Neutral spirit - plates vs. packing pros question

[skow69]

Damit! I'd really like to read the rest of that article on helical packing. But not $40.00 worth.

I think Odin was referring to a random packing of his own design, similar to SPP.

[Refluxed]

similar to SPP

heh, I have NFI what SPP stands for

There is enough info on that page to build the coil though

[Danespirit]

While considerably more expensive again, wouldn't 904L be better?

Compared to 316L, it has around half the carbon and sulfur, more chromium and silicon, about twice as much nickel and molybdenum, and a couple of percent copper.

It is less prone to pitting and crevice corrosion than 316L, and is used in harsh chemical process environments. Stove flues operate in a pretty harsh environment, all the hot gasses and particulates from whatever is burning. It is a pretty uncommon alloy, due to cost. Flues are very cheap though. Rolex use it for their watches.

Oh, whichever type, always get the L version (low carbon). Chromium carbide forms during welding, depleting the chromium content of the alloy lattice, leaving the welded area prone to corrosion. Less carbon means less carbide can form. 904 only comes in L.

I personally have no motivation to make anything other than pure neutral spirit. I've never actually enjoyed any of the characteristic flavours of alcoholic drinks, I prefer the base flavour of the mixer (typically a good quality juice) not to be adulterated.

But I don't actually drink much. 70% EtOH is an extremely versatile solvent, with all kinds of hygiene, maintenance, and scientific uses. I can't buy rectified spirit (95% ABV) anymore, and lab supply places charge through the nose. Not exactly the price that would let me clean my windows, and I can't stand the smell of denatured - or the taste if I'm unfortunate to get some on my fingers. About the only thing I haven't yet used it for is fuel. But with excise here at $75 a litre, that is just like burning money.

Oh yes, indeed it would.
However, the reason I mentioned 304 and 316 (also know as "marine grade"), is the better accessibility for non-professionals.
Most people wouldn't have access to that kind of pro materials, let alone have gear and knowledge to weld them properly.
316 already have a high concentration of Cr, Ni and Mo. The high amount of Cr and Ni, gives it excellent corrosion resistance (which is exactly what we want for our equipment).
304 is fine too, 304L has better properties as of its greater immunity to intergranular corrosion. Both types are variants of the very common 18/8 SS, used for kitchenware and applications (18% Cr, 8% Ni).
Speaking of corrosion..that is what you mentioned regarding welding these materials. It's an unavoidable fact, due to the alloys depleting from the steel.
Inexperienced welders often make the mistake to apply too much heat, which contributes to above mentioned depleting.

If you go for the product as a solvent/fuel, you can get away with much higher takeoff rates, cause you don't have to worry about smearing.
Taking foreshots would also be a waste of time...just fire her up and boil the hell out of the charge.Keep watching for the watery tails, though.

[Danespirit]

similar to SPP

heh, I have NFI what SPP stands for

There is enough info on that page to build the coil though

It stands for " Spiral Prismatic Packing".

[skow69]

There is plenty of info on the boards, but you do have to invest the effort to do a search.

[skow69]

There is enough info on that page to build the coil though

Give 'er a shot. I'm afraid you'll find that copper tubing isn't as cooperative as his helices.

[Refluxed]

If you go for the product as a solvent/fuel, you can get away with much higher takeoff rates, cause you don't have to worry about smearing.

Depends on if the solvent is supposed to be ingested after the solute is dissolved in it

What is significantly different (in terms of difficulty) about welding 904L vs. 316L? I'm not a welder, or chemist, my limited reading of the manufacturers' datasheets says it can be welded using the same methods as other stainless steels. One states that 904L is less prone to elemental redistribution in the lattice when welding, so doesn't require annealing afterwards in many instances where 316L would.

Only reason I know about 904L is because I saw that internal flues are made of it, which I found when trying to find Australian suppliers of stainless steel pipes. Not much chance I will use them though - as pointed out to me, they aren't particularly practical for attaching flanges. I have no clue about availability of 904L in sanitary pipe/couplings locally.

