New member . New still

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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jawwal
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Re: New member . New still

Post by jawwal »

Hello johnh89 I love your pace of art , and I wanna build one for myself unfortunately the pictures does not reflect the actual length measurements and tubes sizes nor the fitting names and sizes , would you please provide me with the full shopping list from top to end including the connectors to the pot .

I was so thrilled and bought the fallowing
1- Stainless still pot similar to yours
2- 2000 W Electric burner
But I couldn't waist my money on tubes and the rest, since there were many sizes, :( HELP. :roll:
Witting for your kind respond thank you in advance.
Ayay
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Ayay »

John, your concentric column is simple and compact, and superbly built. Thanks and I'll be following this thread with interest.

The only vent to the outside that I see is the takeoff outlet, does any vapor pressure cause the output to blow or sputter? I guess it depends on the performance of the condenser. Further back someone mentioned putting a valve on the outlet - wouldn't that create the ability to completely seal the system?
cornflakes...stripped and refluxed
trthskr4
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Re: New member . New still

Post by trthskr4 »

Absolutely beautiful stills, also would like to give a hand for the air cannon.
15 gallon pot still, 2"x18" column with liebeg condensor on propane.
Modified Charles 803 w/ 50gal boiler, never ran so far.
johnh89
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Re: New member . New still

Post by johnh89 »

The stills dimensions are not super critical but I will give you a guess . The 3 tube sizes are readily available in the UK and are 28mm , 22mm and 15mm copper plumbing tube . You will need the following
1 x 28mm x 300mm long copper tube
1 x 22mm x 300mm long copper tube
1 x 15mm x 200mm long copper tube
1 x 22mm blank cap
1 x 28mm blank cap
1 x 15mm brass tank connector ( for lid of boiler ) (search on the forum for treatment of brass fittings)
1 x 28mm to 22mm pipe reducer
1 x 22mm to 15mm pipe reducer (both of these will need the pipe stop filed out from the inside so the smaller tube will slide through)
3 small stubs of 6mm copper tube for water in/out and product out .

none of the sizes are critical and any 3 tubes that can be made concentric will do as long as you can get the reducers . If you have read the parent site in detail you should be able to work out how it all goes together and works . It is quite a fiddly design to make for your first still and quite awkward to solder together so assemble it dry first and use a bit of commonsense .Good luck and if you do build a still of any sort post it up here for all to see .

In reply to the other question , I have had no problem with the still sputtering even when run at full power . A previous poster mentioned the idea of fitting an external reflux valve to the outlet to allow the still to partially flood and reflux some of the product . As you mention this would in effect allow you to seal the system so if you wanted to do it I would suggest that you would have to drill a bypass hole in the valve somewhere . To be honest there are a lot of better designs than this for reflux stills so I would not bother myself . It was designed as a pot still that is small and compact and works pretty well within the constraints of the design . I think the reason that it does not sputter is that the condenser knocks down the vapour pretty quickly and the only reason the product comes out warm is the proximity of the outlet to the vapour inlet .
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Upscaled and pimped ;-)

Post by Master-Peter »

First I want to say thanks to JohnH89 for sharing his design.

As I like the simplicity of the design I built a upscaled version for stripping (so far). It is 22mm in 28mm in 34mm. The total height is 110cm with 80cm outer Liebig-shell. To cool down the product some more I added a real small Liebig on the product outlet (right side). The inner 22mm vapor tube currently goes up about 40cm in the Liebig. I made it that big to achieve the performance of throwing down the 9kw my gas burner can supply (currently untested because of insulation issues on the keg boiler).

I stripped 4 boilerloads of sugar wash within 1 day. Starts at 70% plus and stopped at 20% plus (plus because of cool product). I came up to about 40ltrs of stripped wash :shock:

1.) It works like a charm :D
2.) There is a little puffing and sometimes a little bit vapor escaping on the outlet arm. The product is quite cold. I expect this comes from overpressure ( :?: ) (any ideas?)
4.) Needs only little amount of cooling water, no issue anyway for me. :wink:
3.) It is simple, stable and easy to store/hide.

My idea is now to extend the vapor tube deeper into the outer liebig to force the vapor a longer way down the cool walls. I hope that stops the puffing and vapor pressure issue.

