FLUTE TALK

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby googe » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:17 pm

I've always just used 3 plates Wi Th a 500mm section wtd, on my split still o had I could run at around 5lph. Getting the lava rattling in the column seemed to be the sweet spot, can hear it when you put your ear to the column. A packed section with plates under runs real nice imo. I'd do one run for some flavour and wines for nuet.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby WTD » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:56 pm

I guess the real thing im after is speed and compression without smearing, what can run faster (forgetting about packing stripping flavour) plates or packed section+plates?

i can always strip through a few plates and water the wines to 40% and then run through the 10p+thumper for my vodka but its the compression of heads hearts and tails im after with speed. i dont mind a subtle hint of something in my vodka if its nice.

Or perhaps i could strip with 4.8kw through 10 plates+thumper (charged thumper to add volume) and then water this down to do a low wines spirit run so then it will be through 20 plates total plus thumper twice. I would assume with the thumper it will hold high abv still. The RC is 9*3/4" tubes at 150mm long so it should be up to the task.

what do others think of this?
4" 4 plate flute and an 8" glass thumper almost finishedCan be seen Here >> viewtopic.php?f=17&t=62291&p=7420477#p7420477
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Hound Dog » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:40 pm

WTD wrote:Or perhaps i could strip with 4.8kw through 10 plates+thumper (charged thumper to add volume) and then water this down to do a low wines spirit run so then it will be through 20 plates total plus thumper twice.

what do others think of this?

Running it through 10 plates twice is not the same as 20 plates......
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby cranky » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:01 pm

My opinion tends to get the Aus & NZ people riled up for some reason but I will tell you anyway. If you want neutral from a home rig you are best off with a packed column or at least a packed section. Flutes are for flavor, packed sections are better at removing the flavor whether it is on top of a set of plates or a stand alone fully packed CM. It all depends on how neutral you want it.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby WTD » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:03 pm

cool, so i have 2 lengths of 4" i can use. I have a length at 400mm that is good so i can make that a packed section and i think the other length i have i can make 3 plate sections out of it before i get to the warped end. Maybe ill just go 7 plates and 400mm packed section over thumper. Ill do this and see how i like it. guess i can always add to it later
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Antler24 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:17 am

WTD wrote:I guess the real thing im after is speed and compression without smearing, what can run faster (forgetting about packing stripping flavour) plates or packed section+plates?

i can always strip through a few plates and water the wines to 40% and then run through the 10p+thumper for my vodka but its the compression of heads hearts and tails im after with speed. i dont mind a subtle hint of something in my vodka if its nice.

Or perhaps i could strip with 4.8kw through 10 plates+thumper (charged thumper to add volume) and then water this down to do a low wines spirit run so then it will be through 20 plates total plus thumper twice. I would assume with the thumper it will hold high abv still. The RC is 9*3/4" tubes at 150mm long so it should be up to the task.

what do others think of this?


If you run wash in the thumper you will be adding flavour back to it. I assume with 10 plates your after a neutral so having wash in the thumper won't be a good thing for a nuetral
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby WTD » Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:01 pm

Antler24 wrote:
WTD wrote:I guess the real thing im after is speed and compression without smearing, what can run faster (forgetting about packing stripping flavour) plates or packed section+plates?

i can always strip through a few plates and water the wines to 40% and then run through the 10p+thumper for my vodka but its the compression of heads hearts and tails im after with speed. i dont mind a subtle hint of something in my vodka if its nice.

Or perhaps i could strip with 4.8kw through 10 plates+thumper (charged thumper to add volume) and then water this down to do a low wines spirit run so then it will be through 20 plates total plus thumper twice. I would assume with the thumper it will hold high abv still. The RC is 9*3/4" tubes at 150mm long so it should be up to the task.

what do others think of this?


If you run wash in the thumper you will be adding flavour back to it. I assume with 10 plates your after a neutral so having wash in the thumper won't be a good thing for a nuetral

this is true if i was collecting right away but i wont be. once the column is loaded and reflux has made its way back to the thumper i will hold full reflux for at least 30-60 minutes and all the wash/flavour will be refluxed back into the boiler.

the result will be distillate of high proof of around 5-10L. It will be kind of like high wines and the boiler will start with low wines so it will be probably around 80% ABV in the thumper after refluxing for a while (and all the wash in the thumper will have been pushed back to the boiler) so then i was thinking 10 plates wont have to work hard if they start with a high ABV of 80% in the beginning.