Is induction brazing good (from a lattice integrity point of view) for stainless steels? Being able to control the heat very evenly and precisely, whilst not blasting burning gasses all over the area would seem helpful

[Refluxed]

There is plenty of info on the boards, but you do have to invest the effort to do a search.

Is that in reference to me asking what SPP is?

If so, I'm just tongue-in-cheek objecting to the way abbreviations are commonly used. Unless it is a common acronym like LASER or NATO, such abbreviations should be spelled out fully preceding initial usage when talking to the uninitiated

Give 'er a shot. I'm afraid you'll find that copper tubing isn't as cooperative as his helices.

Which is why I wouldn't use copper tubing in place of his helices! If for some reason I did want to use tubing, I would go with 6mm corrugated stainless steel type. But tube is a much different structure

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

There is plenty of info on the boards, but you do have to invest the effort to do a search.

Jesus skow. You got to watch out taking like this now. This is 2017, things aren't like they were in the golden days of HD. Now you have to walk people through the process for 6 pages, and then stick around long enough to do it again for the 32,721st member.

Man, get with the times dude Admin edit There is no need for this type posting . If you cant help .Shut up and leave it be .

[Bushman]

SPP is a very common abbreviation. That is why we have a glossary of terms in the New Distiller Reading Lounge. Not only is it defined but there is a link to an image showing what it looks like.
http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... 46&t=58100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[skow69]

Is that in reference to me asking what SPP is?

If so, I'm just tongue-in-cheek objecting to the way abbreviations are commonly used. Unless it is a common acronym like LASER or NATO, such abbreviations should be spelled out fully preceding initial usage when talking to the uninitiated

Point taken. I guess for me, SPP is as common as LM (liquid management) or VM (vapor management). Every discipline has its own peculiar terminology that must be agreed upon before we can have meaningful communication. We should have a glossary here someplace.... There it is. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=58100. That should help.

There is enough info on that page to build the coil though

Give 'er a shot. I'm afraid you'll find that copper tubing isn't as cooperative as his helices.

Which is why I wouldn't use copper tubing in place of his helices! If for some reason I did want to use tubing, I would go with 6mm corrugated stainless steel type. But tube is a much different structure

I see. When I read the line in blue above, I thought you were referring to building a reflux condenser (RC) coil. I now see you were either talking about coiling the wire into helices, or installing the helices as a coil in the column. Oops, there's that communication thing again. Nothing we can't overcome, I'm sure.

Cheers

[skow69]

There is plenty of info on the boards, but you do have to invest the effort to do a search.

Jesus skow. You got to watch out taking like this now. This is 2017, things aren't like they were in the golden days of HD. Now you have to walk people through the process for 6 pages, and then stick around long enough to do it again for the 32,721st member.

Man, get with the times dude

Know what? I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I think I actually miss Rad.

[Refluxed]

Common in terms of a very niche area of interest.

I did say it was tongue in cheek! I was happy skow answered. I even opened with a laugh, and used an emoticon in my original post to reinforce it - geez...

Yes, there is a glossary, and myriad other information to digest. But it is a pet peeve I have in all communication, not just this instance, and a rule I try to adhere by. It is obvious from my opening post, that I have been doing reading before asking questions.

there's that communication thing again. Nothing we can't overcome, I'm sure

Indeed, cheers for understanding. As a newcomer, I am definitely guilty of mixing up my lingo.

Anyway, I still don't know what helicons are (apart from low frequency electromagnetic waves in plasma). But they are different to SPP, and not in the glossary. My only guess at this point is that they might be conical spirals.

[Danespirit]

If you go for the product as a solvent/fuel, you can get away with much higher takeoff rates, cause you don't have to worry about smearing.

Depends on if the solvent is supposed to be ingested after the solute is dissolved in it

What is significantly different (in terms of difficulty) about welding 904L vs. 316L? I'm not a welder, or chemist, my limited reading of the manufacturers' datasheets says it can be welded using the same methods as other stainless steels. One states that 904L is less prone to elemental redistribution in the lattice when welding, so doesn't require annealing afterwards in many instances where 316L would.