Cheers Peter
Attachments
Peters-Pot-Mark I.jpg
Peters-Pot-Mark I.jpg (54.57 KiB) Viewed 5229 times
If you think that booze is funny,
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**** Fitting beer to bottles with ****
Boiler: 50 Liter SS-Keg
Heat: Propane 9kw double ring burner
Still: LM/VM combined, 42mm, all copper, still.
rad14701
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Re: New member . New still

Post by rad14701 »

Very nice adaptation, Master-Peter... The take off liebig is a great improvement... You could probably eliminate the huffing by adding a small amount of copper packing in the liebig...
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Master-Peter »

Thanks Rad :D

the idea came from pulling the takeoff over the keg. Why not cool it ;-)
I'll try the meshfilling idea ...

Cheers
Peter
If you think that booze is funny,
burn yourself and save your money.


**** Fitting beer to bottles with ****
Boiler: 50 Liter SS-Keg
Heat: Propane 9kw double ring burner
Still: LM/VM combined, 42mm, all copper, still.
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WARNING !!! UNSAFE DESIGN !!!

Post by Master-Peter »

I have received a warning from Harry . He's right with his concerns. Even when the design has approved working like a charm so far I'll put it on my wall of shame. It's explosion prone.
For your reference here the original quote from Harry:
I hate to be the alarmist here, but....


The design has a 15mm narrow tube delivering vapor to a 28mm chamber. That means there's 6.5mm space between the wall of the tubes. A narrow space.
If it pukes you won't find it in the parrot. That narrow space will become effectively blocked. Then you immediately get an over-pressure situation in your rig.
With luck, the obstruction will be blown out forcefully through the takeoff. Without luck (Murphy factor) the puke will be forced even tighter into the tubespace & outlet. The rig becomes a rather large bomb. The bad thing about that is, you may not even notice the blockage, & a minute or two later, you'll probably be dead with a piece of steel keg or copper pipe stuck in your head and a big pile of rubble where that brick wall used to be.

I'm sorry, but it's a bad design safety-wise.

There are some things you can do, like install a large blowout plate or plug in the top of the keg. But you still have the issue of removing the gunk from the closed chamber, and you still have the problem of not being able to see or prevent a potential puke. And it will happen because while you're doing sugar runs now, at some point in the hobby you will try a mash with solids in it. We all do eventually (grains, fruits). But by then (if you're still alive) you will have forgotten that your design isn't suitable for solids. Even molasses wash is prone to puking.

It's a disaster waiting to happen.

But don't take my word for it. Ask any engineer. There's a few here, & lots of groups online where you can ask about vessels and pressurization.

Good luck.

Edit: I fogot to ask...You DO block off the holes in the pipes when you're not using it, don't you? Mudwasps, spiders & lizards like small dark places to live & build things. Those become the unseen, un-thought-about blockages also.

_________________
Slainte!
regards Harry
I fully follow his concern. Further oversizing, so the gap between the inlet tube and the outer liebig becomes bigger, might be a way. But not cost effective.
As it is this head makes rum or boom depending on Murpheys mood.

Another beautiful piece of copper scrap for my wall of shame, on the one hand. Some more steps on my learning curve on the other.

Cheers
Peter
If you think that booze is funny,
burn yourself and save your money.


**** Fitting beer to bottles with ****
Boiler: 50 Liter SS-Keg
Heat: Propane 9kw double ring burner
Still: LM/VM combined, 42mm, all copper, still.
rad14701
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Re: New member . New still

Post by rad14701 »

Master-Peter, while there are some valid concerns it should also be noted that this design isn't intended to be used for distilling on the grain in the first place... Beyond that, it would be simple enough to incorporate a safety release if deemed necessary... Harry does have a legitimate concern with relation to distilling on the grain, however, and anyone considering building this design needs to take this limitation into consideration...

I had thought of the whole pressure issue when the original design was posted yet I'm still considering a similar design for strip runs because I only put well cleared charges in my boiler...

Don't write your efforts off as a total loss just yet...
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Master-Peter »

Thanks Rad,

it's not a total loss, just another milestone at the learning curve. For sugar washes it works fine (as long as there are no solids), but it is not that sort of "egg laying wool milk pig" I had in mind.
If you think that booze is funny,
burn yourself and save your money.


