CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby Getsmokin » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:48 am

Has anyone had an issue with not compressing the tails after making these mods? I'm sure its probably operator error. The one time I ran without, it ran up to the tails and just stopped. Now it just keeps on going till you stop it (more like a pot).
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby toetag » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:41 pm

googe wrote:A pic or better explanation of your still would help mate.


Its a 15gal SS stock pot with a 2inch copper column 36inches tall then reducing down to 3/8 copper tube straight out the top curving over going into a 3/8 worm that is 25ft long
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby T-Pee » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:08 pm

3/8" = too small, imo.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby rad14701 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:44 am

toetag wrote:
googe wrote:A pic or better explanation of your still would help mate.


Its a 15gal SS stock pot with a 2inch copper column 36inches tall then reducing down to 3/8 copper tube straight out the top curving over going into a 3/8 worm that is 25ft long

A 3/8" worm is too small of a diameter for a 15 gallon boiler... That would be the bare minimum for a boiler of 5 gallons or less... You should go with 1/2" copper minimum if you want to be safe and successful... The difference in vapor speed is the major difference...
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby toetag » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:58 am

I been using this thing since august. It has worked fine I believe from what i can tell. What would be the difference in 3/8 to1/2. More cooling capacity or is it something else?

Sorry didn't see that post before I wrote this. My bad.

Are saying that the 3/8 would make it move to fast?
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby T-Pee » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:34 am

That and if it gets clogged in a puke, you have a Ka-boom. Never a good thing.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby toetag » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:56 am

I hope im not dumb enough to let it fill that 3ft of 2inch pipe to the top to get to the 3/8 tube. The flour paste gasket between the boiler and lid will fail before that happens anyway.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby T-Pee » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:50 pm

toetag wrote:I hope im not dumb enough to let it fill that 3ft of 2inch pipe to the top to get to the 3/8 tube. The flour paste gasket between the boiler and lid will fail before that happens anyway.

We're not perfect: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5200

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby rad14701 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:54 pm

A 1/2" worm has almost twice the volume of 3/8"... So the vapor speed is essentially half as fast which results in better cooling efficiency... Some things matter and some don't... This matters so don't mitigate it with your rationale... Get a bigger worm...
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby toetag » Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:51 am

I see your point. I'm going to build a liebig with 1/2 inch pipe when I put the tube in. What size is the cross tube usualy. I know its not the best way of doing it.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby rad14701 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:01 pm

toetag wrote:I see your point. I'm going to build a liebig with 1/2 inch pipe when I put the tube in. What size is the cross tube usualy. I know its not the best way of doing it.

You'd want two, three, or even four cross tubes... I'd probably go with 3/8" myself and connect them together using clear hose... But I probably wouldn't go the cross tube route at all... My preference would be a concentric condenser...
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby toetag » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:07 am

I'm starting to gather supplies for my upgrade. Would 3/4 be better than 1/2 on my liebig?
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby T-Pee » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:16 am

Not necessarily. The majority of liebigs around here seem to be 3/4" over 1/2".

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby ohio » Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:57 am

I purchased the 8 gallon milk jug and 2" reflux from mile hi. I have almost outgrown the 8 gallon boiler and was wanting to upgrade to a 13 gallon milk jug boiler. I have found one from a different supplier other than mile hi that I like better. It's from moonshine distillers and their jug has a spout on the side. I like that feature because it looks easier to pull off backset and since I just started my first UJSSM I think this would be beneficial to have. My question is are these type of reflux towers some what interchangeable? I mean if I order a boiler from moonshine will it fit my mile hi tower? I know I will need an adapter to fit the 3" hole to fit my 2" tower but are the fittings the same? Thanks! If this is in the wrong thread I apologize and will move it.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby Full_moon » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:30 pm

T-Pee wrote:Not necessarily. The majority of liebigs around here seem to be 3/4" over 1/2".

tp


I just finished my 2nd liebig for my 8gallon still with MH cm , with a few improvement that made a considerable difference . I have a 24 in liebig 3/4" over 1/2"

#1 take the time to wrap the 1/2 in inner pipe with a circular/spiral wrap of copper wire around the outside, It turbulates the water .