Only reason I know about 904L is because I saw that internal flues are made of it, which I found when trying to find Australian suppliers of stainless steel pipes. Not much chance I will use them though - as pointed out to me, they aren't particularly practical for attaching flanges. I have no clue about availability of 904L in sanitary pipe/couplings locally.

Is induction brazing good (from a lattice integrity point of view) for stainless steels? Being able to control the heat very evenly and precisely, whilst not blasting burning gasses all over the area would seem helpful

Well, dissolve licorice in 40% ABV neutral...it looks like old motor oil, but the taste is a little better..

I haven't dwelled by the thoughts about the chemical composition of 904L and I'm not a chemist nor a metallurgist.
What I have done is a lot of welding and metalwork (professional).
Unless you have 904 at hand, it's hardly worth the effort and $$ to get some.
304 or even better 316, is the way to go.
You CAN solder or braze stainless...BUT..the aforementioned problems with too much heat will become very clear.
Also, stainless, regardless of what alloy is prone to warping when heat is applied.
So the more heat...the more trouble.
Stick with TIG welding it together, use purging gas where it's needed and last but not least tack weld a lot with small distances to keep everything in the place it's supposed to be.
I'd say double the amount of tack welds compared to mild steel, and half the distances between them.
Obviously, purging gas would be a waste on the things inside a dephlegmator, as the only fluid in contact with the welds is the cooling water.
Everywhere else, where the vapor or product touches the metal, purging gas should be used.
Clean everything thoroughly and do the mandatory cleaning run procedure as described in the novice section.

[Refluxed]

You CAN solder or braze stainless...BUT..the aforementioned problems with too much heat will become very clear.

The local manufacturers of corrugated stainless steel tube braze the fittings on, but warned that being so thin, it is a quite skillful job, and what comprises the major cost of their hoses. As you pointed out, the ends of the coil only come in contact with the coolant, so I was thinking of using an expanding polyurethane construction adhesive (Sika Techgrip) along with some aggregate to glue a fitting inside the tube, and tie/clamp it from the outside before it sets. Once set, PU has no melting point, is quite rigid provided foaming is minimised (what the aggregate is for), and has good chemical resistance. As for welding the bigger sections, I think it would be better that I pay someone for that. Warped flanges would be annoying. I have a lathe, but nothing near the size that would let me face a flange on the end of a pipe.

I'm starting to wonder now about where in my still I should have some copper to help remove dimethyl trisulphide from the product. I've only looked at one study so far that examined copper placement in stainless steel stills vs. full copper stills: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0450.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Danespirit]

Thanks for sharing, it's a keeper..!
A stainless still, will most certainly benefit from copper somewhere in the vapor/product path.
Most of my equipment is stainless, but I have some copper in the product path. There is a thread in here somewhere, where it is debated if the copper should be in the vapor path or just somewhere in the product path.
The picture below shows my bubble plate on my "Gin still", a smaller version of it is installed on top of my milk can boiler.
I hardly run without it, besides stripping a mash that is prone to foaming like a banana mash. Damned..! I had a major puke on the first attempt.
Also, I made an extension pipe on my stainless Liebig out of 15 mm copper.
The bigger Liebig is this one: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=59501
From what I read, it's my belief that copper is a "have to be there option".
My personal experience is that copper plays a major part when we talk spirits like Brandy. One would not be able to produce a similar product of high quality, without any copper in the still.
It's evident, that copper binds a lot of unwanted components before they can draw over in the finished product.

Bubble plate, sieve style.

[Danespirit]

As for the technical stuff you mentioned, it's ok to construct still parts with components and material that are known to be reliable.
However, one has to bear the safety aspect in mind, regarding the product path.
No product should be in touch with other things as Copper, stainless and PTFE.
Not knowing how big you plan to build, but it is most certainly a good idea to let a professional weld the flanges and ferrules on your equipment.
Warping can't be avoided, but it can be limited by using the correct method of welding.
I use to face off my ferrules with some 800 grid (later 1500), emery cloth for wet grinding.
A level surface and 8 like moving of the ferrule to grind, ensures it is totally even polished on the whole surface.

