column Length

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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Canuckwoods
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column Length

Post by Canuckwoods »

Righ now I have a 24" column with about 20" of copper packing in it. I am getting about 80% out of it now. I am in my basement with low ceilings. I can stretch this to a 40" column with 40" of packing is this going to make a big difference? will this affect the heads and tails? how else will it affect my results?
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StillerBoy
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Re: column Length

Post by StillerBoy »

Need more info.. column size 1.5 or 2 or 3" ?? you say 80%, 80% abv or 80% proof ?? the column setup sit on what type of system, pot or LM or VM or CM or CCVM ??

Other than a pot setup, with a 24" column, you should be able to get 90% abv with no issues, at a rate of 2 + L/hr in the body section.. with 36" column you should be able to 95% abv with a rate of over 3 l/hre.. as the rest of your questions, will it affect the results, not really, provided the unit is operated properly..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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frunobulax
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Re: column Length

Post by frunobulax »

It will make a huge difference. It will have more area to compress the fractions. You should be able to get 90 % out of it, depending on how you run it, type of packing, and diameter.
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Bushman
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Re: column Length

Post by Bushman »

frunobulax wrote:It will make a huge difference. It will have more area to compress the fractions. You should be able to get 90 % out of it, depending on how you run it, type of packing, and diameter.
+1, if you want more purity you should go longer than 24".
StillerBoy
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Re: column Length

Post by StillerBoy »

frunobulax wrote:It will make a huge difference.
Not necessary.. the poster is presently having difficult understanding the operation of unit he has.. a 24" column, assuming its 2", properly operated, should give him 92 - 93% percent, and 95% at a slow rate of extraction.. so he's only getting about 80%, means he lacks in operational understand.. extra length in column will improve the abv and rate of take off, only with understanding of the process..
frunobulax wrote:depending on how you run it, type of packing, and diameter.
You are correct in that those item will have effects.. and that's what the poster is lacking in understanding..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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Canuckwoods
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Re: column Length

Post by Canuckwoods »

StillerBoy wrote:Need more info.. column size 1.5 or 2 or 3" ?? you say 80%, 80% abv or 80% proof ?? the column setup sit on what type of system, pot or LM or VM or CM or CCVM ??

Other than a pot setup, with a 24" column, you should be able to get 90% abv with no issues, at a rate of 2 + L/hr in the body section.. with 36" column you should be able to 95% abv with a rate of over 3 l/hre.. as the rest of your questions, will it affect the results, not really, provided the unit is operated properly..

Mars
2 Inch Column
80% ABV 160 Proof
it is a boka LM
How am I not operating it properly? I thought I had read everything but may have missed something. I let it full reflux for 30 minutes then open the valve to about 1-2 drips a second toss the first 250mls and collect the rest in 250ml jars trying to get good cuts.
robdouglas
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Re: column Length

Post by robdouglas »

Canuckwoods wrote:
StillerBoy wrote:Need more info.. column size 1.5 or 2 or 3" ?? you say 80%, 80% abv or 80% proof ?? the column setup sit on what type of system, pot or LM or VM or CM or CCVM ??

Other than a pot setup, with a 24" column, you should be able to get 90% abv with no issues, at a rate of 2 + L/hr in the body section.. with 36" column you should be able to 95% abv with a rate of over 3 l/hre.. as the rest of your questions, will it affect the results, not really, provided the unit is operated properly..

Mars
2 Inch Column
80% ABV 160 Proof
it is a boka LM
How am I not operating it properly? I thought I had read everything but may have missed something. I let it full reflux for 30 minutes then open the valve to about 1-2 drips a second toss the first 250mls and collect the rest in 250ml jars trying to get good cuts.
Either run it even slower to increase percentage or do a strip run first or best is double the height and run at same speed and you should get 95% with good packing with 2400 watt power input.

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Canuckwoods
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Re: column Length

Post by Canuckwoods »

Thanks
I will slow it down I just got a controller so i will use that.
The external element is only 1500w but I can only do 3.5 at a time right now.
I will make a longer column I just picked up the copper mesh.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: column Length

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Yes longer will give you higher ABV and better separation of fractions.
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Yummyrum
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Re: column Length

Post by Yummyrum »

Canuckwoods wrote:Thanks
I will slow it down I just got a controller so i will use that.
The external element is only 1500w but I can only do 3.5 at a time right now.
I will make a longer column I just picked up the copper mesh.
If you turn the power down in a LM Boka you will make matters worse . The ABV or purity comes from the reflux ratio or how much you send back down the packing as reflux verses how much you take off the spout .
If you turn down the power there will be less vapour being produced , If you are taking off the same rate , there will be less reflux left to return to the packing and your ABV or Purity will drop .

So if you want to increase your purity , you can do it by adding more packing ( a longer packed section ) if you are to keep your power and takeoff rate the same as they are now .
Or you could increase the element power up to a safe Max of 2000w ...... More vapour being produced , more reflux returning to packing :thumbup:

Incidentally I used to use a 1380 watt element on a 2" reflux still that was 1 meter of packed scrubbers and I could easily pull just under 1 liter an hour at 96%
I think 1500w is fine :thumbup:
StillerBoy
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Re: column Length

Post by StillerBoy »

Canuckwoods wrote:The external element is only 1500w but I can only do 3.5 at a time right now.
A big part of the issue is with the "external element at only 1500w".. external element do not provide the same amount of heat input as an internal one of the same wattage, because it is in contact with the water.. also stove top element state a rating but they are usually 10% - 15% below that in operation, plus stove top cycle..

To get better reflux, and get a higher proof, plus a faster take off, you need to boost the wattage up.. I reflux from a 2" - 35" column, using between 2100w at refluxing, and move up to 2500w as the run processes from a concentric LM..
Yummyrum wrote:If you turn the power down in a LM Boka you will make matters worse .
And I am in agreement with Yummyrum..
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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Expat
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Re: column Length

Post by Expat »

Could also be the packing, if its too loose most of the reflux is being lost to the boiler.
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zapata
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Re: column Length

Post by zapata »

There is something to be said about more power causing more reflux, but it is just part of the equation. 1 other factor in the equation is vapor speed, and IME more than 2000 watts in a 2" column just blows it through too fast for good separation. 1800 seems perfect to me.
StillerBoy
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Re: column Length

Post by StillerBoy »

I'm in agreement on vapour speed, and finding the right combination, and what the end result it is your are looking for.. the amount of power will varie with each unit.. and it will in large depend on the package used, and how compacted the packing is, will cause a variance, and water flow to the condenser.. that's what is called learning to dial your unit in.. it take many runs, experimenting with varies power setting, packing compacting of varies material, and water flow rate..

Just the other week, I did a run with the same packing, wattage, and water flow rate, as I normally do with this brandy.. about third of the way in, the column started to flood, very little mind you, but still flooding.. after readjusting the power, I was able to finish the run.. after I measure the volume of the lava rocks used, I had 1 inch less in volume than I normally used.. will over time lave rocks wear down in size, therefore compacting more.. you learn something new all the time at this hobby..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
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