45 degree slant still

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:42 am

Hello everyone. I was last here back in 2012 and was in touch via pm with another member who sent me some plans for a 45 degree offset reflux still - the condenser was off the top of the column at an angle. I bought most of the parts I needed but never got to build it as I had a marriage breakdown and had to shelve it in storage. Anyway I've looked on both Google and all over this site for the plans again but can't seem to find them. Can anyone help?

StillerBoy · Post by **StillerBoy** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:56 am

Have a look through these...

Mars

https://www.google.ca/search?rls=en-us& ... lant+plate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:10 am

Hi thanks for the reply. The problem with the search engine is that there are hundreds of posts where people mention 45 degree slant plates and this makes finding plans for a 45 degree slant / offset still quite hard to find, hence me starting a thread. Is no problem really I can build a straight forward bokaif I can't find the plans I was using back in 2012

Post by **Pikey** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:28 am

Offset doesn't have to have a 45 degree slant, in fact I 'd think that would be a major problem for teh return tube - unless THAT is the bit which slants at 45 degrees. Mine slants at approximately that angle although the reflux tube itself is vertical.

PLease note that my return tube is way too low down the column for efficient reflux, but the principle is right.

[Edit is this what it looked like ? I particularly like the offset because it looks nice and will run in 100% pot mode. I never did run it with any frm of reflux, but I'm wishing I had tried a little, just to see how much difference it makes to the abv. ]

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:37 am

My apologies all but I've managed to find it in my old email account

Pikey it's very different to yours mate - the condenser housing, which is attached to the column at an upward 45 degree angle, has a small dam built into it with a return pipe high up the wall leading back into the column. So when it reaches a certain level (dependant on how far open the needle valve is) it essentially overflows back into the column. Probably doesn't make much sense - I'll post some pics when I start building ...

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:45 am

Hopefully this will work:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9qoi1 ... p=drivesdk

Post by **Skipper1953** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:53 am

I think you are looking for a condenser controlled design by Manu de Hanoi. The reflux condenser portion of the column is slanted.

Post by **Pikey** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:09 am

BigWilly wrote:My apologies all but I've managed to find it in my old email account

Pikey it's very different to yours mate - the condenser housing, which is attached to the column at an upward 45 degree angle, has a small dam built into it with a return pipe high up the wall leading back into the column. So when it reaches a certain level (dependant on how far open the needle valve is) it essentially overflows back into the column. Probably doesn't make much sense - I'll post some pics when I start building ...

Oh I think we had someone put a diagram of that type of arrangement on here a couple of weeks or so ago

Glad you've found what you need

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:40 am

If anyone has built one of these I'm wondering how big the damn should be?

Post by **still_stirrin** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:23 pm

BigWilly wrote:If anyone has built one of these I'm wondering how big the damn should be?

For a LM reflux head, if you can get to an ounce of liquid holdup, or less...great! Typically, the less liquid holdup the less smearing you'll get.

In your design, how large is the ID of the column and condenser section? That will be used to calculate the liquid holdup over the weir (damn) in your design. Do you know how to calculate the volume of a section of a cylindar like that? I'd intersect two equations in the integral to calculate it. (calculus)
ss

Post by **skow69** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:43 pm

Looks kinda like a Hookline drawing.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=18873

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:40 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
BigWilly wrote:If anyone has built one of these I'm wondering how big the damn should be?
For a LM reflux head, if you can get to an ounce of liquid holdup, or less...great! Typically, the less liquid holdup the less smearing you'll get.

In your design, how large is the ID of the column and condenser section? That will be used to calculate the liquid holdup over the weir (damn) in your design. Do you know how to calculate the volume of a section of a cylindar like that? I'd intersect two equations in the integral to calculate it. (calculus)
ss

Thanks for the reply mate. It's a really good point you make about smearing and especially so because my colum is 2" (can't remember the length but it's at the upper end of recommended - I'll measure it later today) and I decided at the time that I wanted a 3" condenser and have built a double coil to fit it (i think the ease of winding a bigger condensing coil was part of my decision). Anyway I'll really have to make that damn low if I go with the 3" as it will obviously be wider... I will do some measurements this afternoon and get back. What role does my needle valve play in smearing? I guess it's not as simple as increasing the flow from the damn??

Post by **still_stirrin** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:34 am

BigWilly wrote:... What role does my needle valve play in smearing? I guess it's not as simple as increasing the flow from the damn??

Smearing is not affected by the needle valve. The needle valve controls the reflux ratio, that is, how much of the condensate returns to the column for additional purification (spilling over the weir) vs how much of the condensate you collect at the product outlet.

Higher reflux ratios will purify the alcohol as higher boiling point constituents will be sent back down the column allowing the cleaner vapors (with a lower boiling point) to rise to the reflux condenser. First the foreshots then early heads will collect in the condensate cup.

The smearing is the "mixing" of cleaner rising vapors as they condense into the pool of already condensed product. The larger the pool...the greater the hold up of liquid that will blend together as some of the condensate spills back over the weir.

