3" Flute Build

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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby Pikey » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:04 pm

Surely a "Braze" must contain "Brass" - N'est ce pas ? :?
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby sltm1 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:07 pm

Whatever, it's what I was taught. Years ago as a fine jeweler we soldered with 1000 degree plus solders for silver, gold and platinum as normal business practice. Any brazing I've ever done was brass to steel. Guess definitions change depending on the job description their applied to. By example, a "penny weld" in blacksmithing is melting a copper penny between 2 pieces of iron in the forge, and it's a real pain to do.



BTW, Beasty Boys, it's a beautiful build !!!!
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:34 am

zapata wrote: I hate all the stays cleans silvs bla bla branding. Can't they just call it "cu2cu15" or "cuss4"?

Right? Well I ordered plenty Stay-Brite 8 and Stay Clean liquid flux online so that should be here next friday. Pretty expensive for a roll as well. I'll sit on the 15% solder and use it for joints where it may require more structural integrity.


Anyways thank you Zapata for setting me back on the right path and thank you for the clarification Sltm1. The guys at the local welding supply store don't know jack about silver solderin/brazing and everytime I went in there with questions it was a shitshow. Undoubtedly my confusion between soldering and brazing didn't help. I just wish they would have told me ( wish that they knew) that the 15% stay silve wouldn't work for cu-ss... '

While I wait for the solder/flux, I'll get to work on welding the keg/ferrule, reducer after shotgun, parrot and may cut the sight holes on the column. I gotta research more threads and see if its safest to drill the holes after soldering the sight glass fittings on to the column before or after cutting the holes. I have seen it done both ways.

I also realized that i will not be able to do the SS ferrules on both the top and bottom of the column If i want to be able to keep the tree removable. The ferrules are on the ID of the copper and would get in the way of the plates. I have to decide if I want to do an ez flange or weld on a ferrule out of copper wire as well as decide if I want to be able to remove the tree from the top or bottom. I am leaning towards putting the copper flange on the top for stability between the column and the keg. I am also leaning towards using solid copper wire to make the flange because i would imagine that if i did the EZ Ferrule I would alter the shape of the column enough that it would make the plates difficult to slide in and out.

Back to work. Cheers
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:12 am

Well I had a rough two days learning how to solder all over again. Every time I tried to solder the reducer to the shotgun I would desolder the cap of the shotgun. I would take it apart, clean it, heat it back up and fix the leak only to have it happen again attaching the reducer. I must have done this 10 times before I finally got the hang of it. The main issue was that I was using the 15% solder for all joints and by switching to soft solder I had to completely relearn it. In short I spent the better part of two days understanding how much heat is enough, how much heat is too much, how the solder follows the heat and the importance of working with everything being extremely clean and fluxed.

So I was able to solder the reducer to the shotgun and attached a union between that and the parrot. I did this because it will be easier to clean but more importantly I don't know where I want to be collecting and If I will be using propane or shelling out the money to go electric. If I am using gas I will have the collection point plenty far from the keg but If I use electric I am happy to collect much closer.
Shotgun to parrot union.jpg


After struggling with learning to solder for two days I was so happy that it finally clicked and I had a blast making the parrot. The tube from the union to the bottom of the parrot is 5/8" and rounds back up into 7/8" tubing. It expands up and has the 5/8" tubing sit up about a quarter inch above the collection rim so that I can read the proofing hydrometer better. I got to thinking about adding a brace and knew I needed to make a vent somewhere so I used some 1/4" tubing. Its bent and soldered to the parrot/downtube for support. At the highest point where it touches the down tube I filled the lower half of the 1/4" tube and drilled into the 5/8" tube to make the vent.
vent plug.jpg

Finished parrot.jpg

Finished parrot 2.jpg



I was able to make a flange out of some copper wire. I did this so that I can keep the tree removable should I need to change anything later. The ferrules would impede this so I made the flange on the top and will have the SS ferrule on the bottom for strength.
Fitting the wire.jpg
Flange to Ferrule.jpg


I also disassembled the 15.5 gal keg today and will weld the ferrule to it later. After that I just need to make a couple fittings to connect the ferrules to the dephleg while I wait for the stay brite solder for the SS-Cu connections.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby raketemensch » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:35 pm

Nice work, man. Also a great display of patience.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby Swedish Pride » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:44 am

The Stay clean Flux is the shit, it' will make your life so much easier, I use normal ledfree solder with it and it works good.
It does not cook as readily as other flux I've tried.

