to be released through the safety valve.
I was wondering what is the approximate pressure you get in a thumper? Considering it has a outlet for the pressure (through the condenser), will I have to block the overpressure security valve? Or it should be ok for the purpose as is?
What about that seal..???
It's probably rubber or silicone, right..?
Before you find a way to fix that issue, forget about that thing.
There should be only a slight overpressure going from the still to the thumper...not even near the rating of that cooker.
What kind of pipe and dimensions are you planning..?
1/3 of the boiler capacity, should be sufficient.
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

You mean the seal of the pressure cooker? It is food grade silicone. The pressure cooker is new, so there is no food smell in it. If that seal is an issue, I could toss it and use PTFE instead.

As far as the pipes are concerned, I have a 42 mm riser that narrows to 28 mm and gets to the thumper. From the thumper, it goes in the 15mm liebig condenser.
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by LWTCS »

Prolly not even 3 psi in a kettle. Parasitic or otherwise.
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thecroweater
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by thecroweater »

cosminman wrote:I am going to fit my in-pipe through a 1 ' pickled brass fittings, so I won't be using the small holes where the valves are. I just wonder if I will have to block them, in order to get the steam out through the condenser and not through the lid valves.
I didn't mean use the same holes without enlarging them, jeez bud give me a little credit. Thing is I bet those valves are sealed in with some sort of god knows synthetics. You can wrap ya main seal in thread seal tape but ya can't do shit about the valves
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

Sorry, did not want to offend you. English is not my mother tongue and I took it too literally :)

What puzzles me is why are those seals good for cooking food but not good for distilling? They get inside the human body one way or another, isn't it?
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Still Life
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by Still Life »

cosminman wrote:What puzzles me is why are those seals good for cooking food but not good for distilling? They get inside the human body one way or another, isn't it?
Hot alcohol vapor is more volatile than a pot of stew, and can break down rubber, silicone, etc., leeching nasty chemicals.

(And your English is pretty good! Sometimes misunderstandings occur, and we all have to consider that.)
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NZChris
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by NZChris »

High proof alcohol and it's associated alcohols, esters etc. are not foods, they are solvents and you are subjecting them to high temperatures, which means that most plastics are not resistant to them. I had my gasket supplier research what materials he had that would be resistant to the solvents expected in distillation and he only found one, PTFE, so I designed my stills to use PTFE for all seals. Thirty years later, I am not aware of any new synthetics that are equal to, or better than, PTFE.

Do your own research using chemical resistance data from manufacturers, rather than relying on opinions from random forum members and youtubers.
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Danespirit
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by Danespirit »

cosminman wrote:You mean the seal of the pressure cooker? It is food grade silicone. The pressure cooker is new, so there is no food smell in it. If that seal is an issue, I could toss it and use PTFE instead.

As far as the pipes are concerned, I have a 42 mm riser that narrows to 28 mm and gets to the thumper. From the thumper, it goes in the 15mm liebig condenser.
Yup..that's exactly what made my eyeballs go red.
We on HD take safety seriously, please have a look at a few links. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=89
If you haven't already, please have a look at Cranky's spoonfeed thread ...link is in my signature.
That will give you a good starting point and steer you clear of the worst pitfalls.
I use flour paste as a seal...that might be difficult on the kind of pressure cooker you have at hand, though.
Forget about the safety valve, too. Get rid of it and block the hole..a bolt, nut and some washers could do the job. Seal the threads with PTFE tape.
Your choice of piping and the dimensions, look good.As long as you don't make the horizontal pipe from the riser to the thumper unnecessary long, you're good to go.
You know YouTube and such things are amusing to watch but in most cases, people uploading these videos don't know a flying fart about distilling..let alone to do it safely.
I realize you had an idea with that cooker and if it weren't for that seal it would be ok.
Maybe the best solution would be to use it for it's intended purpose and get a stockpot with an all-metal lid instead...just thinking.
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thecroweater
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by thecroweater »

The seal could be wrapped in PTFE tape providing its sealed up it will be fine.
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by Tapeman »

cosminman wrote:You mean the seal of the pressure cooker? It is food grade silicone. The pressure cooker is new, so there is no food smell in it. If that seal is an issue, I could toss it and use PTFE instead.