**** Fitting beer to bottles with ****
Boiler: 50 Liter SS-Keg
Heat: Propane 9kw double ring burner
Still: LM/VM combined, 42mm, all copper, still.
johnh89
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Re: New member . New still

Post by johnh89 »

Sorry for the length of time from my last posting but have been busy with other things . Just had a look at the forum today and found that there is still debate going on about the concentric design . I am glad that others have been inspired to have a go and try and perfect the design . To be honest there are better and more efficient designs but the brief was for something small and discreet . There were always going to be compromises and as these are adressed the design becomes less small and less discreet . I think I have gone as far as I can within the constraints of the design brief .

Master-peter . Could you explain where the warning from Harry (?) came from so I could do my best to allay any fears or reply to the posts . As I said before the still was only ever designed for small , well cleared sugar washes .

I have another load ready for the pot and will dig out one of the other designs from the cupboard for a change and let you all know how I get on .

Cheers for now
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men " ......
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Neostiller »

Very nice...Like the press for the apples...How has the apple spirit come out?
Ethanol Al
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Ethanol Al »

I really like this design and had a thought to address the safety issue. What if one were to let middle size tube extend out the top of the larger tube and then just set a pipe cap on top of it so it could pop off in an over pressure situation? Thoughts?
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Concentric Condencer.jpg
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Re: New member . New still

Post by rad14701 »

Ethanol Al, with this design you can never have a shut off valve because that could allow pressure buildup... It makes for a very compact stripping head, that's for sure... It might even work for RLM because the take off would always be open to the atmosphere...
quantum
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Re: New member . New still

Post by quantum »

That's pretty cool. I love it.
trial&error
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Re: New member . New still

Post by trial&error »

dude thats awesome!! i might have to build one.

any thoughts of adding a valve that returns the liquid for controllable reflux?

can you make some detailed sketches/ plans of your concentric still?
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Re: New member . New still

Post by rad14701 »

trial&error wrote:dude thats awesome!! i might have to build one.

any thoughts of adding a valve that returns the liquid for controllable reflux?

can you make some detailed sketches/ plans of your concentric still?
This design could easily be converted to RLM... Simply reroute the take off port downward, create a new take off point, and then put a needle valve and reflux tube below that with the reflux tube returning the reflux into the center of the vapor tube... This design can also operate at any angle from vertical to just above horizontal for added height - and could even be mounted off a packed column... The trick is to never close off the take off port...
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Re: New member . New still

Post by johnh89 »

Sorry for not posting for a while but my life has been busy of late . Following concerns posted by masterpeter, I redesigned the still so there could be no build up of pressure if the outlet were to get blocked . I have never had the problem as it was designed only for distilling well cleared sugar washes but it was pointed out to me that these are public forums and other people may use the design to distil other stuff . I modified the design to a 2 part still which has made it easier to clean out . But did not post the replies here . My apologies . Attached are some photos of the still as it now is .
Attachments
top view
top view
bottom part
bottom part
still in 2 parts
still in 2 parts
assembled still
assembled still
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men " ......
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Master-Peter
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Master-Peter »

Hi John,

yep I think now it is quite foolproof. I am just thinking of converting mine to a RLM head. This design could give a real nice RLM head on top of a column and is a great pot head for stripping without, as RAD already pointed out.

Egg laying wool milk pig - if I don't lack on theorie ;-)

Cheers
Peter
If you think that booze is funny,
burn yourself and save your money.


**** Fitting beer to bottles with ****
Boiler: 50 Liter SS-Keg
Heat: Propane 9kw double ring burner
Still: LM/VM combined, 42mm, all copper, still.
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Re: New member . New still

Post by johnh89 »

Due to cicumstances beyond my control I still have not run my wash through it . It is still sitting on the bench in the garage where it has been for the last 3 months . With a bit of luck I may try it this weekend . I will let you know how it comes out .
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men " ......
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johnh89
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Re: New member . New still

Post by johnh89 »

Just ran my 6 month old wash through the new still and I think that we are on to a winner . When I sober up in a few days I will give you a more impartial view . Managed 1.5 litres or so at 66% .
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men " ......
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Elut »

I'm planning on building a still just like that one, probably next month.

I'm trying to find out the modification which has been done to make it foolproof, but I don't get it.