A pointer if you don't mind, the SS looks cooked, heating it until it's red is not good , it does something I can't remember what it's called but basically you remove it's stainless abilities.
I think you should be able to undo it in a Acid bath though.

Anyway, on to the soldering.
I'd keep the flame away from the SS altogether, just heat the Copper and when the flame coming off the copper is greenish in colour and the flux starts to bubble you know that it's about ready to accept the solder.
The copper will bring the SS up to heat so you don't need to put flame to the SS at all.

You can of course heat the SS if you so please, I do it all the time on SS to SS soldering, you just have to be more careful not to overheat it.
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Re: 3

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:30 pm

raketemensch wrote:Nice work, man. Also a great display of patience.

Thanks man. Patience is not something I am good at. So much so that since my shipping got screwed up on the new solder I think I might build either a gin basket and or another plated section. The solder arrives next wed- fri. I am in "build mode" and have nothing to do.

If I do make a gin or infusion basket I would like to place it above the dephleg so that the medium is not diluted by falling distillate. I don't care for gin much but infusions can be fun and while I am building I figure why not.... I'd rather do one lap of vinegar and sac runs than two later down the road. Its either that or save the remaining 25" of 3" copper I have for another flute build or adding a plated column + thumper to my pot still.

If I make another plated column section I would need to decide if it would be in one or two parts and how many plates. I would likely push the spacing down to 4" verses the 5" spacing I currently have in the column. I would also need to find out if the dephleg could handle another plated section.


As for now I got the ferrule welded to the keg and cleaned up the remaining fittings and flanges. I had issues with the ferrules being too large for the 3" type L copper tubing so I mounted the ferrules in to my brothers wood lathe and used a grinder to take them down to size.

Swedish Pride wrote:A pointer if you don't mind, the SS looks cooked, heating it until it's red is not good , it does something I can't remember what it's called but basically you remove it's stainless abilities.
I think you should be able to undo it in a Acid bath though.

Anyway, on to the soldering.
I'd keep the flame away from the SS altogether, just heat the Copper and when the flame coming off the copper is greenish in colour and the flux starts to bubble you know that it's about ready to accept the solder.
The copper will bring the SS up to heat so you don't need to put flame to the SS at all.


Swedish Pride, thanks for the tips. At the time I had no idea how much heat was to much, as I was teaching myself/learning both how to solder and how to use oxy/acetylene. After learning how to use soft solder I have a much greater understanding of the heat required vs the % silver in the solder. I will watch for the flux bubbling and green flame when soldering the SS to Cu. Thanks!
I have read people heat up the stainless first and I have read people heat up the copper first. I have also read that problems arise from overheating SS. As far as I know if you overheat copper you either anneal it or melt it. So I figure it is safest to heat the copper first.... Just gonna have to try it out.

I may try the acid bath too if sanding wont clean up the SS. I read that some people do a baking soda/water bath to neutralize the ph after the acid bath. Do you do recommend this?
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby Saltbush Bill » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:39 pm

Different strokes for different Folk.
I'm one of those who heats the stainless and let the heat run to the copper.
Never had a problem with messing any stainless up doing it that way.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby zapata » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:36 am

The Yeasty Boyz wrote: I would also need to find out if the dephleg could handle another plated section.

I'm pretty sure the dephleg is limited by power not number of plates. Whatever power the deph knocks down with 4 plates, it'll do the same with 8 or 20 plates.