[LWTCS]

Re: The communication thing.

The giant communication companies struggle to communicate effectively every day and they have money to do it with. It's their business to communicate and yet they often don't do such a great job.

HD community is doing ok with its historically limited resources.

[emptyglass]

Hi emptyglass

Yeah, I want as clean and flavourless as I can get. I have a couple of questions for you:

When you say there are slower, more dedicated options, what kind of things are you talking about?

I had no luck finding "sanitary spools" in Australia, but then I looked up the clamp fitting specification, ISO 2853. That gave me a list of other names for the tri-clamps, which I haven't got around to looking at properly yet:

Tri-clamp fitting
Tri-clover fitting
S-clamp fitting
Sanitary fitting
3A pipe fitting

I notice you are an Australian fabricator (I'm in NSW) - when you build stainless steel columns, do you buy the spools pre-made, or do you weld on flanges/ferrules as you need them? I've got no idea how one goes about polishing up the inside of narrow pipe after welding the fittings?

What I would really like for the column is a fused quartz tube, so I can see what's going on inside, and experiment with packing/plate designs. But I realise I won't get much help with that kind of setup here, due to safety concerns around glass. So to start with, I'm just thinking a long SS spool reflux column, with a short SS spool boko head. I can add more sophisticated heads (and plates) for it as I go along.

By other dedicated options, I mean things like boka's, nixon/stone, etc. While I have seen slant plate stills (boka's) that can come close to what a plated column can make rate wise, they are still a one trick pony.

I might add a note that even though SD stuff is welding of SS spools from china, they have progressed to copper, as they have learnt that that is what the market wants, despite the attempts of "fake news", they are now making some nice stuff.
The SPP stuff has some runs on the board for production of neutral/vodka, but as far as I know it still struggles to perform in large diameter (3" plus) columns. A fact not publicly baked up by the makers...yet. And them stills still struggle to make brown spirits , so I'm tole. I could be wrong.

Tri-clamp and Tri-clover are much the same thing. Tri clover is the Std, tri clamp refers to the clamps used in that std. Since we use them a lot, its become a generic term.
They also happen to comply with "sanitary" standards, so sometimes referred to as "sanitary clamps".
This means that milk fittings originally designed for use in diaries, often made in China, are now used as stills.
S clamps are another standard, like DIN fittings.
3A refers to the type of nut used (aka, wing nut, wing bolt, etc, )

I am an Australian Fabricator, in Victoria. I make stills with pressed copper flanges that comply with triclover parts. the "spools" we make are all copper and comply to tricover standards. We have a few other tricks too.

I've tasted some pretty good stuff from SS stills, but tasted even better stuff from copper ones.

[Odin]

Disagree totally with the "flutes are so great for neutral"-remarks" and "LM/Boka is a one trick pony" and I speak from experience. A well designed Boka or LM can do any spirits. Open her up and you have a potstill, close the valve and you create more redistillations. So much more versatility than fixed plates ... Also, plates that hold fixed liquid baths, like bubble caps contrary to perf plates, act like tails traps. The bottom plates do. These systems are originally designed as fruit brandy stills. A century and a half ago. Let's not forget that. And fruity tastes are found in late heads, not in early tails smearing. Plates, especially bubble caps, are not good at the early tails smearing that's essential to great heavy rum and scottish single malt whisky. In my opinion it's the 1 1/2 century old, Southern German, yes fruit brandy country plate still that's a one trick pony. Fruit brandy. Or whiskey as Bourbon gets to be more and more: fruits and late heads smearing oriented. Quick to age out, but one dimensional.

I'll probably get a lot of shit thrown my way for speaking out and trampling those who favor plates. But as not just mine but also Mash Rookie's research found out: if you go taste full and want to make awesome whiskey or rum, packing trumps plates. I'd add: potstills that favor high vapor speeds trump slow, antiquated, too wide column designs. Too wide as in: "let's dial back vapor speeds to be able to harvest the more volatile late heads / fruity notes that make great fruit brandy. There is a reason Scottish goose necks are shaped the way they are ... slim rather than wide and without plates. Why? Because the high associated vapor speeds help carry over the early tails that people making great whisky and rum look for and have the patience of waiting for.