I also made a spiral wrap of wire that goes in the inner 1/2 in. pipe. It is removeable, You kinda screw it in, made with copper ground wire.

I t made a big difference in the output temperature of the distillate when running a stripping run.

Both my liebigs are exactly the same dimensions, so I had a good comparison between the two.

There should be some discussion about these improvements here somewhere.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby toetag » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:56 am

I have ran my newly upgraded cm twice now. The first was my cleaning run i played with the water flow and the heat. At one point i had the burner wide open and the water coming out of the RF feeling like bath water and the product proofed at 150. Im pretty happy. The second run i ran much slower and had it coming off at 182 the whole run :clap: :lol: . Im pretty damn happy. :D
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby whistlewetter » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:59 am

Ok...I just finished all 10 pages. I made a post a while back about running this. I was directed this modification page. I have ran it a couple of times in pot mode. Since then we have built our own copper pot still columns and I have been using that. Now, I am starting to get the itch to try this reflux. So here is my understanding or lack there of....
I will be using propane, a 15.5 gallon keg with 10 to 15 gallons of Wineos(hopefully). This is the column I will be using...
column.PNG


1)Crank the heat up
2)When the column temp starts to climb (I am guessing around 150 or 160 degrees) open the column condensor all the way and hold for about an hour.
3)Then, lower column condensor flow until a drop or two per minute of product comes out of the product condensor.
4)Collect fores.
5)Once fores are collected open flow to the column condensor until no product is coming out and hold there for 30-45 minutes.
6)Turn down the flow to the column condensor until the product comes out at about 3 drops a minute or it looks like a slow twisted stream.
7)Collect in small jars (I use pints) allow to air for 24 to 48 hours and make cuts.
If for some reason I am having a hard time with any of the above I would manipulate the heat to achieve desired results.

Am I understanding this correctly? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Brian
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby rad14701 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:57 am

whistlewetter wrote:2)When the column temp starts to climb (I am guessing around 150 or 160 degrees) open the column condensor all the way and hold for about an hour.

Others may have different opinions but I feel it to be a waste of time and heat energy to leave the boiler at equilibrium for more than 15 minutes... Once the entire boiler charge is up to temperature the boiler head space and packed column will be fully saturated with the lowest temperature distillate vapor already... I've left at equilibrium from 5 - 45 minutes and never noticed any difference in the spirits collected... I usually have everything arranged for collection and have checked for vapor and coolant leaks within 10 minutes of initial equilibrium so I rarely have patience to wait more than 15 minutes before I start collecting foreshots... YMMV...

Sounds like you're on track... :thumbup:
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby whistlewetter » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:11 pm

Thanks rad!
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby McTasty07 » Sat May 16, 2015 8:24 pm

Hey guy, I have been reading through this post a lot. Wow what a bunch of great information. So I am very new to this so if I'm not reading this right correct me, but, the centering ring idea is a good one, or so I first thought I. Theory to prevent the condensate from running down the walls by passing the packing would the centering ring not need to be above the packing. And if so wouldn't that just be In a position where it would not have an effect on the reflux. Like I said correct me if I'm over thinking this.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby T-Pee » Sun May 17, 2015 5:57 am

I think many of us have decided that a centering ring isn't necessary due to wicking of the distillate away from the walls by the packing. We've also gotten a good look via video at what happens inside a column and there's a whole lotta boiling going on in there mixing stuff up. I can't remember whose video it is with the glass column but it's very enlightening. Hopefully someone will repost it here.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby ELT » Mon May 18, 2015 10:46 am

Quote from the very 1st post:

The reason you want the coolant flowing from the bottom of the reflux condenser up and out the top is. You want it to be flooded at all times. If the flow was reversed it mite lead to a siphoning action pulling all the water out of the condenser. By it flowing up it has to fill it to the point of the outlet before it can leave. This maybe contradictory of the way it really should flow. But unless you can devise a system to make sure the condenser stays flooded at all times. The way I described it is the easiest and best way to do it. Especially for a new still operator.