But I wouldn't build more plates. You built the flute for whiskey. From my reading a few more plates will just be a bit of a no man's land. Too neutral for whiskey, too flavorful for neutral or even vodka. But a 25"x3" packed section over 4 plates should make a heckuva neutral/vodka machine.
Might be enough in that 25" to make both a packed section and gin basket, but I'm not up on ideal basket sizes or hynrid column lengths. Not sure, but itngives ya another option.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:15 pm

Thanks Zapata... That makes sense. The only thing that would necessitate a larger dephleg would be heat input/boiler size.

Ya I think your right about a packed column vs more plates. I have been spending so much time reading flute threads I forgot packing can strip flavor and increase proof better than plated columns for the same size.

I also started building the gin basket. I found on HD that you need 30ml of botanicals per L of wash. I run 13 gal in a 15.5 gal keg so that makes 49L wash and a cooresponding 1.47L of botanicals. 1.47L is 89.7 in3. So the length of 3" needed would be 12.6". I think the piece I have to use is around 8". Close enough for me. I could refill it mid run. I also found it interesting that you can run the dephleg in 100% reflux and deal out the gin basket with fresh of different botanicals.

A lot of people have drains on the gin basket... Would I have problems with the oils falling onto the top plate?
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:14 pm

This build has been a roller coaster of a learning experience. After desoldering the shotgun countless times I decided to make a new one. Every time I added the reducer I would desolder the plate.
The main reasons this was happening was that I had too loose of a fit between the tubes and the plate, I was not using a clamp as a heat sink and I was over heating the pice.
Got it figured out and will make the new one better. This one will be a bit longer ( 23") and will have 4 or 5 baffles. I will use hard solder for the plates and soft solder for the reducer after the shotgun is built.
shotgun baffles.jpg


The Stay Brite 8 and Stay Clean liquid flux arrived and damn... this stuff kicks ass. I wish I had used this explicitly from the start.
Got all the SS ferrules soldered up.
sight glass.jpg
Stay Brite 8 + Stay clean kicks ass
Also got the keg ready for its new home.
keg ferrule.jpg


I made a gin basket chamber. I know most people just used a column section with a screened bottom. Instead I made a little chamber. If it is impractical I can just put the lid into the chamber and fill it like normal, but I kind think the way it is might make cleaning easier.
gin basket 1.jpg


Also got the Dephleg hooked up the the pluming and water tested. I will be running a garden hose to a valved splitter. That will go to the bottom of the dephleg and the bottom of the shotgun. (I know some people have the cold input for the dephleg at the top but I worry about air bubbles.) I will have a needle valve after the dephleg and after the shotgun so that I can regulate flow while keeping the vessile full of water. I was reading that it is best to have seperate water lines for each so that by turning up one you don't diminish the other. If this is a problem I can just run off two hoses.
dephleg.jpg


I worked on the packed column section. Both sides have flanges and I have two plates roughed out. Not certain if I will keep it open thought the chamber or run a SS rod holding the top lid down. It would decrease surface area and volume of the srubbers/medium but It may be nice for storing the section if there was a lid to keep everything inside.
I think I will make a sight glass on the packed column and or the gin basket with the ferrules I cut off of the keg.

Still debating where would be most beneficial to look into a packed section. I expect near the bottom...
sight glass placements.jpg


Still gotta attach the sight glasses, solder up the shotgun. Just got another ferment rolling. Cant wait.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby Swedish Pride » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:16 am

now you're sucking diesel.
Looking good, won't be long now.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby zapata » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:44 am

So for that shotgun problem, so it's the end plate that ends up inside the reducer that is the problem?
If you don't mind another clamp, you can put an ez flange on the reducer. Make the endplate oversized to match the diameter of the reducer's ez flange. The end plate thus becomes the other ez flange. I'm sure there are documented builds like that if you need a visual.

And fyi, packed section goes on top, it works better with the higj abv, while the plates work better holding down the water and feeding the packing a steady high abv diet.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:48 am

Swedish pride - I'm certainly happy to be on a roll again. The two days of stagnation was driving me insane.