And that's my contribution to another discussion that seems to be based on feeling and "lets sell more flutes" rather than science. Bubble cap plated stills are for fruit brandy. Mash Rookie knew it, I know it. I hope others will see LM as what it really is: a very precise way (just air pressure as a variable) to control reflux and redistillations. Where in CM, you need to control water flow and pressure, ambient temps, water temp as well. A hassle. "But CM is so good at controling tails ..!" Another misconception. No, it isn't the reflux management system that controls what tastes come over. That's the fixed liquid baths in the plated columns: they prevent early tails smearing, since early tails has no benefit to fruit brandy. It has nothing to do with the reflux management system itsself.

Again, having had "I hate you because I like my rig" mails: been there before. Miss the likes of Priarie and Mash to stir things up in such a way that the science advanced. Long time since that happened on HD unfortunately. It's all more of the same now, with even great contributors like Cranky feeling they enter a battle any time they say anything besides "flutes are great".

To those that say: "You talk favorable about LM, because you build LM's, Odin!", I say: "Yes, and I have 50 people working for me building them. If I feel that at any moment there is a better way to build stills, taste rich (potstill) or neutral (LM with packed column), I will put it out there within 3 months. The reason I don't is that LM rules. More control over reflux and cuts and over purity vs. taste. The whole waver from pot distilling to 40 plus redistillations in one machine. Nothing else gives that versatility. Also: I dont sell to homedistillers. I don't have a pony in the race. But the pony's that I do have for sure ain't one tricksters.

And for those saying that with 6 plates you can make such great neutral. BS! Chemical analysis shows that heads and tails can be compressed up to 40 redistillations. More does only slow things down. Less redistillations means you compromize. And that's the way it is. Not a bad thing, just not optimal. Unless you want to make fruit brandy.

It's time people learned that CM, LM or VM are just reflux management systems. That's all. It's the column (shape, size, function) that helps harvest certain tastes. Not the reflux management system! And that also means that the reflux management system should be chosen based on things like ease of build and (especially) the ease of control. LM trumps CM there always. Even if you put plates under an LM column. "Yeah, but with 2 inch that does not work very well!" Who said that if you need 4 inch for a flute, you can't do 4 inch for a LM? Misconception based on people listening to what others state, instead of home distillers starting to think for themselves.

Please realize as well that a 4 inch flute isn't 4 inch. It is much, much less! Do the math. How much of the 4 inch is made available for gasses to rise up? If 40% (example), this means that you actually run closer to 2 inch. It also explains why a 4 inch LM packed column outproduces a 4 inch flute every time. Given any product. In fact, even my older generation 2 inchers outproduced 4 inch flutes. "Yes but quality ..." Yeah, I just did a comparison of my 2000 liter LM still against a German plated still of the same size that costed 10 times more. Results? 250 bottles of vodka instead of 220. Better taste (independent taste pannel), and (here it comes!) variable heating costs to do a run were only EUR 48,- instead of EUR 650,-.

There is something to say in favor of technological advancement. I feel that this last sentence defined HD once. But it has been a long time since. Sorry to see that. I miss it. If there is still anyone out there interested in reclaiming our position as innovation leaders, let me know and let's set up a new thread called "innovations". If not, well, good luck to all. I wish HD the best. But it is becoming "more of the same" rather than "more of something new". Repetitive. Serves it's goal too, but innovators like Bokakob and Andy and Mash Rookie would look down on us and wonder where we went astray.

Regards, Odin.

[Bushman]

This is basically the conclusion Mash Rookie and I came to when we ran his plated column side by side with my packed column. Plates have an advantage when your column is 6" diameter or greater as the weight on packing especially mesh has a tendency to compress.

