ragers first reflux still

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rager
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ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

welp ,

im going to start my first reflux still. this is all new to me. ive skimmed through the reflux threads taking in a little bit but ive been a pot still guy up to this point. I have a nice collection of AG whiskeys and "bourbons" and some "scotch" . set side so I figured lets see what else I can do here

my plan is to build a 3 or 4 plate reflux still. I really want to start making neutrals/vodka because that what I drink when im out.

the idea of single run whiskeys excites the hell out of me more than anything (no more stripping/spirit run on the pot)

now as a newbie to the column still game ive got a lot to learn but I wanted to start here with a simple build from what ive learned here. I plan on doing perf plates. for me it seems like the easiest way to go to start. some of the longer sticky flute threads I havent jumped into but im sure once I get started ill dive in.

I have about 20 inches of 3 inch copper. should be enough for a few plates, . Im going to be running a 6 gallon stock pot I think . this build will be built to adapt to a keg. so im thinking a 2 to 3 SS reducer ,3 plates , another 3 to 2 then my boka head on top . would this perf plate and LM boka work ?

any and all input is welcome. this is going to be a a huge learning curve but im excited

ill get more into the details of the build and my ideas. most of my questions will hopefully just reassuring info that's in my head , unless im completely off.

Cheers,
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Danespirit »

No, you are not completely off Rager. :ewink:
If you wish to produce Vodka, a CCVM would be a good choice...and it's by far the easiest to build.
I can understand your facination of a plated column, i like them very much too.
The only problem is the ease of build. A VM is much easier and would accomplish your goal for Vodka.
Anyway, if you are determent to build a plated, why not considder a bubblecap version?
It would spare you from drilling a lot of holes and could be done with one bubblecap for each plate in a 3"'er you already have at hand.
Just my humble opinion..

Edit: While i can't see why a Boka over perforated plates shouldn't work, i can't see any reason to do so??
Maybe others chime in and have a idea i didn't think of..?
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by humbledore »

Yes a packed section will work over plates quite well. But I'm not clear on the whole boka head thing. A plated still can run fast...much faster than a boka. I would say you're shooting yourself in the foot by using a boka head. Most plated stills on here are CM which means the reflux condenser is not on top, it's before the takeoff to the product condenser. So you are mixing designs. Nothing wrong with being creative but just make sure you think it through.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by googe »

I agree with humbledore, think.it through and do lots of research, will save you heartache while building. I've never made sieve plates, but most say there not that hard once you get into it. I use single caps, there pretty easy to build to. Are you doing a plate tree or doing modules?. It doesn't matter what rc you have on top, its only there to reflux, and in a Plater case, keep plates loaded. as long as your boka head can handle the takeoff rate it should work. Id imagine a 3" should produce something like 1.8~2.5lph, depends how you like running a still to. I've always run 22" lava packed section over three plates and works well. You'll love not having to do strp runs anymore!!. With neutral, it does still retain some flavors with a single run, but if you want some flavors or body in your vodka it works good.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

I plan on building a modular set up. i was going to cut my 3 inch in 4 inch long sections. is the about the right length?

im planning on making easy flanges out of large gage copper wire then turning them on a lathe to fit tri clamps. the second part of the plan was to turn an inside shoulder of the flange so the plate ( either sieve or bubble cap) can rest in there like ive seen others do here. or maybe turn the flanges down so i can squeeze the plate with the triclamp.

the reason i mentioned wanting to use the boka head is because i already built it for a keg but never used the keg. so i have 4 feet of 2 inch as well plus the boka.

so from the boiler up

2-3 ss reducer
3 modular plates
a delphleg (still need to read up a little more on that but from the looks of it , its a pipe inside a pipe with a water inlet and outlet . how long in length does the delphleg have to be to? figure it may end up on a keg someday )
another 3-2 ss reducer
the a couple feet of packed 2 inch (again modular)
a couple of 2" 90s
then to a product condenser , probably a liebig

so far how does this sound?
googe wrote: You'll love not having to do strp runs anymore!!. With neutral, it does still retain some flavors with a single run, but if you want some flavors or body in your vodka it works good.
this is why im building this thing.

ive added a couple pics of my boka, just so you can see ive got a little copper ability :)
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humbledore
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by humbledore »

So you made a Boka, which is perfectly suited for neutral, and you're going to use that Boka head on top regardless, and you're looking to make neutral...fire that thing up! That's what it's for. I understand the urge to pursue new and exciting builds, for sure, but if you pack this thing with dime sized lava rock it will turn out neutral all day long.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Danespirit »