Zapata - ya the problem was the end cap unsokdering. Not only was it a loose fit but that loose got was filled with soft solder that would run when attaching the next section. The idea about making the bottom plate larger to double as a flange is a great idea. If I had a local source for tri clamps and ferrules I would go that route but I don't think I can wait another week for shipping. I made the new shotgun plates nearly twice as thick, better fit, will be using hard solder and will use a heat sink when soft soldering the reducer to the shotgun.

Also I was saying I don't know where the most beneficial place for a sight glass would be on a packed column. (The panned column will definitely go above the plates.

If the sight glass were to be near the top of the packed column I expect you would only see the vapor being knocked down by the depleg. If it were in the middle you would see the knocked down vapor from the dephleg plus the vapor condensing on the packing. At the bottom you would see mostly distillate returning downward.

Now that I think about it it may be most beneficial to have the sight glass at the top of the packed column. It would help give a visual interpretation of how much reflux is going on.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby zapata » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:56 am

Gotcha. I agree with the placement at the top if you use a glass on the packed section. Its the only place it will provide any useful information, but mostly it will just be something to look at. You already know how much reflux there is from the power input vs. product output.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby poundtowne » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:04 am

This may sound like a crazy question, but Im on my 1st build and I am wondering if there is a benefit to having a small section (maybe 2') of packed column at the top, bottom, or even the middle of the column (as mentioned earlier). Would this increase the purity at all or just be a waste? Also, how long do you you recommend the shotgun dephlegmator be? I am building a 4" column. Ive been doing quite a bit of research and there are so many opinions on dephlemator sizes and types.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:54 pm

poundtowne wrote:This may sound like a crazy question, but Im on my 1st build and I am wondering if there is a benefit to having a small section (maybe 2') of packed column at the top, bottom, or even the middle of the column (as mentioned earlier). Would this increase the purity at all or just be a waste? Also, how long do you you recommend the shotgun dephlegmator be? I am building a 4" column. Ive been doing quite a bit of research and there are so many opinions on dephlemator sizes and types.

I don't believe I am in any position to give advice given my inexperience with flutes. That being said here is what I think... Throwing a packed section into a flute will strip flavors and boost the ABV a bit. Flutes in general are intended to deliver good flavor at a high abv with pot sill take off speeds. Adding a packed section will boost the abv in the way another couple plates would do but it would strip the flavor more than the plates would. (keep in mind I have never run a flute.) I added a packed section to my build because I want it to be able to produce good whiskey and a good neutral, this is why my build is modular. From what I have read anything less than 10 plates will not make a neutral in one run and as Zpata said in this thread
From my reading a few more plates will just be a bit of a no man's land. Too neutral for whiskey, too flavorful for neutral or even vodka.
I think the only good benefit of a 2" packed section would be if your plates and column were stainless and you needed to throw come copper in the vapor path. As far as the dephleg length goes I would read through the flute talk thread. Im sure you will find the answer there. I am surprised at how little water flow to the dephleg is required to run 10% reflux. So i guess it depends on weather your two secions would be detachable or fixed and in either case you would need to decide what you want to produce.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:41 pm

It works.... holy shit! Im stoked.

I added the sight glasses to the packed column section and to the gin basket. I almost skipped the gin basket but realized that it could be beneficial for testing packing mediums vs density. I have a big fear of over packing the column and being able to see if it is too tight or if channeling occurs will be nice. I also made an extension between the PC and the parrot to move the collection point away from the propane until I can justifty spending more money on this project and build a controller/ buying a heating element.

I also made some housing for the plumbing valves. I used 3/8" brass needle valves. They kinda have a rough time going from 95% closed to 100% closed but fortunately I ran seperate intake lines to the dephleg/PC and each line has another valve on the hose splitter. So I am able to control the flow rate at two points for each the RC and PC.
plumbing-01.jpg
I also added a drain to the parrrot. Its a 3/8" SS ball valve with a PTFE seating.
parrot drain-01.jpg


With all this done I was able to do a vinegar run and a sac run tonight! I can't express how awesome it is to watch this thing in action. I had three leaks during the vinegar run (not surprised.) Two were in the extension between the PC and the parrot because I reheated and changed the angle without resodering. The other leak was at the reducer above the deplheg. All leaks were able to be fixed mid run with the heat off and the the dephleg running 100% reflux.

