Column build

[Bavis54]

Hi guys, I have been around pot stills and pot distillation all my life, but only in last cpl years started doing it myself as hobby, I love it. But now I want to build a reflux column setup. I'm a great fabricator/welder, but I don't fully understand how a reflux column works. On my pot stills I run them completely by sight, sounds , etc I watch the outgoing distillate , smell it , taste it etc. But on columns from what I can find they go by temps to start even collecting distillate. How does that work? And if it's a closed system how do you keep from getting blown up? I know I can build the column, reflux condenser, and product condenser but as of now I dunno how to run it. Could someone send me a link to some literature or reference material? Any help here always appreciated, thank you

[Yummyrum]

First off , reflux stils aren't closed systems ....no still is . They are open to the atmosphere . ...otherwise as you suggested , its a bomb .

A CM (coolant management) still such as a plated still is open via the product condenser and the deflagmator condenser .

A LM ( liquid Management ) or a VM ( Vapour mangaement ) still is open to atmosphere because there is a vent hole above the reflux condenser .

As far as running a still , your taste and smell are still your ultimate guides .....use what you already know .

But yes , in a reflux still , temperature suddenly means a whole lot more . ......not as a ruling god , but as a hint that something is about to change ....so get your taste buds ready

[bluefish_dist]

On a column you can also use temperature to know abv as they are linked. You can run as a fixed reflux ratio where the abv will vary like a pot still or you can hold a temperature which will fix the abv and then adjust reflux. In the end smell and taste tell you what is good or bad.

[OtisT]

Hi guys, I have been around pot stills and pot distillation all my life, but only in last cpl years started doing it myself as hobby, I love it. But now I want to build a reflux column setup. I'm a great fabricator/welder, but I don't fully understand how a reflux column works. On my pot stills I run them completely by sight, sounds , etc I watch the outgoing distillate , smell it , taste it etc. But on columns from what I can find they go by temps to start even collecting distillate. How does that work? And if it's a closed system how do you keep from getting blown up? I know I can build the column, reflux condenser, and product condenser but as of now I dunno how to run it. Could someone send me a link to some literature or reference material? Any help here always appreciated, thank you

The book "The Complete Distiller" does a good job explaining the basics of still types and builds. I recommend it in your situation.

[Danespirit]

+1 Yummy.

Bavis, You need to do a lot of research before you are going into build mode.
No still what so ever (vacuum still is the only exception), should be a closed system. If it is, you don't have a still, but a bomb with hot alcohol in it.

But on columns from what I can find they go by temps to start even collecting distillate. How does that work?

It's the way a reflux still operates.
Whatever powers the boiler, throws a given amount of energy into your column.
This energy is transferred by the hot vapors inside the column.
What a reflux condenser does, is to take a part of that energy away from the vapors.
That means the vapor turns into liquid again, which drops down the column.
Eventually, the liquid is heated by the ascending vapors and some of it evaporates again.

That was a very basic explanation, just for you to understand the principle IOW the big picture of it.
To elaborate:
If a column is operated in TOTAL reflux, no product draw then over time, almost all the lighter fractions in a still charge will accumulate at the upper regions of the actual packed-column chamber. This is known as STACKING the vapors.
The LIGHTEST of the ascending vapors are dissolved gasses. eg nitrogen, air and carbon dioxide & a little argon. These are NON-condensable by our ordinary atmospheric pressure operations. Therefore they travel past the top condenser (reflux condenser) and are vented to atmosphere.Through the MANDATORY vent hole at the top. It does triple duty: as a non-condensable gasses vent, as an atmospheric equalization port (vent to the environment), and lastly, as a SAFETY outlet in the event of an over-pressure (usually caused by a blockage like 'puking').
Now one could argue that a CCVM is open to the atmosphere the same way a pot still is and therefore a vent ain't necessary.
Again, the NON-condensable gasses, have to go somewhere and the RC is located at a higher point than the takeoff. That means they would just be around the RC and the still won't function as intended.