I figure if i go a nice steady speed like this it should work. if i want flavour ill probably go thumper and 2 or 3 plates on top
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby SouthTexasShine » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:36 pm

Thoughts on Gin basket placement? I have built a flute using 4 inch copper pipe and tri-clamp fittings it is 100% modular. Just for grins I have built five perforated plates and I'm in the process of building valve plates and bubblers, I will also have a four-inch u to bring it back down to the shotgun condenser, I plan on running with a 24 inch packed section when making neutrals. Since all the pipe will be 4 inches until after the shotgun, with making Jen should I place the gym basket above the deflag, or after the you on top of the shotgun?
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby still_stirrin » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:34 pm

SouthTexasShine wrote:...Since all the pipe will be 4 inches until after the shotgun, with making Jen should I place the gym basket above the deflag, or after the you on top of the shotgun?

Well, since you're trying to make a Jen....the best place for the gym basket is in the vapor path.

If you put the gym basket below the reflux condenser, it would be refluxing through your botanicals. So, obviously it (the gym basket) would go after (above) the deflag.

If you look at the Carter head (gin basket), it has a vapor inlet on the side of the botanical basket with the vapor rising through the basket and exiting out of another side port. The inlet port is lower on the basket and the outlet port is higher on the basket.

But if you're just building a simple basket chamber it would be placed in the vapor path above the deflag and below your return bend (on the column side). The vapor would flow up through the deflag, continue up through the basket, and pass over to the product condenser (shotgun).
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby SouthTexasShine » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:56 pm

Let's me rephrase, it will be before the shotgun either way, just before or after the U return. So the vapors are either pushing up or pushing down. Pushing up less/no chance of clogging, but a chance of the flavor contaiminating the deflag and trays. Pushing down, chance of packing the botanicals, only the shotgun sees the flavors. I got about 30 foot of scrap 4" copper for 2 dollars a pound, including two 4" 90s, so after removing all the old solder I built a return for the top of the column. I will not reduce to 3/4 for my output till after the shotgun.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby rgreen2002 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:48 pm

I have many times said before I wish I had known I was gonna love doing this from the start. Then I would not have spent money on so many other things to get to where I am now. I have to say that I have had this flute for several months now and as I am just getting the hang of running her and she does nothing but show love! The likker I have made in one pass is fantastic and I cannot praise the design enough. It is also a very versatile little machine in that I have made good whisky, and great bourbon with it so far. Today I made a neutral: some birdwatchers I ran to about 95%.

I am waiting for a 12" SS T for the column but I have the weekend time so I said WFT... I decided to pull a plate and use that section as a packed column:
Pepper.jpg
Bubble caps out to hold packing in


I placed this right under the dephleg as recommended many times here:

in place.jpg
My packed Flute


Ran her just like always except instead of getting 85-90% ABV:
proof.jpg
That's high livin' there


Take 2 points off for temp.

If I had known she was going to be this good I would have bought her from the start!
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Scribbler » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Anyone know what the effect of running a pot still with one, two, or three bubble plates - but NO dephleg would be? Until I complete my dephleg, is there any reason I should avoid running it with the column sections that I DO have complete?

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby thecroweater » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:06 pm

Scribbler wrote:Anyone know what the effect of running a pot still with one, two, or three bubble plates - but NO dephleg would be? Until I complete my dephleg, is there any reason I should avoid running it with the column sections that I DO have complete?

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Scribbler » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:08 pm

Cool. That's about what I figured... but never hurts to check.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Badmotivator » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:25 pm

Scribbler wrote:Anyone know what the effect of running a pot still with one, two, or three bubble plates - but NO dephleg would be? Until I complete my dephleg, is there any reason I should avoid running it with the column sections that I DO have complete?


Not from direct experience, but I'll hazard a guess. Theoretical plates a) increase the fores ABV by a lot, b) skew the heads a bit earlier in the run, c) increase the body of the run's ABV by a fair amount d) delay the tails some and e) make the ABV fall off more steeply at the end of the run.

With three bubble plates but no active reflux you will likely see at least some small measure of those "plate effects". Passive reflux alone will give you some slight "plate effect". I will guess that your plates probably won't fill or stay filled (which would increase the degree to which you get those "plate effects") but I'm not sure about that, since passive reflux may under some conditions be sufficient to keep them full. If the room is cool and drafty and the plates don't have any drainage except the downcomer you might get them to stay full.