I forgot to order one more tri clamp so I couldn't run both the packed column section and the gin basket at the same time. So each vinegar run and sac run were twice as long. I did get some good cleaning done after the vinegar run by soaking parts in the hot vinegar/water solution. That really cleaned it up quick.

Here is the flute as I initially intended.
Intension-01.jpg


And here it is with the packed section. Fortunately the roof in my garage has a attic acess point that I can pop off to give the flute enough room to stand tall. It will be even higher with the gin basket when I run infusions.

For the sac run I charged the keg, turned on the dephleg, cranked the heat to max and waited for the plates to flood. Once each plate started to flood I dropped the heat and waited a half hour for the plates to hit equilibrium. I then took the flow to the dephleg down to a drip and sent some water to the shotgun. And holy shit!!!! it hit 185 proof!!!! Stoked :mrgreen: :D :D I had only loaded up the boiler with one gallon of 80 proof tails so the proof dropped quickly and I ran it for about an hour till it got to 20 proof. I have another 4 days until my ferment is ready so I think I will reload the distillate and run it again to get more used to compressing heads/tails and hitting peak abv.

In the meantime I am going to clean the inside as much as I can and polish the outside/seal with laquer.
Attachments
what I ended up making-01.jpg
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby zapata » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:45 pm

Hell yeah, lookin' good!
1 question, first picture, where it looks like reinforced vinyl coolant lines? I didn't take the time to think through the coolant path, but those vertical hoses caught my eye. I've seen vertical hose like that get warm from the output of a condenser and soften to the point that it bends and restricts flow. In one case to the point that the pressure built enough to blow the hose off the fitting. Now it wasn't with that reinforced hose, it was plain vinyl and standard garden hose, just something to look out for. I got around it with a springy coil thing made to prevent kinks in garden hoses (and diy'd one from a tubing bending spring when it happened with smaller D vinyl).

Can't wait to hear your tasting notes.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby Saltbush Bill » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:31 am

Good to see it finished and working :thumbup: You should get many many years of service out of that build.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:46 am

zapata wrote:Hell yeah, lookin' good!
1 question, first picture, where it looks like reinforced vinyl coolant lines?
Can't wait to hear your tasting notes.


The lines are 3/8 OD 1/4" ID reinforced vinyl tubing which has an operating temperature up to 150 degrees. I read on HD ( forget who ) recommend the reiinforced vinyl lines for the output and standard vinyl for the input. In testing them they stayed plenty ridgid so im hoping they are good. The main concern I had was the 1/4" ID being too small but it seemed to put out just fine.
The plumbing goes from a garden hose to a Y splitter. The splitter has a valve on each split. The split goes to the reinforced vinyl. One goes to the bottom of the deplheg and the other to the bottom of the shotgun. Both outputs go to the valve housing thing and enter from the top and exit from the bottom. They both stay seperate so I can see the flow rate leaving and feel the temp of the water.

Huge thanks to Zapata, Saltbush Bill and Swedish Pride for your wisdom throughout the build
Huge thanks to OD for his innovations and everyone here on HD.

Ill polish it up take some pics and do a couple runs and report back.

Cheers :ebiggrin:
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby raketemensch » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:25 am

The packed section is definitely handy to have, but you probably won’t want to use it when making Whiskey. It’s great when you want to chase neutrals, and if you’re going to add/remove it in tithe future then it was very smart to have it in place for the cleaning runs.

If you’re pursuing flavored whisky, you might even want to remove a plate or two. It’s all personal preference, some people like 2 plates, I personally use 3. Part of the fun of the flute is how many different ways you can set it up to find what you like best.