Please do yourself a favor and read about the different reflux stills, before you decide what to build and how.
It is absolutely essential to understand how and what the still does before you crank up the boiler.
You may or may not have come across this thread..however, it's worth reading. : http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=46605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... 60&t=26460" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Please have a look at the excellent screen casts Samohon made in this thread.

[Bavis54]

Hey Danespirit- thank you for the help. The thread u guided me to is exactly what I need. I've seen several prints and designs, I just didn't understand that alcohol wouldn't escape through the vent in top of reflux condenser . But it makes sense that if it's cooling enough then distillate will condense and fall back down . One design plan I found on a cm style column talked of how to properly run it you wait til certain temp then adjust coolant flow and when ready open needle valve to collect ur product- this is just very new to me bc I'm used to collecting all the time and making cuts etc on my pots. I really wanna learn more on flutes, or played columns. Anyway thank you

[Bavis54]

Plated--

[Oldvine Zin]

Hey Bavis ,
If you really want to jump down that hole, I suggest that you start reading the Flute Talk thread here - almost 60 pages of great information with a few pages of bickering thrown in. That thread lead me to build this http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=59056
Good luck and it sounds like that you are figuring it out

OVZ

[Danespirit]

I'm glad I could help.

Surely, I understand the reasoning of a pot stiller, that haven't yet tried a reflux still. Power input= some kind of take off (when at temperature).
For a reflux still, this is not the case.
Remember, Ethanol is in a liquid state up til around 78 C. If your RC is a tad cooler, all the vapors hitting it will become liquid. The reason why the vapors won't escape out of the vent.
The trick is to establish a Status Quo in the column, where the energy of the vapors matches the energy drawn by the RC.
That state is called equilibrium...at this point, the aforementioned "stacking" in the column occurs.
It's a crucial state for the whole distilling process, where the laws of nature will help you to sort things out.
One could say, the column automatically brings the foreshots to the top for you.
At this point, it's up to the skills of the operator to draw the foreshots at a rate that doesn't disturb the equilibrium in the column.
Now it's easy to see why insulating the column is recommended. A simple cold draft could be enough to mess everything up in there again.
A CM still, is a bit more of a challenge to run compared to other reflux stills, as it takes a careful adjustment of the cooling water.

+1 on the flute thread Oldvine.

[Oldvine Zin]

Well said Danesprit

OVZ

[Bavis54]

Thanks OVZ- that's good stuff, I especially liked the looks and style of the flute u built. it's do you currently use that flute? You kinda answered one of my issues with those pics, I know how to build reflux condenser , I know how to mate column to one my boilers, but what I didn't know was how I was gonna get inside the column to build plates and turndowns, and with the stainless ferrules you used on each stack, that'll make it possible for me build it section at a time. Nice build-

[Danespirit]

I build all my equipment modular....the beauty of it is you can swap parts around to whatever purpose.
The original flute is built differently though. Credits to Olddog for sharing his build with the HD community.
Instead of modules attached with ferrules, it has just one long plate tree.
The plates are lined up with a piece of threaded rod. If one removes the RC, the whole plate tree can be pulled out of the top of the column.
I intend to build a similar construction soon and of course, I'll share the build with the folks in here.
It will be a 3" with ten plates, mostly for neutral spirit...but I can take some plates away when I like to run flavored like Whisky (yes Whisky can be done in a plated column).
Heck, one could even use it as a pot still, when all plates are pulled and the RC has no water....it makes no sense to me though, cause I have a separate pot still head http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p7318039

[Oldvine Zin]

Hey Bavis,
Yes that is the still that I currently use, with 5 plates she makes a great neutral, drop her down to 4 plates and she makes a nice rum or whiskey. I also built a pothead for the same keg boiler http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=62347 she's a great stripper and with a second spirit run makes a fine (at least what I think) bourbon. Modular is the way to go.

Keep stillin
OVZ