Is there someone to kindly explain the modification to me with basic drawings?

Thanks a lot in advance :D !
All Grain Beer Brewer
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Master-Peter »

The modification was to build the stillhead in 2 separate parts, so in case of blocking of the outlet no overpressure can build up. Besides, it is easier to clean that way.
You can see it on the picture "still in 2 parts" from John. This is different from the previous model.

Cheers Peter
If you think that booze is funny,
burn yourself and save your money.


**** Fitting beer to bottles with ****
Boiler: 50 Liter SS-Keg
Heat: Propane 9kw double ring burner
Still: LM/VM combined, 42mm, all copper, still.
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LWTCS
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Re: New member . New still

Post by LWTCS »

How are you sealing that (slip?) joint John?
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rad14701
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Re: New member . New still

Post by rad14701 »

LWTCS wrote:How are you sealing that (slip?) joint John?
I'm sure flour paste would work perfectly, if it needs anything at all due to the lap joint... Similar slip joints on my still have never leaked because vapor takes the path of least resistance, flowing up onto the condenser, and the condensate is at the mercy of gravity...
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Re: New member . New still

Post by johnh89 »

The slip joint is not sealed with anything . It was unsoldered from a previous incarnation and the male part wiped when the solder was wet . It is now a tight sliding fit and does not leak at all in use . As the top of the still is now open to the atmosphere there is zero pressure in the body of the still to make it leak .
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Re: New member . New still

Post by LWTCS »

Thanks,
Can you also describe how you are installing your nipples (your welds are really nice)?
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Elut
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Elut »

Thanks a lot Johnh89 and Master-Peter !
I understand much better now.

Still, what's your heating equipment?
I mean, I've read your first post and all, but would you mind developping a bit?

I'd love to go electric, for the temperature control. (Possibly an arduino with the PID soft.)
On this forum, I've read bad things about Propane, about Butane, about immersion heaters, about electric stoves...
Well, in a word, I've read bad thing about every single heating source...

Ideally I'd like to go with an immersion heating element. Any caution about that?
We're running on 220 here, what "W" would you all advise me to use?

Thanks always,
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HookLine
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Re: New member . New still

Post by HookLine »

Elut wrote: I'd love to go electric, for the temperature control. (Possibly an arduino with the PID soft.)

You do realise that you are not chasing specific temperatures, you are more interested in the pattern of temp change. A PID is probably not of much use here.

On this forum, I've read bad things about Propane, about Butane, about immersion heaters, about electric stoves...
Well, in a word, I've read bad thing about every single heating source...

There are no perfect solutions. 8)

Ideally I'd like to go with an immersion heating element. Any caution about that?

Main concern with any kind of immersion heating element is to make sure the boiler never runs dry and exposes the element when it is on. Easiest way to avoid that is to first fill the still with plain water until the element is fully covered, then add the alcoholic bit of the still charge.

(Obviously you want to mount the element as close to the bottom of the boiler as practically possible.)


We're running on 220 here, what "W" would you all advise me to use?

I would go with the maximum wattage (volts x current) that a standard household power point in your country can handle. Don't know about where you are, but in my country it is 240 v at 10 amps = 2400 watts, which is what I use.

Doing it this way means that there is never any danger of the still over drawing a standard power circuit, and you can plug it in almost anywhere. Downside is that it might take a while longer to heat up. Takes around 75-80 minutes for me to get 40 litres of still charge to boiling, using a 2400 w element (in a well insulated boiler). But I think the advantages outweigh the longer boil up time.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
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Elut
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Re: New member . New still

Post by Elut »

I'm working in a company which produces cables, so we have a product manager.
I asked him and he told me that we're running on 220v/60hz.
When I asked him how many "amps", he told me that he doesn't know, that it depends
on what kind of appliance we're talking about.

And then we got lost in translation, and we both had work to do... :roll:
(He gave me a post-it with written "circuit breaker" in Korean, just before to leave for a 1 week Biz trip)

I checked on wikipedia, and it confirms "Domestic power supply 220V/60 Hz, CEE 7/7 sockets"
But nowhere I'm able to figure out how many "amps" we've got here.
Any idea of the max wattage I'm able to safely draw?
All Grain Beer Brewer
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