CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

VM CM LM Flutes Plate

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CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:06 pm

This is a quick post about my Compound CM Still:

Believe it or not the 1 1/2 in Column works great with a big outside
re-flux coil !

Features:

1. Digital Induction Heating
2. Easy Build External Re-flux Coil
3. Self Contained Cooling System with pump and condenser
4. Easy flow regulating with Needle Valve and Auto Fuel Filter

I can hit total re-flux for hours using the outside coil design because
most of the cooling occurs on the outside walls of the column.
Attachments
cmstill.jpg
CM Still
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby still_stirrin » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:06 pm

Do you get azeo out of it? What type of packing do you use in it?

My gin still looks kinda' like that except it's just a potstill. And I have a shotgun product condenser instead of the Liebig. I can push 10 amps (120VAC) through the hotplate coil, which is 1.2kW (V x A). I'd like to add a reflux condenser to the column top sometime. But I think I'll build a combination LM/VM concentric like I use on my big still.

But your CM certainly looks like it will do the trick. Good job.
ss
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby Still Life » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:47 pm

Beautiful set up.
I like the external coil, and wondered how long it'd be before I saw someone using induction heating.
You put some thought into this design.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:00 pm

Still sterin I don't use any packing because
The coil is 20 turns and I have very fine control of the water flow. But it only works if you use a small diameter. Tall column .
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby still_stirrin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:26 pm

masterguru wrote:... I don't use any packing because the coil is 20 turns and I have very fine control of the water flow. But it only works if you use a small diameter. Tall column .

Now, you know that purification of the vapor is enhanced when the condensate drips back through packing, which when the liquid droplets are reheated by the rising hot vapors, causes the higher volatiles to reboil back up the column. Without packing you're not really fractionating the vapors, only spending a lot of energy and time heating and condensing the rising vapors.

You may be able to get to 170-180 proof without packing given the long time running your reflux condenser. But with packing, you could expect to push the proof upward towards 190+. Packing will help to "stack the fractions", compressing the heads to the front and expanding the hearts section.

Otherwise, your CM stillhead is similar to other CM designs in the way that it functions...you use the coolant's flow to regulate the reflux ratio. A higher flow (better cooling power to balance a greater heat input) which gives more condensate returning down the column than advances towards the product condenser.

Try packing sometime...you'll like what you get.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby Pikey » Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:19 pm

I agree with ss on this one - the packing is quite a big part of the mechanics of reflux. I have a 1" column 40" high and I get a litte passive reflux which adds a few % to my pot still numbers. I've been threatening to wrap a few coils around the outside as you have just to up the % a little more. [Edit perhaps 3-5 turns ?]

Having just written what I did, I believe I'll leave the column unpacked too :thumbup: :lol:

Sometimes we don't want full reflux - just a little more %age in the whiskey ! 8)
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:08 pm

I have used copper scrubbers before, and my external coil design seems to work better without them. I think they
Disrupt my vapor flow from the sides and the vapor collects at the center away from my refulx coil.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby Pikey » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:18 pm

Well your apparatus is clearly well thought out and effective - You are only a 4 post "novice" - ut clearly far better than that in practice - I think with a tall thin column, the loss of heat through the external skin is highly important.

I bow to your superior knowledge and experience of this specialism 8)
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:35 pm

I think a second smaller reflux coil half way below the first coil and the boiler along with a convex copper cone inside between the two would give me the benefits of both the outside coil and the packing...
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby Pikey » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:50 pm

You're getting complicated now - Build an offset head (Recently downgraded to a bokakob) - If you want reflux - this is the beast.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:10 pm

Pikey I will definitely look into the offset head.

Uhh and BTW . Induction is awesome and very safe . I can put 190 proof right on the heating element and nothing happens. It is programmable to the degree.
Lookup Newave induction. It is more efficient that electric stoves and even propane. Can't use it with copper though and don't try the inserts they don't work well.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:27 pm

Since I am new can anyone tell me how to enable notifications of replies to my posts ?

Ohh and does anyone have a link to how an offset head still handles vapor pressure maybe an overview of VM.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby still_stirrin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:08 pm

masterguru wrote:...does anyone have a link to how an offset head still handles vapor pressure maybe an overview of VM.

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=46216
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby still_stirrin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:22 pm

masterguru wrote:I have used copper scrubbers before, and my external coil design seems to work better without them. I think they
Disrupt my vapor flow from the sides and the vapor collects at the center away from my refulx coil.

The reflux coil should be above the packing.

The purpose of the reflux condenser is to condense the rising vapors back into the packing. Then, more rising hot vapors from the boiler reheat the condensate that is covering the surface of the packing causing the higher volatile constituents to reboil once again into vapors. This way, the volatile components are collected at the top of the column while the rest of the vapors liberate the fores and heads from the hearts. This is how "stacking" or fractionating works. It separates the "fractions". Packing is fundamental to this process.

What you're experience is simply boiling and condensing on the column walls, sending vapors up and liquids down the column continuously. It may raise the product proof, but it is not very effective at separating the foreshots and heads from the hearts, which would give you more hearts as the goal.

You may think it's working better without the packing, but while it is working "differently", I'd doubt it really is better at what a reflux still is supposed to do.

Honestly, I doubt if you've changed the processes from the way they've been done for a couple of hundred years. Maybe you have invented a "better tire", but I'd doubt it.
ss
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby StillerBoy » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:23 pm

masterguru wrote:Since I am new can anyone tell me how to enable notifications of replies to my posts ?

Click on "Postreply", then highlight what it is you want to quote in your post, then click on "Quote" in the top right hand corner..

Mars
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby still_stirrin » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:33 pm

masterguru wrote:Since I am new can anyone tell me how to enable notifications of replies to my posts ?

Here, try this:

1) go to your User Control Panel page (upper left hand corner)
2) click on "Board preferences" tab (across the top)
3) click "Edit posting defaults" tab (along the left side of page)
4) click the "Notify me upon replies by default" radio button to Yes

That should get you notification when your postings have been replied to.
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:34 pm

I will do some controlled test with and without packing, I will try to put them low on my column so the vapor can spread out around the sides of it.

I will then post my results of proof and quality of hearts.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:35 pm

Thanks for all the help guys.
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby masterguru » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:41 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
masterguru wrote:Since I am new can anyone tell me how to enable notifications of replies to my posts ?

Here, try this:

1) go to your User Control Panel page (upper left hand corner)
2) click on "Board preferences" tab (across the top)
3) click "Edit posting defaults" tab (along the left side of page)
4) click the "Notify me upon replies by default" radio button to Yes

That should get you notification when your postings have been replied to.
ss


I tried but when I submit the chanages I get an error, strange ?
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Re: CM Compound Still with Better Coolant Management

Postby Swedish Pride » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:40 pm

masterguru wrote:
still_stirrin wrote:
masterguru wrote:Since I am new can anyone tell me how to enable notifications of replies to my posts ?

Here, try this:

1) go to your User Control Panel page (upper left hand corner)
2) click on "Board preferences" tab (across the top)
3) click "Edit posting defaults" tab (along the left side of page)
4) click the "Notify me upon replies by default" radio button to Yes

That should get you notification when your postings have been replied to.
ss


I tried but when I submit the chanages I get an error, strange ?


throw an pm to one of the mods, might be disabled , i got the same error when i tried just now.
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