As far as the pipes are concerned, I have a 42 mm riser that narrows to 28 mm and gets to the thumper. From the thumper, it goes in the 15mm liebig condenser.
Don't use the silicone gasket unless you overwrap it with at least two layers of Teflon thread tape. I did on mine and it works great. Don't use a thumper meself, so can't are that question. Probably should, are they appropriate for pot stills or more for reflux rigs?
cosminman
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

They are perfect for pot stills, you get something like 1.5 distillations in one run. Or at least this is what I read :)
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by Shine0n »

You would be correct about 1.5, I've used a thumper my whole distilling career and couldn't see myself ever not having one as they serve more than the 1.5 run purpose, having said that... simply replace or wrap the gasket with ptfe, make sure to do plenty of reading on thumpers and their uses.
Don't believe the YouTube vids and Internet folk who claim this and that as it could land you in a hospital or worse.
The folks here are the ones who know more and pass out knowledge like candy but we also expect you to do your part as well, that's not bashing you by any means it's just some friendly advice to help you along with this wonderful journey you're about to go into.

Safety is our first priority and mine to pass along and we'll help anyway we can.

Get to building and posting about your build and if we see anything alarming we'll let you know but reading is going to be your best friend here.

Good luck and hope to see you making some good likker here soon :thumbup:
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cosminman
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

Thank you, can't wait to do my first run :)
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

I did manage to take out the silicone seal and wrap it 2 times in PTFE. Hope it will be ok now. At the first run, I will taste the product for strange tastes.
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by jb-texshine »

That's the bad thing about chemicals leaching in to stuff,for the most part you see,smell and taste nothing while the damage is being done. That's the reason why we are so careful.

That aside.
That is an awesome looking pressure cooker and I think I would keep it as one.
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cosminman
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

Just a quick update, in case someone else wants to use this kind of pressure cooker.
I took out the silicone gasket, and wrapped the pot lid lip with ptfe tape (the one used in gas plumbing applications, which is a little thicker). It works like a charm, seals very well and no danger from silicone gasket.
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Hoosier Shine9
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by Hoosier Shine9 »

cosminman wrote:Thanks. I will leave them there in this case. I will use a single pipe in, with another pipe inside (so not two pipes), therefore I will need a much larger hole in the lid.

Meanwhile, I was thinking to start a UJSSM... Can I use the first wash for sacrificial run, and add some of the backset to the next mash, to sour it?
I personally would NOT use the backset into the next ferment.
My thought is ....At least part of the GUNK you are cleaning out of the boiler would be in the backset.

For your sacrificial why not use something like a Birdwatchers or the like.
I would save the UJSSM as my first run.
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by cosminman »

Well, I did it with a Birdwatchers wash. The post is 1 yr old :). Thanks for the tip tough.
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by The Baker »

cosminman wrote:
Thanks. I will leave them there in this case. I will use a single pipe in, with another pipe inside (so not two pipes), therefore I will need a much larger hole in the lid.

A little off topic.
I don't think this is quite relevant to you because it is going to be much easier for you to go the way you said. And if you do it using a ferrule it would be simple to use the little 'pressure cooker' as say a gin still.

I can see the possibility of getting some pomace (skins and stuff from the winery after they crush the grapes) and making some grappa.
So I have an eye out for a stainless (or copper) drum, 44 Imperial gallon (55 gal. US) or smaller, with a full size opening at the top and a flat lid.
I would probably fit near the bottom, the kind of ferrule used for an element (so I have the option of doing just that and using it as a boiler for a pot or flute or whatever.)
Then I can put the pomace in the drum, and in the 'element ferrule' I can insert the tube-with-the-holes-in-it that is the inlet for the thumper.
And the normal outlet, another ferrule for flexibility and simplicity would be in the lid.
Use the normal boiler with (say) water in it (liquid anyway); and distil the pomace with no direct heat; no scorching on elements or in the bottom of the still. It is easy to shovel the pomace in.
And to empty the still after. Just tip it upside down...

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Hoosier Shine9
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Re: Thumper out of pressure cooker

Post by Hoosier Shine9 »

cosminman wrote:Well, I did it with a Birdwatchers wash. The post is 1 yr old :). Thanks for the tip tough.
sorry for the inconvenience, I didn't notice it was a year old.
I will be more mindful in the future.
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