My first 15lt pot

[Yodaspike]

Hi guys

New to to this, been reading for weeks and made a few runs, last run i did a 7-8lt batch. Have a normal pot about 15lts, 22mm copper pipe with 9mm coming through pipe for cooling just as vape enters pipe, then packing then 3 45 degree bends, which then get reduced to 9mm spiral, thermostat at end of feed pipe.

So what i am wondering is temps of vape, read everything looked at a bunc of vids all say about the same, yet when i cook, nothing will come out till i hit 90 degrees celcius, which is where the temp will stay for hours, till the mojority is collected, then the temp will suddenly rise, soo..any thoughts on this?

Second, cant find a propper way to determine abv, except using a hydrometer to test whiskey, take reading and then use it as baseline, tried the burn in spoon, some will burn leaving 10% or less flued behind and mid collection will burn everything leaving nothing behind. With this in mind we theorise that should you burn 10ml and there is 1ml left after burn, it should be about 90% abv? And if all burns should be 97%?

Thanks a buch so far, forum has been very helpfull thus far..

[Saltbush Bill]

New to to this, been reading for weeks and made a few runs, last run i did a 7-8lt batch. Have a normal pot about 15lts, 22mm copper pipe with 9mm coming through pipe for cooling just as vape enters pipe, then packing then 3 45 degree bends, which then get reduced to 9mm spiral, thermostat at end of feed pipe.

Im pretty sure I can see a few problems here.
Not sure where you found the plan for the still, but the tiny bit of reflux you would be getting from the pipes at the bottom of the riser wont be doing much at all.
Is that a rubber bicycle tube I see sealing the lid to the boiler ? If so that's not a safe thing to do at all, It needs to be replaced.
Ive never run a coil condenser like that so Im only guessing, but I suspect the cooling container for the coil is far to small. you would be better using the pump you have for reflux to recycle water to the coil condencer.
Another thing to think about , how are you going to turn that gas off if something goes horribly wrong, Seems to me the tap must be under the still boiler , on top of the gas bottle. Believe me if that still catches fire or worse your going to wish you had easy access to the tap before it burns you bike and garage to the ground.

So what i am wondering is temps of vape, read everything looked at a bunc of vids all say about the same, yet when i cook, nothing will come out till i hit 90 degrees celcius, which is where the temp will stay for hours, till the mojority is collected, then the temp will suddenly rise, soo..any thoughts on this?

Lesson one.......most of the vids on youtube are rubbish made by those who have no idea.
The best thing you can do is remover the thermometer that you are watching and throw it over your shoulder. you dont operate a pot still by temp.
You watch the flow from the spout to judge how much heat to apply into the boiler. You have no control over the temperature of the wash in the boiler.
Takes a while for newbies to get a grip on that concept. The temp rises at the end of the run because by then there is little alcohol in the boiler ...whats left boils at a higher temp. Infact the temp of the boiler and the vapor leaving it will be rising through the entire run.

tried the burn in spoon,

The burn in spoon test is garbage , it will tell you nothing of use.
You use an Alcometer to tell abv.
You really do need to spend some time reading on the forum and less time looking at Youtube if you want your methods to improve.
Sorry about the negative reply , but lots wrong with how you are trying to do things.

[Yodaspike]

Thanks for the feedback
This was like a test to see if bigger batch will make a difference in product delivered, which it did, the black around the pot is ensulation tape, as some steam comes out when things get hot, and it works quite good.
I run water through the 2 small pipes at the bottom, as this makes that the product comes out nice nice and clear, other wise it very milky in color.
Then the coil water doesnt acrually get hot a all with this setup, which i think is mostly due to the wet cloth i have wraped arround the downpipe just before it.

None the less i am busy planning my next build which would probably be a 500mm 50mm copper pipe(perhaps bigger, depends on price difference) then packing the collum most of the way, have a small coil at the top, and a condenser after the 2 bends(probably 2 90 degrees) as i will after them be reducing probably 3 times from 50mm to 15, i feel from all the plans and reading up, this would/should give me the best all round product and production speed.