Nice job on the plumbing, too, that looks great.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby poundtowne » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:55 am

From what I have read anything less than 10 plates will not make a neutral in one run and as Zpata said in this thread
From my reading a few more plates will just be a bit of a no man's land. Too neutral for whiskey, too flavorful for neutral or even vodka.
I think the only good benefit of a 2" packed section would be if your plates and column were stainless and you needed to throw come copper in the vapor path. As far as the dephleg length goes I would read through the flute talk thread. Im sure you will find the answer there. I am surprised at how little water flow to the dephleg is required to run 10% reflux. So i guess it depends on weather your two secions would be detachable or fixed and in either case you would need to decide what you want to produce.[/quote]
I want to produce vodka. I was thinking of doing 6 plates and a 9" section of packed column in the middle of the flute that is modular. My entire column is 4" copper with a ss keg for a boiler. Any advice? Do I need more packed column?
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:59 pm

NChooch had dimensions on his build which was very helpful to me so I would like to do the same.

Here are the dimensions/specs of the build.

8pc Modular Flute

4 Plate Column:
Diameter: 3”
Length: 26"
Distance between plates: 5”
Plate Thickness: .07in
Number of holes/plate: 192ish
Diameter of holes in plates: 1/16”
Open Area of plate .588in2 = 8.6% open space/plate
Downcomer diameter .875 in
Downcomer cups diameter 1.25 in
Height of downcomer over plate .75 in
Plates not fixed, held by 1/4 20 SS rod/nuts
Sight glasses are 2.5” copper to SS ferrule both wrapped in tephlon/no gasket.

Packed Section:
Diameter: 3”
Length: 24”
Plate at both ends with 1/8” holes
Held together by 1/4 20 SS rod/nuts
Packs 165in3 or 2.7 Liters

Dephlegamator:
Diameter: 3”
Length: 8” (excess length to fit ferrules)
7 pc of .5” diameter tubes at 5” each
2pc .25” elbow sweat

Gin Basket:
Diameter 3”
Length: 8”
Sight glasse is 2.5” copper to SS ferrule both wrapped in tephlon/no gasket.

Reducer / Bend
3” to 1.5” Reducer
1.5” 90 to 90 with a 2.75” separation

Shotgun to elbow
Diameter: 1.5”
Length: 24"
5pc of .375” diameter tubes at 23.5 in
2pc of .25” sweat elbows
1.5” to 1” reducer
1” reducer to .71”
Union

Plumbing:
Hose input to splitter with valves on each side
Hose to .25” OD pc
.25” ID / .5” OD reinforced vinyl tubing to shotgun input (bottom) and same tubing to dephleg input (bottom)
Same tubing on shotgun/dephleg output to top of valve spot on shotgun. (.25” to .375” copper on each)
Brass needle valve for each
Back to .3785” to .25” copper
Same hose for output. Each kept separate.
All hose connections done via hose clamp.

Parrot:
.5’ ID tube to 45 to .5”ID tube
45to 90 to 90
.5” to / .75” ID
.75” ID to overflow to .375” collector
.5” SS ball valve for drain soldered to .5” copper tube
Air bleed valve

Solder/Flux:
Stay Silve 15% hard solder for dephleg/shotgun ( no flux )
Oatey Lead free soft solder for joints ( water based oatey solder )
Harris Stay Brite 8 for SS to Copper with Stay Clean liquid flux (kick ass)
Tig weld SS ferrule to keg and thermometer port to keg.


Boiler:
15.5 gal SS Keg
4” ferrule mount
SS thermometer mounted halfway up on side.

All gaskets are PTFE
Column height 6’ 2”

I will report back with info on the first actual run within a week.

End Product.jpg
Pretty and tall.jpg
Top Half.jpg
Thermometer.jpg
Plumbing.jpg
Packing for now.jpg


Im going to do one more sac cleaning run. After the first cleaning run I was not stoked on clean the inside of the column was so I scrubbbed with SS and acetone. Also after polishing/laquer I figure it would be safest do do one more cleaning run. This second sac run is 1 gal of heads + 5 gal of Sweetfeed mash so I will use the experience to better dial in the flute.

I will start by trying to make a good whiskey with plates only ( maybe 4 maybe 3) Then I will see how clean of a neutral it can make by filling both the packed section and the gin basket with ceramics.

