Elliptical inline head

VM CM LM Flutes Plate

Moderator: Site Moderator

Elliptical inline head

Postby Professor Duck » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:10 pm

I want to eventually make a fractioning still and I want to go with an inline head, for simplicity and to save money on fittings. The only design I've seen has a return line just before the needle valve. What I was thinking is: why not just have it drip straight off the bottom plate back onto the packing? If you made the plate a bit shallower and had it curve downwards at the end, with a pointy bit to make the reflux fall on the middle of the packing, I think it would work OK.

Here's a diagram:

Image
Image If Leonardo da Vinci had a video camera.
User avatar
Professor Duck
Novice
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:58 am
Location: Here behind my Wall

Postby linw » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:19 am

Looks good to me. As long as the excess distillate returns to the centre of the packing it will be good to go.
Cheers,
Lindsay.
linw
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:10 am
Location: Wellington, NZ

Re: Elliptical inline head

Postby Fourway » Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:24 am

Professor Duck wrote:What I was thinking is: why not just have it drip straight off the bottom plate back onto the packing? If you made the plate a bit shallower and had it curve downwards at the end, with a pointy bit to make the reflux fall on the middle of the packing, I think it would work OK.


This will work, in the now extinct BOKAKOB pages he shows an intermediate design something like this. His final design with the Y tube seems to me to be a little bit more advanced, the reflux returning through a tube is to my way of thinking a bit less passive, though I can't really justify that.
"a woman who drives you to drink is hard to find, most of them will make you drive yourself."
anon--
User avatar
Fourway
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 636
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:11 am
Location: The Hinges of Hades

Postby fish » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:35 pm

Place a thermometer under the top plate away from any of the returning distillate to keep accurate reading of the temp at the top of the vapor section of your column
User avatar
fish
Novice
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:40 pm
Location: I see Table Rock

Postby Professor Duck » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:36 pm

I made a model out of paper last night. This morning I coated it in wax and tested it. It works. Anyway, you've got a point Fourway, that just got me thinking that the final BOKAKOB design would probably be more reliable too. And less fiddly. Fiddly things almost never work for me.

Oh yeah, one other thing: where do you put a thermometer in this kind of head?
Image If Leonardo da Vinci had a video camera.
User avatar
Professor Duck
Novice
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:58 am
Location: Here behind my Wall

Postby rkr » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:59 am

Professor Duck wrote:I made a model out of paper last night. This morning I coated it in wax and tested it. It works. Anyway, you've got a point Fourway, that just got me thinking that the final BOKAKOB design would probably be more reliable too. And less fiddly. Fiddly things almost never work for me.

Oh yeah, one other thing: where do you put a thermometer in this kind of head?


I've used that bent plate design for a quite long time. One option is to insert straight plate and use a long screwdriver to make a bend to it once in place. IMO this is much easier to make and works just as well.

BTW, the pointy tip on the plate is a nice add on.

Greetz, Riku
rkr
 

Postby Josesillo » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:21 pm

i just finished my still it looks great, even with the rust formed from welding, i made the elliptical plates with the pointy tip, i used 1.50 m of 2" copper pipe for the column and the condenser coil is 5 m of 1/4 wound around a wooden broom handle. all the pieces come off very easy using 2" copper couplings.
i'll post some pics later
- - - - - - -

--Fishing and Distilling... What else is there to do???.--
User avatar
Josesillo
Bootlegger
 
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:04 pm
Location: Venezuela

Postby linw » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:35 pm

Sounds good, Jose. Look forward to the pics.
Cheers,
Lindsay.
linw
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:10 am
Location: Wellington, NZ

re:

Postby bigA » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:51 pm

I was thinking for the distillate catching plate I would cut the column on an angle and insert a flat copper piece, trim-flush and solder in place...Would this work or am I going the wrong way. I would then just use the Bokakob y pipe to run the distillate back to the packing with a single needle valve. BTW, I have a condenser with a plate attached to the bottom of it for the top plate.

Any thoughts on how much packed 2" column I should have. I have 6' of 2" pipe and height is not an issue.

Regards,
BigA
bigA
 

Postby knuklehead » Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:59 pm

The plate installation you mentioned should work fine, in fact I have read about doing it that way. Here is a link to calculate how much packed column you need for the purity you want. Check it out.
http://homedistiller.org/reflux_calc.htm
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
User avatar
knuklehead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:52 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Professor Duck » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:10 pm

knuklehead wrote:The plate installation you mentioned should work fine, in fact I have read about doing it that way.


Yeah, I imagine that trying to solder elliptical plates inside the pipe would be hell.

fish wrote:Place a thermometer under the top plate


But how do you mount it?
Image If Leonardo da Vinci had a video camera.
User avatar
Professor Duck
Novice
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:58 am
Location: Here behind my Wall

RE:

Postby bigA » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:51 pm

Knuckel, I think this about the second time you mentioned this .org page to me when asked a question about column height. I've read home distiller about 20 times now and go back every week to look at it. Knuckle, look at what you just asked me to look at! How would someone who has never made a run and is just building a still know some of the questions on the column height calculator?? Of all the great pages on that site, some of those calulators are the worst.