Very ugly pic below, sorry fat vingers, small screen
Other pic bit different but same setup

[Yodaspike]

QuickMemo+_200524_181753.pdf

(389.71 KiB) Downloaded 129 times

[Corsaire]

That still head in the pdf is a t500 I think? It's a cm design, and probably not the most efficient. You'll need a valve to regulate coolant flow.

Take a look at ccvm builds. They're very simple. Jesse from Still it on youtube built one, with a wound condenser. IItclosely resembles your fat fingered drawing

I don't know what your next boiler will be but ditch the insulation tape. Flour paste is a lot safer. As it is now hot alcohol steam comes on contact with that tape.

You say you have milky colored distillate. How does it smell and taste? To me it sounds like you're dragging tails through big time.

If you're going to buy copper for a bigger column anyway, buy some extra so you can build a liebig. That'll be more useful than the wet rags and soup can on a long run.

[Yodaspike]

Well, did a test, if i dont cool the vape off a bit some where in the main pipe, the product comes out milky, but cooling it of a bit in the main line makes it come out nice and clean, also i have to say that the first pic on here, that still works way better than expected, my only issue with that was the speed, took super long to still 10lt, thus i am now in the prosess of building a 54mm still with copper mesh packing of 20cm with cooling coil at the very top, and then i think i will probably use the shotgun condeser instead of the normal one to save some 54mm pipe and use it to make the main line 600, its only a 15lt pot so dont want to go too long on main pipe.

But so far i am very confident that my build is going to work wonderfully.
Will try and post pics once done.

Also can you use any flower and water to seal the lid, or not.

Thx

[Corsaire]

I use rye flour, I've never really tried other kinds.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to build.
A 54mm diameter riser, 20cm tall packed with copper scrubbers. A coil condenser on top of that.
Then a shotgun product condenser instead of a long liebig?
How will you manage reflux rate? Also, 20cm really isn't much for a packed column...

Any pics of the milky distillate?

[Yodaspike]

Will have a valve to control water flow.
Might be more than 20cm, just working of what i read that 4" of packing is equal to one plate, and will be using 10 copper scrubs, pipe will only be about 600 high, dont want to go too much packing or too tall, as i heard that you might end up being worse off, also i only have 1m 54mm copper pipe, and it has to be enough for the main pipe and the condeser, hence my desission to make the shotgun.

My current setup is pretty much the same, but only 22mm pipe and only 400 high, and it works great, just too slow to my liking. I am really just building the same concept but a better build

[Yodaspike]

No pic on hand, but it pretty much looks like you put a spoon full of milk in a glass of water, but again, not a issue any more

[Yodaspike]

So heres my new still, 54mm pipe with coil on top and shotgun condenser, yet first drops still only comin out at 80 degrees C, and slow, any comments.
Been 40min and only 20ml.

[Saltbush Bill]

The thread title is " my first 15 it pot".
If its a pot still why does it appear to have a condencer at the top.?
Secondly stop looking at the thermometer , you can't run a pot still by temp.

[Yodaspike]

Well its my first, so still learning, and the therm... Is there cause all the builds i have seen has one, so i am kinda just following everyone ells

[Saltbush Bill]

It shouldn't be to hard to modify, get rid of the top condenser and the thermometer and it should work just fine.
If you had put your hose connection points under the product condenser they wouldn't want to kink as much.

[Corsaire]

Looks like you've built a ccvm with fixed condenser. Does the coil extend into the t?
If not you're running 1:1 reflux I'd imagine, with no way to change that. Do you have any packing in it?

As sbb suggested, if you can swap out the t for an elbow you have a pot still. You can cap the t as well.

If you make that top coil mobile you have a ccvm. There's plenty of people here that use those with good results. If I remember correctly, Kimbodious has some good posts on how to run them.

How much power are you throwing at your boiler?

Edit:
Also, is the top of that still sealed? I can't tell by the pictures. If it's open you should check that no vapor escapes from there. Your reflux coil needs to knock down everything that comes near it. In a previous post you mentioned a valve for throttling cooling water.