+1 Humbledore
Ad as i mentioned before, i still can't see the point in a Boka on top of a plated column.. :wtf:
Use the Boka as the tool it's intended to be and build a plated column, to use it for the one thing it's good for...running flavoured without a strippingrun.
Now with that said, 4" space as you intended for the distance between the plates should be ok for a 3" plated.
If everything comes together , it's a matter of how hard you want to run it. The issue you will discover when running it with to much power is called "entrainment".
It happens when you throw so much power at it, the plate beneath starts to throw up liquid to the bottom of the plate above.
Although this is not a dangerous situation, it will decrease the efficiency of the plate above, rendering you with a flooded still that don't work as intended.
it can somehow be compared to a flooded packed column. Efficency suffers and eventually it will blow distillate out of your condenser.

Edit: You didn't mention it was a 2" Boka.
If you put that on top of a 3" plated column, you haven't only shot yourself in the foot, you also reloaded and tried the other foot to see if it could be real..! :wtf: :moresarcasm:
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

Danespirit wrote:+1 Humbledore
Ad as i mentioned before, i still can't see the point in a Boka on top of a plated column.. :wtf:
Use the Boka as the tool it's intended to be and build a plated column, to use it for the one thing it's good for...running flavoured without a strippingrun.
Now with that said, 4" space as you intended for the distance between the plates should be ok for a 3" plated.
If everything comes together , it's a matter of how hard you want to run it. The issue you will discover when running it with to much power is called "entrainment".
It happens when you throw so much power at it, the plate beneath starts to throw up liquid to the bottom of the plate above.
Although this is not a dangerous situation, it will decrease the efficiency of the plate above, rendering you with a flooded still that don't work as intended.
it can somehow be compared to a flooded packed column. Efficency suffers and eventually it will blow distillate out of your condenser.

Edit: You didn't mention it was a 2" Boka.
If you put that on top of a 3" plated column, you haven't only shot yourself in the foot, you also reloaded and tried the other foot to see if it could be real..! :wtf: :moresarcasm:
lolol

good stuff there dane

reason why im not running is because i built it for a keg and 240v service which i don't currently have in my apartment and i sold the keg to a buddy of mine. plus its so tall . i was hoping building a plate still i can shorten up the overall height of the still . i may cut it half and and try out the boka on my new boiler that im working on finding the pieces to . im aiming for a 6 gallon ss stock pot and bowl combo. basically what i have now just a gallon larger.

i really like the idea of not having to do strip runs. that will mean i can make more in a shorter amount of time.

plus i have this 3 inch copper and i need something to do while the rig is running, so might as build more stillin stuff
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Danespirit »

Well, Rager.. i am affraid you should have keept your keg if you want to go with a 3" plated..
It will suck the 6 gal stockpot dry within no time...!
I can understand your desire to get around stripping runs...belive me..i want it too.. :wink:
If you want to go for a 3"'er...maybe i can help you with a idea i have for a "mini flute"...
It's also in 3", but has only two bubbleplates 100 mm appart from eachother.
Now, my boiler is a milkcan (25 L) and as luck would have it, i sourced a copper stoveplate hide, that fits perfect to the top of the boiler.
So installing that as a bubbleplate, would give me a total of three plates in the still.
The whole still would only be 300 mmm hight (except for the deplag +outlet)...so roughly 400 mm.
It could be a good solution for you too... :idea:
It should work flawless with a single bubblecap on each plate and a central downcomer integrated in the bubblecap..
I can make a drawing for you, if you like. :)
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

dane,

i would love a picture. im open to all ideas . i may just go out an find another keg at this point as well.

good point about the 6 gallon being to small.

thanks so far for your input
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Danespirit »

I'll draw up a quick sketch for you tonight.
I think it will be pretty close to what you are looking for..
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by googe »

If I had access to a lathe I'd do the recesses in the flanges like you mention, people that do it seen very happy with it. If you have centre downcomers you'll need a deflection plate or hood for the top to stop falling reflux by passing the plates, extra work. Having plates 100mm apart would cause entrainment I would imagine. I think the consensus for plate spacing is a square section, 3' column, 3' space, 4' column,4' space etc. Plates+packed section+dephleg+pc would cover everything you want to produce imo.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by pulsetech »

Also you said a 2 inch packed section above the 3 inch reflux / deflag. This won't work. The packed section needs to be above the plates but below the deflag. So 3 inch packed section is needed not 2 inch
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Danespirit »