So stoked on this build. :D :D :thumbup:
The Yeasty Boyz
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby zapata » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:53 pm

You should be stoked, absolute beauty. And valiantly overcame some difficulties with the build right quickly too.
And good job concisely documenting those specs.
Another thing that I always like to see is a cost breakdown if ya have it.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:08 am

zapata wrote:You should be stoked, absolute beauty.


Thank you. Here is the price break down:


Cost Breakdown:

4 Plate Column:
3” Copper Type L x 26" - Free - Would have cost ($40/ft) = $86.6
Plates - opened up and flattened 1” tube - 16” Length $7.5/ft = $10
Downcomers .875” x 4.75” at $5/ft = $8.3
Downcomer Cups 4 @ $1.5 = $6
1/20 SS threaded rod 36” = $6
SS Nuts = $2
Copper tube for sight glass 2.” x 3” x 4pc at $20/ft = $20
SS Ferrules for sight glass 4pc at $2.5 = $6
Sight glass 4pc at $2.25 = $9
SS Ferrule for 3” = $3.75
Copper grounding wire for ez flange = $2

Packed Section:
3” Copper Type L x 24" - Free - Would have cost ($40/ft) = $80
SS Ferrule for 3” = $3.75
Copper grounding wire for ez flange = $2
Plates - opened up and flattened 1” tube - 8” Length $7.5/ft = $5
1/20 SS threaded rod 36” = $6
Sight glass: $2.25
Ferrule for sight glass taken from keg
SS Ferrule for 3” 1pc = $3.75
Copper grounding wire for ez flange = $2

Dephlegamator:
Diameter: 3” at 8” length Free - Would have cost ($40/ft) = $26.6
Plates - opened up and flattened 2” tube ( for thicker copper ) - 8” Length $7.5/ft = $5
SS Ferrule for 3” 2pc = $7.5
Tubes .5 in 5” length - 7pc at $3/ft = $8.75
1/4” 90 sweat elbows - $4

Gin Basket:
Diameter 3” at 8” length Free - Would have cost ($40/ft) = $26.6
Sight glasse is 2.5” copper to SS ferrule both wrapped in tephlon/no gasket.
Sight glass: $2.25
Ferrule for sight glass taken from keg
SS Ferrule for 3” 1pc = $3.75
Copper grounding wire for ez flange = $2

Reducer / Bend:
3” to 1.5” Reducer - $40
1.5” 90 Elbo x 2 at $6 each = $12
1.5” connector tube 3” = $2
1.5” SS ferrule = $2

Shotgun to elbow:
Diameter: 1.5” at 24” $13/ft - $26
5pc of .375” diameter tubes at 23.5 in - bought 10ft pc = $13
2pc of .25” sweat elbows $4
1.5” to 1” reducer = $5
1” reducer to .71” = $3
Union = $4

Parrot:
45 degree .5” x 2pc = $2
90 degree .5” x 2pc = $2
.5” diameter tube = $2
.75” diameter = scrap
1/4” soft copper (from old wart chiller) = $12

Boiler:
Keg = Free
SS Thermometer = $24
SS Coupler = $5
SS Ferrule 3” = $3.76
5500 W 240VLow Density Heating Element: $27
2000W 12-V Heating Element = $10
Two Housing Pieces= $12
Cord Encloser Pieces = $5
240V Power Cord = $50
120V Power Cord = $12
Two 1” Female Threaded Copper = $20

Everything Else:
PTFE 3” 5pc = $5
PTFE 1.5” = $1
3” Tri Clamp = $7.5
1.5” Tri Clamp = $4.75
Reinforced Vinyl Tubing 2pc = $26
Brass Needle Valves 2pc = $22
Hose Clamps x 8 pc = $8
Hose splitter = $7
Hose to 1/4” OD barb 2 pc = $10
Stay Silve 15% (used a rod more than one pack… bought 2) = $80
Harris Stay Brite Liquid Flux = $8
Harris Stay Brite 8 Solder (1lb) = $64
Oatey Water Soluble Flux + 1 lb Oatey soft solder= $24
SS scurbbers for column: $4
Ceramics for packed section (use lava rock for cheaper medium): $45


4 Plate Column:$156
Packed Section: $105
Dephlegamator: $35
Gin Basket: $35
Reducer / Bend: $56
Shotgun to elbow: $55
Parrot: $18
Boiler: $169
Everything Else: $316

Total: $945
I paid about $725 Holy shit haha. I am not completely surprised but I was aiming for around $500. I also initially planed on keeping it gas powered, no packed section, no gin basket and no fill port.