[Yodaspike]

So no steam coming out, if do see any i seal it with the dow.
The top has a coil that sits just below the T, its a 6mm coil of about 3m.
It is sealed of on top only has the opening at the end of the condeser, and i am pumping water seperately through coil and condenser.
Conderser is a 3 22mm shotgun condenser, 200mm long.
With previuose builds i found that without the coil running the booz is murky.
Then i have copper mesh packed from bottom till where the coil sits.
I have made a sugar and malt mash today, which i will ferment for a few days and do another run, see what i get, but perhaps i will run the mash i already made and stilled again, as it was about 8lt, and only got out 400ml, but will run without the coil this time, see what comes out.
And power i dont know as i am running on high pressure gas burner, boils 20lt in about 15min

Thanks for the feedback, really helps.
I also have been looking at the pics posted of stills to get some ideas.

[Saltbush Bill]

So no steam coming out, if do see any i seal it with the dow.

You will only see steam if the weather is cold I would think, just because you cant see steam doesn't mean your not loosing ethanol and other vapours imo

The top has a coil that sits just below the T, its a 6mm coil of about 3m.

.
If you turn the water off to that condenser it will work more like a pot still.

With previuose builds i found that without the coil running the booz is murky.

The condenser would have nothing to do with whether the booze leaves the still murky or not.
Murky out put is usually from pushing the still to hard , " puking" and that usually happens on a stripping run or a one and done " single" spirit run.
If you were running copper mesh in the riser part of the still in previous times ," pre top condenser" that may have encouraged puke to climb higher faster. The only other reason I can think of for Murky / cloudy Booze is running way to fast for way to long or going way into tails.

[Corsaire]

Do you run that burner flat out?

A mirror is imo the best way to check for leaks. It fogs up. You don't always see steam.

Interested in your next run. Do you have a hydrometer?
Also, has anyone with a ccvm ever ran start to finish with the rc completely raised?

[Yodaspike]

I run the burner generously at first, when temp picks up, i bring down till sruff starts coming out.
Ran it without the cooling coil, didnt work, was running too hot, only water came out.

Only have the hydro meters that you buy to test battery water.

Also, if my condenser inside pipe is bigger than my feed pipe, would that make the still produce slower?

[Saltbush Bill]

Ran it without the cooling coil, didnt work, was running too hot, only water came out.

That is not possible in my opinion, unless there is only water in the boiler.

[Yodaspike]

So i guess maybe my main issue is that i have 3 22mm pipes in my shotgun instead of 15mm's.
So guess i will strip and change before doing my next run, perhaps run some vinniger through it to clean it as well.

[still_stirrin]

What I see looking at your setup, is a still that has a very narrow operating range.

1) With the short shotgun product condenser, if your vapor rate is too high, it’ll push vapor out of the product outlet. Three 22mm pipes in a 54mm shell will pass a lot of vapor and without adequate contact to the vapor tube walls, it won’t be as effective at condensing (under high flow operation).

A longer shotgun would help by providing more surface area for the vapors to condense on. Also, smaller vapor tubes, 13 mm for example, would help but you’ll need more of them in the 54mm shell. And the vapor tube length should be longer than 200mm, say 350-400mm to increase the “dwell time” the vapor makes with the condenser’s vapor tubes.

2) With your reflux coil stuck down the column and cooling, it is the only way your product condenser can manage the vapor produced by your high pressure burner. And with such a short riser, when running, I’m sure you’re operating is a flooding condition, such that your product comes out cloudy. The burner simply overdrives the still, either in reflux operation or product condensation.

The 54mm copper will pass a lot of vapor and you need to balance the system better, first by increasing the heat capacity of your product condenser (as suggested above). But you also need the ability to raise the reflux condenser higher, above the branch line on the Tee. It will reduce reflux and help manage the flooding condition in the column. But, you’ll need more knock down power in the product condenser because you’ll have more product (vapor) flowing to the outlet.

Spike, what you’ve got is very rudimentary, and can be improved. Some attention to the design/build will help. And better adjustment of the heat input (propane burner) will help too. Also, I like to have some insulation on the boiler and column to help stabilize the system and eliminate the influence of ambient conditions, such as air temperature or wind which will make production spike and dip at random times.
ss

[Saltbush Bill]

Or do the KISS thing , get rid of the top condenser, get rid of the thermometer and use it as a pot still. While your doing that and learning how to run a pot , you can be researching and building a reflux still that actually works as it should.

