Making your own copper packing

[Bushman]

I am putting together a tutorial for making your own copper packing, it is the method I used on my own 4" column but this tutorial is set up for a 2" column. On my 2" column I bought two 1 lbs packs to fill my still at MileHi at a cost of $11.89 plus tax a pound. First I would like to give credit where credit is due as the idea came from Mash Rookie and he had the wire tested to make sure it was 100 copper. Along the way I will try to save you from some of the pitfalls I ran into until figuring out the best way I could to unwind the wire.

TUTORIAL
Total cost with tax $11.41 but if you bought cable at scrap yard it would be a lot less
Material needed:
one 3 ft length of welding cable, 2/0 600V
vise grips
drill motor
X-acto knife

1. Strip outer casing to separate wire

I ended up with 19 strands of wire that needs to be separated into each strand

2. At this point it's important to follow the directions to avoid the tangling I got when I first attempted this. Take each strand one at a time and on one end pinch all the wire (make sure you get all the wire pinched) and put the other end in a drill motor. Set the motor for reverse, stand on the vise grips pulling the wire tight so it doesn't twist on itself and start to unwind. If it starts to wind back up then put it back in forward.

When taking it out you need to be careful so that it doesn't snarl. What made it easier for me is to leave it in the vise grips and while still keeping it straight work my way down the wire strand separating it even more.

3. Do this to each strand and combine the strands working them together. Depending on the length of your column you can stagger the strands back and forth. In this tutorial the packing is 49" long out of a 3' cable.

4. I gave mine an acid bath to rough it up as I believe it retains the liquid better.

Another advantage is the material is thicker wire which I think also adds to the density needed during reflux.

[planethax]

Very nice write up bushman.

[DAD300]

+1 on the thicker wire/mass being a positive over Scrubbies. The greater mass will transfer heat more efficiently up the column. This is one of the major differences with SPP.

The greater the mass, the less void, the greater the transfer of heat,...better HETP!

[pfshine]

Ahh man now i gotta make another still to try this. I can get all the cable i want for free. I would think channeling would be a problem if made to thin or spindly.

[Bushman]

Yes, I did not reveal the method as MR was going to make stills commercially (that was almost 3 years ago) but since that didn't materialize and he moved toward other packing material and with his health he is not going commercial. I thought I would share what I did as there have been several resent threads on packing. My final picture really doesn't do the density of it justice.

[Bushman]

Hey is that Basil in the last picture? I love basil! I have to try this, I have a section on my column that I use to experiment with packing, it's been full of lava rock for the last year or two.

Really that was three years ago? Man time flys.

Not to stray too far from topic but that plant is a Buddha's Hand. I plan on growing the fruit for my infused citrus drinks. A lot of members do not know what a Buddha's Hand is and it would not survive as an outdoor plant in my area. Hanger one vodka uses it in their product as it does not have the pith of a regular lemon. In Asia people grow them indoors for the fragrance. Below is a picture of the fruit (that plant is still several years away from producing).

image.jpg (18.92 KiB) Viewed 16166 times

[Bushman]

So your not really taking each wire strand out but wire clusters right? In each cluster there are multiple single strands?
You can delete my off topic comments to keep this thread on track.

No problem, I will leave it as it might give others an idea! Too answer your question, when you use the drill motor it opens it up but doesn't totally separate. That's when I take it out of the drill motor and separate it more while standing on the vise grips working toward the vise grips. Once I get it open then I combine them with the other strips and work them together separating even more. If you don't get the wires tangled (that's why I suggest my method) it takes about 1/2 hour to separate all the strips and work them together.

[UKbiker]

Would there be any reason not to solder each end of the individual wires together? Then they could be unraveled but the ends would be soldered together so they won't grab things and get tangled up.

[googe]

Nice one bushman

[Bushman]

Would there be any reason not to solder each end of the individual wires together? Then they could be unraveled but the ends would be soldered together so they won't grab things and get tangled up.

Not sure I understand the question, you want them unravelled to fill the column?

[UKbiker]

You want all the individual strands 'fluffed' up and pulled apart to fill the column, correct? Well it would be the little sharp ends that get bent and cause the mass to get tangled and a bit of a pain to align and handle, I would imagine.

If you soldered the very ends and untwisted the middle you would have a nice fluffy bundle that is easy to handle because there are no sharp ends to grab and tangle with the other strands. So the first and last inch or so wouldn't be 'fluffy' because each wire, or small bundle of strands, would be soldered but would quickly fluff out to look like your picture.

I'm know I'm not wording that very good but hopefully you understand. It would be done to simply make handling easier. Something like this minus the "." because it messes with the formatting without them:

... l l l
lllllllllllllll
lllllllllllllll
lllllllllllllll
lllllllllllllll
... l l l

Edit: It might even help distribute the (reflux?) alcohol through the packing. As the alcohol drops down on the tightly packed soldered ends, it might get pulled to the outside from capillary action instead of staying mainly in the center where it drips. Just a WAG.

[BoisBlancBoy]

Am I missing something, how would just one of those fill even 2" column or do you need to do it multiple times?

[Bushman]

Am I missing something, how would just one of those fill even 2" column or do you need to do it multiple times?

I posted 19 but I found another band on the floor so if you separate all 20 and then unravel them and work them together as explained as the picture doesn't do it justice but it will be a tight fit and I staggered them so it came to about 49" long. 6' filled my 4" by 40" column which would be 4 times the volumn of a 2" so 3' is easily enough.