I can't think of any reason not to try it. Hope that helps.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby cranky » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:36 am

I ran my flute a few weeks ago without reflux and my results were pretty much what Badmotivator said, except perhaps the tails. I am currently running 3 sieve plates. The tails were much more drawn out, probably because by the time it got to that point everything was pretty warmed up so there was less passive reflux. My ABV was higher than a regular single pot run.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Fart Vader » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:16 am

Well, I'm late to the party but I'm catching up.
Currently on page 26 of the 58 pages of this thread. What a marathon!

I've been asking myself if you folks were loading low wines or beer right off fermentation.
The answer was on page 26. Pretty crazy that this ingenious little device can perform such "Magic".

I gotta have one!

... But first, I must go back to page 26 and continue my education.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby lowpull » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:26 pm

I am going to ask a question that I havent seen (at least I havent seen it). What decisions are made from looking at the sight glasses on each plate. Also do the flutes scale linearly Or do they scale by surface area?. ( I have a 6ft section of 4.5 inch ss thin wall pipe).
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby cranky » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:29 am

lowpull wrote:I am going to ask a question that I havent seen (at least I havent seen it). What decisions are made from looking at the sight glasses on each plate. Also do the flutes scale linearly Or do they scale by surface area?. ( I have a 6ft section of 4.5 inch ss thin wall pipe).

I have to note that my flute isn't exactly the standard design most people make but I make power input adjustments based on what I'm seeing. Too much power and I can load the top plate up so 14 inches of liquid is sitting on top with almost nothing on the other plates, not enough power and the plates won't hold much liquid at all. I also tend to readjust reflux as the bottom plate begins to dry up indicating the onset of tails. On some things I actually like to draw the tails out a bit and others I compress the hell out of them and being able to see inside lets me make necessary adjustments quickly. I don't think I have an answer to your other question.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby lowpull » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:57 pm

Thanks for the reply, that brings some things into clarity for me.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby frost021 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:14 pm

lowpull wrote:I am going to ask a question that I havent seen (at least I havent seen it). What decisions are made from looking at the sight glasses on each plate. Also do the flutes scale linearly Or do they scale by surface area?. ( I have a 6ft section of 4.5 inch ss thin wall pipe).

I'm also fairly new with running a flute myself and ran mine about a dozen or so times now and have read all 58 pages many times and what I'm gathering is every system is different and it's best to get to know your own machine...I've alway ran with 4 ,4"plates and am happy with the rums that I've been doing and none of the plates have been in equilibrium but being said I'm getting into all grains now and may have to see how things taste before adjusting number of plates ect...Happy Stilling :)
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby spiff » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:42 am

IMO, the sight glasses are indispensable. I can say that after seeing weird things that my plates do..I have seen them stack from top down, bottom up, and even sometimes in the middle. Also if you ever get 2 plates flooded at the same time they vapor lock and take forever to drain. If you didn't have sight glasses you would never know how long its taking for them to drain. Then of course there is the flood prevention in the first place.. being able to modulate power and reflux to keep the plates at a perfect level. I couldn't imaging trying to learn that with out the visual feedback, especially on a something like a 6 plater.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby WIski » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:31 pm

Spiff,

+1 I totally agree..... :thumbup:
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby spiff » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:08 am

cranky wrote:
thecroweater wrote:Well Cranky on that we disagree and not by a bit, plate rectified spirit feed to a packed section makes an excellent neutral. That is to say it produces a far superior product in a fraction of the time. A better analogy might be a nail gun compared with ya ye ole reflux hammer, call it cheating if ya like but a growing number of commercial ginger makers are taking this path here :thumbup:

Far superior to what?
If I wanted to do it in one run I'm sure my CM would do it every bit as fast as a flute with packed section. I don't like to screw around only to get a few bottles of neutral, I like getting 16 drinkable bottles in a single run. 6-7 hours from switch on to switch off is plenty fast for me, any faster and I couldn't keep up. I personally think of the CM as the nail gun and the flute as the hammer if you want that analogy. And we can certainly agree to disagree on this one, as I said it is my own opinion your welcome to believe whatever you want.