Make sense?
ss

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:56 am

Makes perfect sense mate - thanks for the explanation - it basically needs to be small enough to not mix the nasties with the goodies... My column is 55 inches by the way and the condenser housing is 3 inches with the double wound coil fitting snugly at roughly 8 inches long. Dug everything out today and I reckon I've got almost everything I need to start building on the weekend ...

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:05 pm

Regards my coil, how snugly does it have to fit in the housing? I've measured it at just over 2.5 inches and my housing is 3 inches. Do i need to wind it bigger / smaller or can I roll with it?

Post by **still_stirrin** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:31 pm

BigWilly wrote:Regards my coil, how snugly does it have to fit in the housing? I've measured it at just over 2.5 inches and my housing is 3 inches. Do i need to wind it bigger / smaller or can I roll with it?

No, it actually is better if it doesn't contact the shell. When it does, it conducts heat to (cold from) the shell instead of pulling heat from the vapor. This lowers the efficiency of the condenser. But, you can put a "centering plug" of scrubbies to position the coil and hold it in the shell. You don't want the scrubbies to be tightly packed, just enough to hold the coil in place.
ss

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:37 pm

That's great - i have a cap I'll solder it into - hoping it will stay centred. Thanks again for your help

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:21 pm

Any issue with the coil being too long? I've wound a 24 inch double with cold finger - airflow seems good - haven't got the fittings yet for water but can't see flow being an issue...

Post by **skow69** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:56 am

Just the waste of time, space, and copper. Your reflux coil has a simple job: To knock down all of the vapor all of the time, so too big won't hurt anything.

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:48 am

Brilliant. Nice one.

EventfulAnimal · Post by **EventfulAnimal** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:43 pm

If anyone has built one of these I'm wondering how big the damn should be?

Willy, I recently built a LM reflux that's a bit l like this, and I did away with a dam/weir completely. I have a 10mm take off pipe coming off the bottom of a 50mm elbow. The liquid flowing past goes down the tube and through the valve perfectly well without the weir. Less pooling means = less smearing. I might decide to install a copper gasket weir just past the takeoff valve if I ever decide to run it as a pot still, but as a reflux still it's just great.

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:49 pm

DavidR thanks for posting mate - that would be much easier than putting a damn in. Plus, I've been thinking lately I'd be much happier hanging my condenser vertically in it's housing than trying to centre it in a 45 degree angle housing with copper scrubbies.

Just to be clear, are you saying you literally just have one take off hole?

Looking at that 90 degree angle, I'd imagine the liquid returning to the column isn't as central as if it flowed through a damn pipe. Plus I already have a 45 degree elbow - would it work any better or worse do you think if I added another 45 degree elbow? So the section with the take off would be on a 45 degree angle but the condenser would be vertical? Hope that makes sense

Post by **skow69** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:32 pm

You can also control the pool size by using an external reflux return line. The closer it is to the valve, the smaller the pool.

This one holds less than a half ounce.

EventfulAnimal · Post by **EventfulAnimal** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:43 pm

BigWilly wrote:Just to be clear, are you saying you literally just have one take off hole?

Correct

BigWilly wrote:Looking at that 90 degree angle, I'd imagine the liquid returning to the column isn't as central as if it flowed through a damn pipe.

I was worried about this, and I was going to try and fix it, but I'm pulling 96% ABV so it can't be doing too bad. Some believe that you don't need to centre your reflux on the packing. That's certainly my experience. I think the very tight packing I use helps wick the liquid back toward the centre. See http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=66993

BigWilly wrote:I already have a 45 degree elbow - would it work any better or worse do you think if I added another 45 degree elbow?

There are much wiser minds on here to answer that question, but my hunch is it won't make a huge difference at 45 degrees. The only possibility is that the coil might rest on one side of the pipe, leaving more space above for vapour to escape.

Here's a diagram of how mine works. No dam and no centring ring - pulls virtual azeotrope without any problem, with minimal smearing.

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:05 am

Thanks for the advice fellas.

My condenser housing is 3 inches as opposed to the 2 inch column. So I have a reducer and this has a very, very slight reservoir when it's at a 45 degree angle so is perfect to put my take off pipe in there. I've soldered up my coil no problem but I cheated and used fittings - elbows etc after a previous failed attempt to solder the pipes directly into the cold finger.

So...

Is there a nack to soldering a pipe into a larger piece of copper whilst keeping it flush?? The videos I find on YouTube are all regarding fittings.

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:18 am

Sussed it out - drilled hole, ground down the outer edge of the pipe so it was slightly cone shaped and soldered in - no problem - practiced on some scrap beforehand

BigWilly · Post by **BigWilly** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:51 am

Ok so I built the original 45 degree slant design but without a reservoir. I'm just waiting on some fittings for the needle valve. In terms of the take off pipe, do you guys leave it in situ or do you remove it somehow when you remove the column from the keg??

I wish I'd been a bit more sensible with my condesner now - it looks like a bazooka it's so big...

Home Distiller

45 degree slant still

45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still

Re: 45 degree slant still