One solution would be to relocate the reflux condenser needle valve to the OUTLET of the condenser - this would allow a flow restriction which would ensure the condenser remains full at all times (assuming on the initial fill all air is vented from the condenser). Controlling flow on the outlet is the method utilized in datacenters to ensure equal water balance across multiple CRAC units that are piped in parallel. Will work here also.

Only 9 more pages to read before I know if this thought was already voiced!!! If so then I get to humbly apologize and delete it.... 8 )
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby tom sawyer » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:02 pm

I am using my PSII in reflux mode for the first time. 2" column packed with copper, heating with a 1500W band heater controlled with router controller, and using their standard ball valve to control reflux water. I kept bumping up the power trying to get the flow I thought I wanted with a decent reflux flow, and all of a sudden the still started puking. I shut it down and started over at a lower power and am making my adjustments with reflux water adjustments only. I'm running 5gal of 40% heads/tails.

Why did this thing puke? I'm guessing it was too much power and it boiled up in the column when I backed off on the reflux water?

Edited to add: the column is uninsulated. Why do I want to insulate it? I was thinking I'd get a little more reflux from it being open to the air.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby Kegg_jam » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:54 pm

Pukes suck, that's for sure.

Just for clarity, was it a puke or a flood?

There's more to it but the short answer is pukes are from not having enough head space and floods are from too much reflux.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby tom sawyer » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:05 pm

I think I had both. The first one I described was off color and probably a puke. Since I restarted I've had a couple of floods as I adjusted the water flow. Its crazy, but I guess this is part of the learning curve.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby rad14701 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:02 am

tom sawyer wrote:I am using my PSII in reflux mode for the first time. 2" column packed with copper, heating with a 1500W band heater controlled with router controller, and using their standard ball valve to control reflux water. I kept bumping up the power trying to get the flow I thought I wanted with a decent reflux flow, and all of a sudden the still started puking. I shut it down and started over at a lower power and am making my adjustments with reflux water adjustments only. I'm running 5gal of 40% heads/tails.

Why did this thing puke? I'm guessing it was too much power and it boiled up in the column when I backed off on the reflux water?

Edited to add: the column is uninsulated. Why do I want to insulate it? I was thinking I'd get a little more reflux from it being open to the air.

A boiler charge of 40% spirits requires far less heat than a boiler full of low %ABV wash... It's part of the learning process...
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby tom sawyer » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:01 am

I wondered if it was related to the strength of the low wines. Usually on my pot still spirit runs they are 30%. I read the thread on flooding, and am giving it a go again today. Cut way back on power, now I'm dialing up till I can push it to the top of the column.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby Kegg_jam » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:23 am

I don't know much about that still. Can the cooling be shut off to the reflux condenser and still have the product condenser working?

If so, I'd shut off the reflux condenser until I established a thin stream of product output and then turn on the cooling to the RC till it product stops coming out. Establish a base line and work from there till you find your limits.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby tom sawyer » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:21 am

I'll give that a shot. I went and bought some insulation and wrapped the column, hopefully that will help reduce the chance of flooding too.
Edited to add: Long day but I am getting a better feel for the reflux mode and I got a lot of good liquor from refluxing the heads/tails.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Postby tom sawyer » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:29 pm

I'm still trying to get a handle on the balance between power and reflux cooling water flow management on this Brewhaus PS2 2", 7gal. I plumbed the outlet of the reflux condenser to its own line so I could gauge the flow. I'm heating with a 1500W band heater and controlling that with a router controller. I bring to a boil at full power then switch to the controller. This last time I ran, I found it necessary to throttle back the reflux cooling water to just a fast drip in order to get product flow. Is this normal? I read you want the water to come out hot to the touch and this is what it took. I have the lines plumbed and angled so they stay full even as the water flows very slowly.
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