I designed a special helicon column packing to overcome that, Bushman. We can now take columns up to 10 inches and have them outperform anything. My 5 inch packed column (with a 10x10 mm variety of helicon column packing) is 115 centimeters high (packed part), can handle 18 kW and produces around 20 liters of >190 proof per hour. I also have a 3 inch diameter column that currently does 4 liters per hour. With a new 7.5 kW heater and new PLC I expect that to go to around 7 liters per hour soon.

When comparing diameters, output per hour and ABV nothing beats a modern packed column. Makes sense too, if you do the math. It can hold a bigger liquid bath (for more purity) and has a more open column, so less gas restriction and effectively (net/gross) a much bigger gas throughput per inch diameter than any other type of still, save a potstill. But with a potstill you can't redistill and make neutral in one go.

Regards, Odin.

I figured there was a way to design packing that won't compress. Most of us use copper mesh which will compress but is not an issue with the hobby size still. Over coming this issue is a big deal as with plates I believe you have a greater chance of flooding than with packing.

[der wo]

Odin,
I was wondering since a long time, that you don't post something like this. But didn't expect such a long post.
I don't want to say much here, because I never ran a plated still. Why? After reading the whole long "Flute thread", I still didn't know, why to build a plated column, or what plates can what packing not. But as long everything is about taste and many details of distillation are still a miracle, I normally keep my mouth shut. But I often roll my eyes when the forum writes again about the slow LMs, which are not the right tool for blablabla. And I have to admit, that some of my opinions have changed during the last years.
Noone can replace Priariepiss and Mash Rookie. If this forum is currently stuck or not, is hard to judge from the present. I think it is sometimes hard to come with new ideas here without someone feels attacked and only defends his own build or method. But I think, it is part of the evolution.

[Odin]

Der Wo,

Encouraging words for which I thank you.

To all,

But distilling is not about miracles. It is actually quite easy. Vapor speeds define the tastes you want to harvest. If you take it from there it all becomes very easy. Higher speeds for more early tails smearing, which is good for (aged out) whisky and rum. Slower vapor speeds so late heads and associated fruit tastes aren't over run by ethanol.

And if anyone has an issue with that: take a potstill and run it slower, then faster. Faster vapor speeds allow you to harvest the heavier molecules easier, slower vapor speeds enable to reap the light fractions.

Fruit brandy stils are wide for low vapor speeds. And non-insulated so - with every Watt that radiates out - vapor speeds slow down some more.

Scottish single malt stills have slim columns for high vapor speeds. Non-insulated, so they potentially loose speed ... and that's why they taper off (hope that's correct English): to maintain those high speeds.

Tails tastes are good for nutty and rood-like flavors, heads for fruity notes. (Late) Heads make up around 30% of taste profile, (early) Tails around 50%. Explains why cuts are so important and also why correct smearing of late heads / early tails is essentlal given a certain product and taste profile.

Heads, then Hearts, then Tails. Fruits, then body, then roots/nutty flavors. And it works in your mouth as well: Fruits at the front (lps, gum, front of tongue), body in the middle (middle of tongue), tailsy tastes towards the back of the throat.

It is what I call "the holy trinity of distilling". The run, the tastes that come over and how you perceive them all follow the same procedure/scheme. .Makes one believe in devinity.

Faster runs for more smearing, slower runs for less smearing. Have time to age? Smear! No time? Go slower.

Distilling multiple times in one column is based on the fact that the column now acts as a heat exchanger, where gases (hot, rising) warm reflux. And where reflux cools (phase changes) gases). The wider the column, the more gases (given a certain speed) one can move up. The better controlled the reflux management system, the tighter control is over the actual heat exchange that goes on. More heat exchange equals more redistillations, given you work with a flexible liquid bath in the column.

And more, so much more, but it is easy to solve the whole puzzle if you start from this premesis, what I call the Rule of the Distiller: "If you want to make top shelf product and above, you need to be able to influence vapor speeds in such a way that you can create the right amount of smearing, given the product you want to make".

It really isn't rocket science, but there are to many out there advocating "this" or "that", and that blurs things up tremendously.