I wasted a lot of money on solder and flux. I still have 80% of the harris, 60% of the soft solder and a few sticks of the stay silve. So If I only got what I needed I could have purchased just two packs of the $10 Harris kits. I am happy to have excess because I plan on building more in the future. I also spent quite a bit of money making it modular. That was anticipated.

I still need to build a controller for the 240V heating element but that should only be around $50.
I hope this price breakdown will help others plan on their build. I am one of those people that when I have it set in my mind that I am building something no amount of time, or cost of items will stand in my way. I get wicked focused/obsessed and dive head first.

Since the last post I added the two heating elements ( 2000W 120V and 5500W 240 V ) , a SS drain and a fill port on the top. I tested the heat up time with 14gal of water and it took 20min to hit 174 and 30 min to hit 212. Not sure what the times will be with a wash but I will know in a day or two. For this week I am hoping I can use both to get to temp, kill the 5500 W and let the 2000W run. It may be too much heat and if that is the case I will treat the run as a stripping run until I have a controller build for the 240. Ill post pics another day.


As far as the first run went ( gas powered ):

The flavor was great. More than I anticipated. The heads and tails were extremely compressed. The take off speed was an hour and the run lasted 4hrs. With the new heating elements I think the whole run will take 3.5hrs.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby raketemensch » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:24 pm

What’re you using for your cooling water?
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby zapata » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:44 pm

Awesome break down! I keep estimating the big items and telling myself I can do it for under $500, lol. Not a chance when all those little things add up.

Btw, think you blanked on the takeoff rate: "The take off speed was an hour and the run lasted 4hrs"
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby poundtowne » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:43 am

Yeasty, where did you get your ss ferules and sight glasses? I've seen a lot for sale online especially on ebay but I want to make sure I get the right type of glass.
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Re: 3" Flute Build

Postby The Yeasty Boyz » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:41 pm

zapata wrote:Awesome break down! I keep estimating the big items and telling myself I can do it for under $500, lol. Not a chance when all those little things add up.

Btw, think you blanked on the takeoff rate: "The take off speed was an hour and the run lasted 4hrs"


Your right I did space it. I was in a rush and tried to find my notes. I did not write down the collection rate. I mean to say the mash got to a boil in a hr and the total run lasted 4hrs. With the new heating elements the boil takes 30 min to hit. Tomorrow I will build a controller for the 5500 W element.

I did a run yesterday and it turned out that 2000 W was not enough to floood the plates (while collecting.) I was able to run the 5500 w element and flood the plates but felt the heat should have been backed off so I ended up running both elements and doing a stripping run. On top of now knowing the outcome of running each element 100%, I left my proofing hydrometer at a friends house so I was going entirely by taste/feel. That being said the stripping run went extremely quick. Ill have to measure collection rates another time but damn. It felt like I had only a minute or two between quart jars. The drain on the parrot has proven to be extremely useful and i HIGHLY recommend it.

I am also loving using the boiler to make mashes now. The diminished time required to heat water has proven to be exceptionally nice. I will note that If any of you do run two heating elements keep both as close to the bottom as possible. When i ran the first stripping run without a hydrometer i ended up running longer than I should have and exposed the upper 120v 2000w heating elemen to open air. They can burn up running dry. Mine did not fortunately but from now on I will be certain to not pull off more than 4 gal.

Ill post pics of the keg/contoller soon.

PS thought of a shitty distilling joke. What do you call the godliest mash maker/distiller..... MASHIA!
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