From what I've read, a packed column of 36" or more is required to produce ~95%.

What effect, if any, should I plan for when i build an elliptical still over a common Nixon/stone or off-set valved reflux still(as far as column height)?

I'm asking this because Alex Bakokob told me that he was getting 95% from his last still which was packed only 30" high.

I'm sure he's right, but at what rate? I want high %, but with enough volume to make it worth my time. I'm guessing a valved refluxed still with a packed height of 12" could produce 96% @ 100ML/hour, but I'd be sober a day after the run.

thanks,
BigA
bigA
 

Postby knuklehead » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:47 pm

The calculator is actually quite simple to use. What is the volume of the wash? What is the % of the wash? Power during heat up? Power during distillation? Time step for calculations? Initial temperature of wash? height of packing in column? Diameter of column? Reflux ration? Then select the type of packing you want to use and that's all you need. The part where is says "or guess your own values" you don't have to fill in. If you have been doing a bit of research these are all questions you have a good idea of the answers to. Which questions don't you know the answers to? I am always happy to respond to questions that I have an answer to so I hope I am not being accused of "here's a link, figure it out yourself" because that is way way off. The calculator doesn't claim to be accurate but once you enter the information, even if you just make a guess you can adjust your data form there and see the results. For example punch in 20 L wash at 15% heated up with a 1500 W element which is cut back to 1000 W during distillation. The initial temperature of the wash before heat up was 20 C and the column is packed up to 24" with stainless steel scrubbers. Set the "time step" to calculate your run in 30 minute intervals with a 3 to 1 reflux ratio and then hit the calculate button. Now you should have some information on what your run will look like % wise temperature and so on. You don't have to fill out the "Estimate of Reflux performance" This information will get filled out after you hit calculate. That is part of what the calculator does, it tells you form the information you have entered how many plates your column contains. After you have hit the calculate button then you can go back and adjust your "packed height of column" and see what adding another 12" to the column does. Then another 12" or whatever. Before you have done a run or even built a still is the best time to be given this information. After you have already built it then you will already have this information and to change it would be back tracking your efforts. Hope this makes sense.
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
User avatar
knuklehead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:52 pm
Location: Canada

Postby FLICK » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:33 pm

Even though I've spent hours reading homedistiller.org I had missed that calculator.
Very neat :) it answered all my questions about the relationship between wash/boiler temp, column temp, and purity .... and how much power I'm going to have to put in while distilling...

I'm more confident that my first run will be a success now:)

Thanks
FLICK
 

Postby Firebaall » Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:58 am

Is this design similar to the one for sale here?

Amphora PDA-1

http://www.home-distilling.com/index.asp


I've heard of BOKAKOB's designs, but I didn't have a chance to take a look before they were pulled. Is it possible that they were pulled because BOKAKOB decided to use his plans for a commercial venture? Maybe even this very product?

If I'm rambling and off base, forgive me. I'm very new to the subject.
Firebaall
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:42 am

Postby MyDBear » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:53 am

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i just finished my still it looks great, even with the rust formed from welding


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have rust of any kind then i would'nt think that this kind of matal should be used for a still
Be Patient God aint finished with me yet
User avatar
MyDBear
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Location: The other side of your monitor

RE:

Postby bigA » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 pm

Fireball, no I think he pulled his pages due to a patent issue with a commerical distiller...

Knuckel, I get your point...But, having not built my still I still have too many questions about heat input, volume, and wash %. I think most of the reflux stills I've seen operate with a column packed height of 36" with some wishing they had gone more.

I was just just wanting an input on the effect of and in-line head over an off-set head as far as column height goes. I was planning a 36" packed height and I think I will go with that...I can cut it faster than adding it back!!!

~bigA
bigA
 

Postby knuklehead » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:59 pm

My column is 36" packed height and I get 94.5% at 600 ml per hour running at around 1000 W. If I added another 12" I could could get it to 95% but then it would be 12" more to store so I am happy with it.
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
User avatar
knuklehead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:52 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Firebaall » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:55 am

knuklehead wrote:My column is 36" packed height and I get 94.5% at 600 ml per hour running at around 1000 W. If I added another 12" I could could get it to 95% but then it would be 12" more to store so I am happy with it.


I've seen pics of your rig in the Off-topic forum. Very impressive work indeed.
Firebaall
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:42 am

Postby knuklehead » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:37 am

Thanks firebaall :oops:
... I say God bless you, I don't say bless you ... I am not the Lord, I can't do that ...
Dane Cook
User avatar
knuklehead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:52 pm
Location: Canada

Postby pothead » Fri May 04, 2007 7:38 am

Hey.
I know it has been discussed time and time again, But...I want to be sure before I do it.