I made a raw sketch , just to show the idea of it.
The bottom plate, might as well rest on the bottom of the stillhead, but i showed it a bit longer upwards.
From what i read, i figured the space between the plates could be 100 mm in a 3".
Entrainment would be a matter of how much power is thrown at it.
Googe has a lot more experience with plates than i have, so i changed the spaing to 150 mm, which i think will be sufficient..?
The plates will hang in there on a 5 mm stainless steel rod with nuts.
The nut holding each plate is shown in the drawing.The downcomer pipe is simply made with a little "bridge" at the end, and a 5 mm hole in this bridge.
This way the whole plate can be tightened with just two screws.
The topplate will just overflow in the endcap for the downcomer, so no liquid will pass directly into the bubblecap of the plate beneath.
My construction will be all stainless. I haven't made up my mind with the dephlagmator yet.
Maybe it will be a reducer on top of the stillhead with a ferrule to the dephlagmator.
Also sightglasses may be installed for each plate...or at least one for the top plate.
I had this tiny plated in my mind for a long time. Anyway ..the one Corene made for Jimbo, just made me want to go ahead building one.
The work she made with this twoplater, is just beautiful... :D
I think the consensus for plate spacing is a square section, 3' column, 3' space, 4' column,4' space etc.
Googe...i don't know if i understood that correctly... 3" are just 76,2 mm and 4" are 101,60 mm. Are you saying a 3" plated should have a spacing of 76,2 mm..?
That would be less than the 100 mm you meant could cause entrainment. Am i off the track here..?? Think you lost me on that one..
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by googe »

Sorry Dane, Think I lost myself there! Lol, forget I said anything about 100mm lol. I do 120mm for 4" so like you said 100mm would be good for 3". Sorry for the confusion!.! Are you going to have large downcomer caps so the liquid will drop around the cap below?. How are you incorporating the riser in the plate?.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Hound Dog »

Not a plate expert but trying to learn so I can build a better bubble ball or maybe a two plater to go under a column. With the short downcomer and the cup being so close to the bottom of the plate as shown would it cause any entrainment problems with liquid splashing out of the cap up to the bottom of the plate? I had a single bubbler under my last column and I know it got pretty violent at times in there.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by googe »

There won't be any splashing from the downcomer, should just be a nice steady flow.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Hound Dog »

googe wrote:There won't be any splashing from the downcomer, should just be a nice steady flow.
Thanks Googe, this is good to know. I thought you might have to keep it away a bit. :thumbup:
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Danespirit »

googe wrote:Sorry Dane, Think I lost myself there! Lol, forget I said anything about 100mm lol. I do 120mm for 4" so like you said 100mm would be good for 3". Sorry for the confusion!.! Are you going to have large downcomer caps so the liquid will drop around the cap below?. How are you incorporating the riser in the plate?.
Yes Googe, large downcomer caps, so liquid would overflow from their sides to the plate beneath.
The riser is simply a piece of pipe. It depends on if copper is choosen or stainless steel. Soldering if copper, TIG welded if it's stainless
The pipes should be sized ,so the inner diameter of the pipe matches the hole in the plate.
I am thinking around 1" pipe should be ok.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

this is what i got so far,

im going to cut the 3 inch pipe into 4 inch long sections. that would give me 4 plates and a 7 inch delph

more to come
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

a little progress.

the ez flanges are a little ugly but i plan on facing them off on a lathe and cutting an angle to match the tri clamp. ill also hit them wth some emery cloth to clean them up as well.

i got my two inch copper for shotgun condenser tomorrow

more to come .....
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by emptyglass »

So, you like motorbikes, and you like cars...why not mix the two and have a 3 wheeled motorbike....or is it a 3 wheeled car?

Sorry to say, but I'm going to give you the hard love line, read the flute stickys!

If you dont its no skin off my nose, tell me to go jump I dont care, but the only one you are cheating is yourself.

Dont go riding the 3 wheel bike/car into the city without reading the map first, you'll get lost. I appreciate your skills, ambition and your goal, but whoa up a bit. I'm not saying your making a lemon, but you can spend the same time making a lemon as something that kicks goals.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

emptyglass wrote:So, you like motorbikes, and you like cars...why not mix the two and have a 3 wheeled motorbike....or is it a 3 wheeled car?

Sorry to say, but I'm going to give you the hard love line, read the flute stickys!

If you dont its no skin off my nose, tell me to go jump I dont care, but the only one you are cheating is yourself.