My own experience was that a 6 plate flute created a neutral much better than a packed column.
I went from this: https://milehidistilling.com/product/8- ... ack-still/
to this: https://milehidistilling.com/product/co ... -sections/
with an extra foot of packed section on top and its no contest on neutral quality. This might be bad example though.. going from 2in to 4in..ect.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby cranky » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:00 pm

spiff wrote:
cranky wrote:
thecroweater wrote:Well Cranky on that we disagree and not by a bit, plate rectified spirit feed to a packed section makes an excellent neutral. That is to say it produces a far superior product in a fraction of the time. A better analogy might be a nail gun compared with ya ye ole reflux hammer, call it cheating if ya like but a growing number of commercial ginger makers are taking this path here :thumbup:

Far superior to what?
If I wanted to do it in one run I'm sure my CM would do it every bit as fast as a flute with packed section. I don't like to screw around only to get a few bottles of neutral, I like getting 16 drinkable bottles in a single run. 6-7 hours from switch on to switch off is plenty fast for me, any faster and I couldn't keep up. I personally think of the CM as the nail gun and the flute as the hammer if you want that analogy. And we can certainly agree to disagree on this one, as I said it is my own opinion your welcome to believe whatever you want.


My own experience was that a 6 plate flute created a neutral much better than a packed column.
I went from this: https://milehidistilling.com/product/8- ... ack-still/
to this: https://milehidistilling.com/product/co ... -sections/
with an extra foot of packed section on top and its no contest on neutral quality. This might be bad example though.. going from 2in to 4in..ect.

I gotta say you aren't comparing equal setups. Replace those 6 plates plus packed section with an equal length and diameter packed section with the same dephleg and get back to me. Of course everybody has their own opinion of what they want so it's probably pointless to try to argue.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby bentstick » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:52 pm

4" 4 perf plates,23" of 4'' packed with lava rock broke down to 3/8" or smaller,12 gals Rice AG ferment at 10% abv, 2 gals of Rice AG ferment strip from 92-39 abv,ran at 1.4 liters a hr! Result 6.2 liter of 95.3 abv absolutely tasteless Neutral, Mind you not smell less,smells sweet,and has a very smooth mouth feel so all that want to go this way cheers to you and dont stop trying, and when it comes to whisky I pull the packed section and rock on brother rock on! IT IS POSSIBLE
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby cranky » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:18 pm

Seems like a lot of people get all offended when I say the flute isn't the best tool for a neutral and love to argue this with me but none of them are actually willing to try what I suggest, which is compare apples to apples. Do exactly the same wash, add the packed section on top of the flute with one, and do another with a fully packed section the length of the plated section plus packed section and see which one is actually more neutral. I'm not saying you can't make an acceptable vodka from a flute with a packed section, I'm just saying I feel why bother when it is just as easy to swap out the whole column with a packed one as it is to try to use the flute to do what a full packed column does better.

Besides rice is practically a neutral on a single run through a pot still, That's why URRV is called a vodka right in the name.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby bentstick » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:46 pm

Who is arguing and offended? sure is hell ain't me,I stated facts from a run I just did,and giving others a chance to see what is possible!

Rice was picked for its its clean ferment,and was not intended to be a Vodka,whisky or anything else but a "NEUTRAL" from the beginning and it was neutral....

Almost Neutral out a pot still?

It was not a URRV! No sugar added and no wine yeast used,dont know what the get on is all about?

I was posting in a "Flute Talk" thread not a LM,VM or CCVM thread and seems someone got a lil defensive!!!

There are others that will argue what is best PPPFFFTTT not me I do what I do.....
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby cranky » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:30 am

bentstick wrote:Who is arguing and offended? sure is hell ain't me,I stated facts from a run I just did,and giving others a chance to see what is possible!

Rice was picked for its its clean ferment,and was not intended to be a Vodka,whisky or anything else but a "NEUTRAL" from the beginning and it was neutral....

Almost Neutral out a pot still?

It was not a URRV! No sugar added and no wine yeast used,dont know what the get on is all about?

I was posting in a "Flute Talk" thread not a LM,VM or CCVM thread and seems someone got a lil defensive!!!

There are others that will argue what is best PPPFFFTTT not me I do what I do.....

I guess I owe you an apology then :oops:

I suppose that since it has been a year to the day since I made a statement that I feel a dedicated packed column is better for neutral and people are still trying to argue the point then your post came immediately after just such a post I interpreted your post as you were also jumping on the bandwagon and getting offended.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby WIski » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:22 am

Being this is a Flute thread I imagine most of the conversation is geared to bolt on accessories to broaden the usefulness of the plated still. I have not tried a flavor free product yet, but plan on adding a section (think modular) of SPP on top of the plates (something I already have) just because it is so damn easy and many knowledgeable members here have proven it works a treat. We don't need to argue who's girl friend is prettier. They all will get you there. :eugeek:
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