I'm building a column similar to the bokakob mini still (but bigger,lol)

But, I want to make sure I put the thermometer in the right spot.

The column is 40" from the where it meets the keg-to the top, and is 2" copper. I am going to use a double-wound condenser (would also like some suggestions on how much copper I should use for the coil)

But the main thing...where to put the darn thermometer....
I don't want to put it too close to where the condensed booze drips down to the colection plate cause I would think that it would be cool in that area.....

What do all of you think? Or if anyone has something similar, where did you mount yours...and with success?
"Be nice to America, or we'll bring democracy to your country."
"The best things in life aren't things."


"Imagination is more important than Knowledge"-Albert Einstein
pothead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:46 am
Location: at my freakin' computer

Postby PUGIDOGS » Fri May 04, 2007 10:13 am

pothead,

I mounted mine in between the top plate and the bottom plate. It is hidden under the top plate in the vapor path. I put the thermometer in just far enough that it is in vapor but not so far that the condensed distillant with drop on it. Works for me...Pugi
User avatar
PUGIDOGS
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: In the sticks

Postby pothead » Fri May 04, 2007 10:20 am

PUGIDOGS wrote:pothead,

I mounted mine in between the top plate and the bottom plate. It is hidden under the top plate in the vapor path. I put the thermometer in just far enough that it is in vapor but not so far that the condensed distillant with drop on it. Works for me...Pugi


That is what I was gonna do, I just want to make sure. Iwas just worried that it might be a little too close to the top plate....

Thanks.

Oh, and do you think a 40" column is gonna be big enough(once the codenser is in place)?
"Be nice to America, or we'll bring democracy to your country."
"The best things in life aren't things."


"Imagination is more important than Knowledge"-Albert Einstein
pothead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:46 am
Location: at my freakin' computer

Postby PUGIDOGS » Fri May 04, 2007 10:39 am

Pothead,

My 2 inch bokakok has 32 inches from bowl to offtake tube plus whats on top for the condenser. From a 40ABV run of heads and tail to make vodka I can get 93% running fast, 1200 to 1600ml and hour with 15 copper scrubbers in the column.

If you slow way way down I can get 95% at like 200ml and hour. Not worth it to me.

If I was going to make another just for nuetral spirits it would be 48 inches from bowl to offtake tube. You add in the condenser it would be almost 6 feet. :shock: Right now I am making a potstill, after that maybe I will put an extention on mine.

Mine is middle road. Works ok for nuetral spirits and whiskey in detuned mode.

My plates are 1/2 inch apart, Thermometer is about 1/4 inch from top plate.

I was thinking about adding a small tube through the column about 2 inches under the bottom plate and running water through it for more reflux. In hopes for 95% at fast takeoff rate. Someone chime in here if you think it will work....Pugi
Last edited by PUGIDOGS on Fri May 04, 2007 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
PUGIDOGS
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: In the sticks

Postby PUGIDOGS » Fri May 04, 2007 10:46 am

Image

Not a good pic but the best I have right now...Pugi
User avatar
PUGIDOGS
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: In the sticks

Postby pothead » Fri May 04, 2007 5:00 pm

Thanks.

I think I'm gonna add a union to the top of the 40" tube, and add a 8-10" peice on top for my condenser, top plate and thermometer tube.

I appreciate the help.

~pot
"Be nice to America, or we'll bring democracy to your country."
"The best things in life aren't things."


"Imagination is more important than Knowledge"-Albert Einstein
pothead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:46 am
Location: at my freakin' computer

Postby PUGIDOGS » Fri May 04, 2007 5:55 pm

Pothead,

Something to think about.....I solid mounted my top plate just like the you would the bottom. Reason being is with the top plate soldered to the condenser and not solid mounted there is always a chance of misalianment. With it cut in and soldered, there is no chance it will get out of alianment. I then made my condenser to fit just above the top plate....Pugi
User avatar
PUGIDOGS
Swill Maker
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Location: In the sticks

Postby pothead » Sun May 06, 2007 7:55 am

Ok, Thanks for the tips.

I ended up putting a union at the top of my 40" x 2" column and added a 12" piece of 2" copper. The 12" piece contains my condenser, top plate (not connected to the condenser...like you suggested), bottom plate (and take-off tube and valve), and thermometer tube. The 40" piece has a union right in the middle to break it in half for storage and in case I ever want to run it without the middle piece.

Now, all I have to do is find somewhere to get the right size couplings to weld on to my keg for my 2 internal elements, and one for a drain valve. (that is gonna take me a couple weeks, I'll post pics when its all done)

Again, Thanks for the ideas.
"Be nice to America, or we'll bring democracy to your country."
"The best things in life aren't things."


"Imagination is more important than Knowledge"-Albert Einstein
pothead
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:46 am
Location: at my freakin' computer

Postby manu de hanoi » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:07 am

cant see the original design drawing .....
User avatar
manu de hanoi
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 747
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:06 am


Return to Column Builds



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests