Offset flute performance loss

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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Ben Stillin
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Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

I have a 6 plate copper flute I built in 2010/2011 using the only 4" could get at the time "L". This makes my column plus the deflag and product condenser (one piece unit) very heavy. I have had it on a boiler made of 16ga and the column would sway slightly as it ran. My new larger boiler is even thinner, 1-1.3mm and will probably sway more. It would be much better if I could offset my column from the boiler so I can provide for independent support for the column. This would not easily allow for me to use 4" from the boiler though. If I reduce the boiler output to something like 1" to pipe over to my now offset by 12" or so column, what kind of performance loss will I see? Will it just be the loss in the increased surface area to volume ratio (fixed by insulation and a longer heat up time) or will the losses be constant due to restriction from 4 to 1.

Does anyone have a better suggestion to keep the 30+ lbs of copper off the top of my thin ass boiler (stainless drum)?
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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Swedish Pride
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Swedish Pride »

a chain in the ceiling to take the weight off is how I would do it if I had your nice predicament
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Pikey »

Guy ropes ?
Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

I sadly cannot get anything from above due to the fact that the roof I have is canvas awning and won't hold. I have thought about it a little more though and I think I can come up with something like this.

I could take a 4"x4" spool and weld it to a support strut that supports from under the barrel (barrel is on rolling dolly) like this.
Attachments
Drawing1.jpg
Drawing1.jpg (11.23 KiB) Viewed 3508 times
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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Swedish Pride
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Swedish Pride »

attach the support to the rib of the barrel, that will stiffen it up a fair bit
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Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

like this? I guess I could socket 3/4 inside of 1" to make it removable and adjustable in at least 1 dimension.
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Drawing2.jpg
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2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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LWTCS
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by LWTCS »

Something like this would allow for a table mount and column bottoms drain back solution.
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CD flange & drainback.jpg
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by LWTCS »

Sets up like this
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CD flange & drainback1.jpg
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Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

I like that, and back to my original thought

Will a smaller vapor feed create a continuous problem. I just checked a commercial still maker and it looks like he is running 10-12" columns offset from the boiler by at least a yard. The vapor feed pipe is considerably smaller than the column but there is a single stage inside the boiler. I don't know what that changes exactly though.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
Ben Stillin
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Location: The Great State of Texas

Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/w7wAAOSw5 ... -l1600.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I could just buy this and slap 2 1" triclamps on the side then find a bolt flange to 4" triclamp and I am in business. I wonder what size pipes should I use though
SD doesn't have as much 4" stuff as 6+"
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by googe »

I used 3/4" feed line on my side mounted columns, first column was 3 plates, second column was around 600mm packed. It ran both columns fine, it actually seemed to run better than straight off the boiler. 1"would be good though.
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by LWTCS »

100% googe
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by cob »

Ben Stillin wrote:I sadly cannot get anything from above due to the fact that the roof I have is canvas awning and won't hold.
if your only stabilizing 30#

use the support poles from the awning, or build a tripod.

unless your dead set on an offset flute.
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Dallywolf
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Dallywolf »

What about an engine hoist to support it.
Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

An engine hoist would work (with some height adjustment) and I actually have one (has Pontiac 400 hanging from it right now) but it takes up as much space as my stilling area. I think I am going to try with the offset design. If it fails I'm out the cost of a couple of CSST lines and a $40 spool. Then I can go back to the engine hoist.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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Danespirit
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Danespirit »

I think an offset design, would be the best solution for you.
My suggestion would be to use a reducer at the bottom, you could mount with a tri-clamp. You can get a 4" by 2" reducer..as far as I know you can't get one that is 1", but further reducing or a threaded fitting with tri-clamp, should be doable.
That leaves the original flute unmolested.
Here is a link to the build Googe made: http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... 17&t=51194
It was the first thing that came to my mind as I read about your problem.
A simple and elegant solution.
Below is a picture of that threaded fitting that came to my mind, I use some of them for angling my Liebig in an easy way.
You can get them in male or female threaded, I doubt they make them in 4" though...hence the reducer.
From there you'll just have to fabricate some kind of "water lock" like in Googe's build.
Female threads tri-clamp
Female threads tri-clamp
Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

Lets see if this is going to work

This is my side column mount, I welded from the inside
Attachments
outside side column mount.jpg
inside side column mount.jpg
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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Danespirit
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Danespirit »

Not to criticize your work, but are you sure the welding at the bottom is binding properly? Of course, it could just look like it isn't to me, the way the picture is taken.
You should polish the inside of the tube (where the weld protrudes into it) and clean the welds with some acid prior to a cleaning run.
It will ensure you're getting all the nasty stuff cleaned out and take the oxidized layer from the welding area.
Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

It's well connected, the reflection is causing some wierd effect in the photo. I will hit it with my electro polisher next week, and take some new photos.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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LWTCS
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by LWTCS »

Can test like so :lol:
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Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

I will probably just cap it and put 35psi of air into it and looking for leaks in a tub of water
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
emptyglass
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by emptyglass »

Maybe some soapy water in an atomiser bottle would be easier than submerging it in water
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Ben Stillin
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Re: Offset flute performance loss

Post by Ben Stillin »

Ehh, 6 in 1 and a half dozen in the other. I have a water tub I use in my shop. I would have to find a spray bottle. :-) i get home Saturday. I can hit it with the electro polisher and some phosphoric.
2" Boka on a sanke and a 4" 6 plate flute (learning setups)

Current setup
Wall mounted steam stripper
Wall mounted 6 plate "flute"
50 gallon immersion heated mash kettle
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