[Yodaspike]

Ok, so cleaned my system etc
Finally found a way to test abv and, have to say very happy, simple and perhaps odd system, but getting 97%abv , so might enlarge condenser to speed up the process but even so, will be doing a 20lt run around the weekend to see whats the results, but i am happy to say that this setup work great for me.
Simple ans easy, just need to get the fermentation down.

Thanks for all the imput

[Yodaspike]

O will post details and result after weekend.

[still_stirrin]

... but getting 97%abv ...

Double check that....I bet it’s hot! And hot alcohol has a lower density giving you a “higher than real” %ABV measurement. A few degrees hot will make a huge difference in the real measurement.
ss

[Yodaspike]

Its winter here at the mo, so temps rarely go over 20C, so i try and test same time of day in same room etc
Found some 90% pharmacy alcohol and used it as a base, tested it on its own and meter dropped all the way down, did same with my stuff and tested same.
Then diluted the 90% to 50% tested and made note of reading, did same ratio of dilution with mine and tested slightly higher, thus pointing me to believe that mine should be in the 95% or higher, also i did the same practice to dilute spirits to 50% and tested and got same reading, so i pretty mush assume that doing 3 tests with 3 different sources of alcohol and getting the same results should mean the results are aquirate.

Then there is the all full proof test
Mixed 1 shot of my booz with my ice and mix as per usual when i drink brandy, and was very strong, then took the last run i did diluted it by 50%(300ml booz and 300ml water) and well, drank it all today, still a bit strong on a double shot with coke, took 4 glasses to get pretty tipsy, after about 10, had to grab a bite to eat and take a nap, 5hours later i am up and feel good enough do drink another bottle(love this home brew stuff, almost no nasty after effects).
But even with all this i still hope i can one day find a abv tester, apparently not even 1 in the coutry, cant find online shops that have, that will ship to SA, so very angry.

Then what i am running:
20-25lt pot
54mm cooper class0 pipe roughly 700mm high
Packing is copper mesh from bottom to top
Coiling coil just below T piece made of 6mm soft copper
A 200mm 54mm shotgun condenser with 3 15mm cores(which in future will be expanded to a 4 15mm core and 400 long)
Water runs in at bottom of condenser, out the top, then in top coil and then out to dam(have 50 000lt dam)
Ran the coil and condenser separately before but turned out to be too much of a hasle.
Then a double ring high pressure burner running on LP gas, this heats up the mix in about 15min, as soon as the temp starts to climb i turn dowb the heat till it picks up slowly by it self, which settles at 80c(think my therm is 10C out so probably 70C) there it still stay for a while and then climb to 80/90C odd there it will stay pretty much for remainder of run.

Will see early next week what numbers i get with latest mash, is ferminting like crazy, sounds like its boiling.

[Yodaspike]

One thing i would like to know, should i consider a thumper or these glass jars ie, still runs in 1st glass then out into next glass bottle then condenser.
Not sure if it is worth the change.
We are busy building a small one for second run on booz though

[Yodaspike]

Uh, mmm
So i have now for the second time ran a still at 0C and lower and it seems that every time its so cold, i can crank the heat and the still preduces very very slow.
Switch it of, wait till warmer weather and then put it back on and all is well again...is this normal?

[Corsaire]

So your high powered burner can't keep up?

Just guessing here. Your fixed condenser might be creating too cold a zone for vapors to pass into the t.
You mentioned that the condenser ends just below the t.
Feel the riser. Does it feel cold at the t?

[Yodaspike]

Well got the coiling coil just under the T, but yes, it did feel cold, allthough the temp which is above that was reading just fine, eventually i turned the coil off and ran it without packing and just the condenser, was better but only mamaged 70%abv, which is ok, but messes around with my cuts.
Will try again this week will be 20C warmer than that run, and more than doubled the length of the condenser so will ma wait and see.
Thus far it seems like my setup like warmer weather, had a smaller more basic one before and did the same thing when it gets very cold