Dont go riding the 3 wheel bike/car into the city without reading the map first, you'll get lost. I appreciate your skills, ambition and your goal, but whoa up a bit. I'm not saying your making a lemon, but you can spend the same time making a lemon as something that kicks goals.
yes i like cars and yes i like bikes and last time i checked there where 3 wheeled motorcycles and cars :think:


well i appreciate you commenting and i know you are respected here on the site but it seems like you think im missing something pretty fundamentally wrong. maybe you could point out what is obvious that im doing wrong. i feel like i have an ok idea of what im doing . at the same time i built a pot still from scratch and have done well learning as i go .

so i plan on soldering the 3 inch cap to the top of the bowl. from there ill have 4 plates. i plan on doing perf plates with down comers . the plan is to make the plates fit between the ez flanges. ill be wrapping the flanges and plates with PTFE tape and hopefully when i tighten down the tri clamp ill get a good seal. after the plates ill be making my RC (delphlag) then reducing from 3 inch to 2 inch . then my elbows and a shotgun for my PC.

so where am i off with my planning?

i know its probably a small boiler and i may not use all the plates but i plan on upgrading to a keg someday and im hoping all this should transfer right over. at least thats the plan.

y
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by bentstick »

Rager do belive Empty was thinking you were making a lm vm type column,not a plated column!
Plated columns or the over used " Flute still" are not normaly called reflux columns! IMO yes reflux is used but not the main objective! Cheers
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

bentstick wrote:Rager do belive Empty was thinking you were making a lm vm type column,not a plated column!
Plated columns or the over used " Flute still" are not normaly called reflux columns! IMO yes reflux is used but not the main objective! Cheers
thanks bent jar,

im sure your more than right . to be honest this thread of mine been a little nutty . i mentioned alot of LM with my first boka , plus flute builds. plates plus the fact that i might have even been wrong with with the fact that my "my first reflus stilll" was my boka i built. so its all a little crazy at this poimt.

im stilll learning daily.


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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by Hound Dog »

rager wrote: im stilll learning daily.


cheers,
As well you should be. It's a hobby after all. I mix it up to see what the outcome is sometimes. Good or bad, sometimes you learn what you should be doing, other times you learn what not to do again. Keeps it interesting.
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

emptyglass wrote:
Sorry to say, but I'm going to give you the hard love line, read the flute stickys!

.

holy shit i just finished the flute talk sticky. thank you for motivating me and getting my ass in gear. i "thought" i knew what i was doing , now i know that i know what im doing.

i literally read to my eyes bleed into 4 am in the morning.

my questions will be much more articulate now in what im asking


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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

emptyglass wrote:
Sorry to say, but I'm going to give you the hard love line, read the flute stickys!

.

holy shit i just finished the flute talk sticky. thank you for motivating me and getting my ass in gear. i "thought" i knew what i was doing , now i know that i know what im doing.

i literally read to my eyes bleed into 4 am in the morning.

my questions will be much more articulate now in what im asking


cheers
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by googe »

Looking good mate, you've got a fair but done already, won't be long now :thumbup: .
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Re: ragers first reflux still

Post by rager »

ok so a small update. i got my 3-2 reducer, along with my 2- 1/2 inch reducer. that will be connected to the parrot system after the shotgun condenser.




so i do have a few question and im just looking for reassurance to ensure that my build well be successful

1. im building building a 3 inch by 5 inch delph. how many 1/2inch tubes should i use? 4-5

2. similar question just will the shotgun PC . it will be a 2inch jacket . how many 1/2 tubes should i put it to potentionally knock down a keg still with a 5500 element. i wont be usuing one now but it will be getting up graded someday. im also aiming for keeping the weight down on this build so im trying to keep everyhting as small as i need to be but fulfill my needs now and when i upgrade.

so 2 inch tube + x amount of 1/2 tubes + length would be ??? just never got a real good answer answer at what the the right size shotgun i would need for this build


plates

ive got a pretty good understandiing with what im going to do with them. ill have up to 5 plates. right now have got some .032 thick plates i was going to use. its material i have laying around and would like to use .i think it might be on the thinner side but part of me thinks that enough to do what i need to do in my rig

so anyone see any concerns using that thickness for the plates?

last thought.

im thinking i can get away with 1/2 downcomers ?

and im thinking 1/2 an inch off the top the plate?


this is where im focused know so anyone with any input on this part please let me know what you think

thanks, cheers. btw thats my boka im about to hack apart for this build.
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