[Bushman]

You want all the individual strands 'fluffed' up and pulled apart to fill the column, correct? Well it would be the little sharp ends that get bent and cause the mass to get tangled and a bit of a pain to align and handle, I would imagine.

If you soldered the very ends and untwisted the middle you would have a nice fluffy bundle that is easy to handle because there are no sharp ends to grab and tangle with the other strands. So the first and last inch or so wouldn't be 'fluffy' because each wire, or small bundle of strands, would be soldered but would quickly fluff out to look like your picture.

I'm know I'm not wording that very good but hopefully you understand. It would be done to simply make handling easier. Something like this minus the "." because it messes with the formatting without them:

... l l l
lllllllllllllll
lllllllllllllll
lllllllllllllll
lllllllllllllll
... l l l

Edit: It might even help distribute the (reflux?) alcohol through the packing. As the alcohol drops down on the tightly packed soldered ends, it might get pulled to the outside from capillary action instead of staying mainly in the center where it drips. Just a WAG.

Might be easier way, like I said it took me just over 1/2 an hour to do it.

[Hound Dog]

Am I missing something, how would just one of those fill even 2" column or do you need to do it multiple times?

I posted 19 but I found another band on the floor so if you separate all 20 and then unravel them and work them together as explained as the picture doesn't do it justice but it will be a tight fit and I staggered them so it came to about 49" long. 6' filled my 4" by 40" column which would be 4 times the volumn of a 2" so 3' is easily enough.

I am pretty hard headed here..... you are loosing me with the 19 and then back to the 3'. Is this one section of 2/0 cable 3' long enough to do a 2" column?

I have a 3" column that requires 4'6" of packing. Should I use two pieces of 2/0 cable 4'6" long unraveled and see how much will fit in a 3" column or do I need 38 pieces of 2/0 cable 4'6" long? Sorry for confusing what seems so simple of a subject.

[emptyglass]

Good stuff Bushman!

[Bushman]

I am pretty hard headed here..... you are loosing me with the 19 and then back to the 3'. Is this one section of 2/0 cable 3' long enough to do a 2" column?

I have a 3" column that requires 4'6" of packing. Should I use two pieces of 2/0 cable 4'6" long unraveled and see how much will fit in a 3" column or do I need 38 pieces of 2/0 cable 4'6" long? Sorry for confusing what seems so simple of a subject.

In this Tutorial I bought 3' of 2/0, when unravelled it is a bit longer than 3' and when you follow the steps and stagger them back and forth mine came out to 49". If you use it to pack then it will easily fill your column.

[Bandito]

For a 2" column how tight will the wire packing be, and if it is pretty snug or tight how do you get it inserted without messing it up?

[Halfbaked]

Im 100% stainless (pot still) untill the liebig and think this would be a great exchange for the scrubeess (not reflux). Ive not done a reflux but will do one as soon as im back up and running and will use DAD300s gas line in a Tee . I was thinking of using/making copper SPP or scrubbees or buying lava rock. This is much easier and cheaper than making SPP and last longer than scrubbees. I do like the idea of soldering the end or ends. It would be easier to pull through the pipe. How would you rate this vs SPP and Lava rock in terms of effiency?

Bushman you are on a run. You have had some excellant threads lately. Keep it up.

[Bushman]

Should pack pretty tight, I did this tutorial as an example, what I did on my 4" with 6' of wire is just start working it down the the column, you can use a broom handle to help pack it. If you think it's not enough you can always get more and add to it.

[Bandito]

That makes sense. I was thinking that the wires would have to remain in a straight position. If I'm not mistaking they could be bunched up a bit without affecting the performance.

[crazywednesday]

I am new to this, trying to understand. It is basically a bunch of individually twisted copper wires packed vertically in a column?

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

Yup. Pretty much. Grab some stranded wire, untwist it, stuff in column. To put it very simply.

[Bushman]

That makes sense. I was thinking that the wires would have to remain in a straight position. If I'm not mistaking they could be bunched up a bit without affecting the performance.

Actually better if the are twisted, Entrainment occurs when the condensed alcohol travels down the sides of the column to the boiler if the wire was straight it would do the same thing, what plates//trays or packing does is help with the fractionating process to equalize and separate the different volatiles.

[waster]

Could you buy SS security cable and do the same thing in stainless? Stainless cable is more readily available than 2/0 and I have a copper column, so don't need any more copper.....

[waster]

BTW, I missed any comments about how this performs relative to scrubbers or other packing... It seems like the vertical wire strands would allow good flow and be pretty immune to flooding. Will this allow higher power / higher throughput?

[Sungy]

I tried making packing with this technique. I used 8 gauge wire and the same process of untwisting. I then wrapped it around a 3/8 rod to produce copper springs. Not exactly SSP but looks cool in a jar of heads / tails to prevent tarnishing.

[waster]

Sungy--do let us know when you try using it.

I did some rough calculations and found that 30ft of 3/16" dia 304 stainless rope, 7x19, should work also. Some details are:

2/0 cable has 1235 strands that are 0.010" dia each

3/16 7x19 cable has 133 strands that are about .010 each, so you need ~9-10 more length to get the same amount. This is approximate--haven't gone to the store with calipers.

[waster]

I PM'ed Bushman and he reports producing ~1 gal of 93-95% product in 3.5-4 hours with this packing in a 4" CM column.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

That's good. I got about 2m of 25mm thick stranded cable yesterday. Surplus from work, and better then buying scrubbies.