Vapor speed is king for harvesting the right tastes. Management systems only manage reflux. And if you go "vodka" it does not mean you loose taste (read Mash Rookie's posts please), you just seperate (compact) heads and tails further from the hearts, so you can achieve less smearing, that helps you loose 30% of heads and 50% of tails taste, leaving you with just the (20%) body.

So are flutes good for neutral? Yes in a way they are, because - especially the bubble cap variety - has fixed liquid baths that hamper tails to come over. Ergo: 50% tails loss. But you'd need 40 plates to achieve perfect neutral, vs just 115 centimeters in a packed column. Easier and cheaper to build and control. Much cheaper to run. Loosing tails tastes is also the reason flute made whiskey is one dimensional and rather light. Anyone who thinks they make actually great whiskey in their flute: try to taste and see if there is anything at the back end. Probably not. And if there is, it has to be a perf plate (non fixed liquid baths allow for easier entrainment).

Regards, Odin.

[Aussiedownunder01]

Personally I'm a big believer in different dedicated columns for different jobs. Stripping runs are fast with my pot head, flavored single runs with my flute which are often turned into neutral after I have blended and have what I want for flavored, the rest goes back in as low wines and for neutral I feel you can't beat a big packed column on a low wines run. Most setups can also be used as a pot still but there is something to be said for a pot still. I love watching my flute but I also have a 3.5" borosilicate column and that is every bit as cool to sit and watch and makes neutral very fast but I wouldn't try to use it to make neutral in a single run. Load it with 13 gallons of low wines and it is awesome. I personally don't feel there is any benefit to trying to make neutral from a flute when a packed column the same size does it just as well f not better. Of course some of the dedicated flute guys will and have argued with me on that but that is my opinion.


Posting same time as Refluxed

Is there any chance of a photo of your 3.5" borosilicate column

[cranky]

Personally I'm a big believer in different dedicated columns for different jobs. Stripping runs are fast with my pot head, flavored single runs with my flute which are often turned into neutral after I have blended and have what I want for flavored, the rest goes back in as low wines and for neutral I feel you can't beat a big packed column on a low wines run. Most setups can also be used as a pot still but there is something to be said for a pot still. I love watching my flute but I also have a 3.5" borosilicate column and that is every bit as cool to sit and watch and makes neutral very fast but I wouldn't try to use it to make neutral in a single run. Load it with 13 gallons of low wines and it is awesome. I personally don't feel there is any benefit to trying to make neutral from a flute when a packed column the same size does it just as well f not better. Of course some of the dedicated flute guys will and have argued with me on that but that is my opinion.


Posting same time as Refluxed

Is there any chance of a photo of your 3.5" borosilicate column

Here is the page in my build thread that actually has a video of it running. Near the bottom of the page.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... &start=270
I'll say this about it too, anybody who thinks it can't produce at an equal or greater speed with less flavor than an equal sized flute is simply wrong. I'm a believer in doing things cheap and a believer in dedicated columns for different things. I'm also a cheap bastard so I have to think and do things a little differently sometimes. I also have a disclaimer at the beginning of the thread that people should read if they are thinking about doing something like this. There are a few other members around that run borosilicate but I don't wish to name any names but I'll give you a hint, one of them looks like frylock and hosts my videos

[bentstick]

And another" argument" brewing stick with what ya know! TADA side by side and taste buds prvail!

[cranky]

side by side and taste buds prvail!

I gotta say that's exactly the advice I gave spiff and as he posted above the packed column won.

[bentstick]

His loses he may find his OWN grove someday! Cheers

[bentstick]

Sorry Refluxed for the disruption but, its up to you decide, I have done many varing columns and this is my decision,and will not argue that! Do your reading and trials it your ball and your court, what fits you mate! cheers

[der wo]

But distilling is not about miracles. It is actually quite easy. Vapor speeds define the tastes you want to harvest.

Yes. But then perhaps someone finds something new. Ok, there may never be something turn around this rule, but something perhaps relativates the consequences of this rule.
I often thought I have come to an end about a theoretical or practical detail in spirit making. But then something happened. Probably you also thought with your first istill series something like "that's it, perhaps bigger stills sometimes, but why to change something?".