I'm hoping to get some quick info, especially from any vapour engineers out there.
I have a design in mind where I actually want to induce the vapour in my column to crash - turn to liquid and drop down where it will siphon out before it hits the heating element.
I plan on injecting the packed column with hot vapour, 60%-70% most likely, in a constant rate, temp and pressure.
A coil dephlagmator on top of the column will be tuned by water temp and flow rate to achieve removal of meths and some heads past the coil (cooling management), refluxing the majority of ethanol back into the column.
My question is, will the increasing vapour density in the column eventually cause it to crash (this is called overloading?) or will I need to set up a sensor to kill the heating element periodically?
Thanks.
Column overload/flooding
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- Evil Wizard
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Column overload/flooding
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Started 2005, went Pro 2017. Federal Excise 51-SL-262.
Re: Column overload/flooding
Maybe I didn't understand, but you want to build (in simple words) a classic reflux column? You don't need to invent anything, there is great info here on the forum.
- Evil Wizard
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Re: Column overload/flooding
Hi Demy, sorry, you didn't understand.
I've built hundreds of columns. Sold them in fact.
"I actually want to induce the vapour in my column to crash"
I've built hundreds of columns. Sold them in fact.
"I actually want to induce the vapour in my column to crash"
Work is the curse of the drinking class. "Would you like some water?" "No thanks, I'm Irish."
Louchebag Absintheur, Apostolic Alcoholic, Whisky Icarus, Bathtub Alchemist.
Started 2005, went Pro 2017. Federal Excise 51-SL-262.
Louchebag Absintheur, Apostolic Alcoholic, Whisky Icarus, Bathtub Alchemist.
Started 2005, went Pro 2017. Federal Excise 51-SL-262.
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Re: Column overload/flooding
I read this as sending the vapour to the top of the column without sending it via the packing. The condensate would return to the boiler via the packing but without mingling with any vapour that would otherwise be rising up through the packing? Yeah nah, I can see how that won’t work.
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- ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: Column overload/flooding
I think if you get your column (packing or plates) into equilibrium, and then add additional vapor from a second source, it would act no different than if you just turned up the heat and added more vapor the ol' traditional way. It will just flood. Then, to counter act this, you want to cut your power stability intermittently.
The real question is what do you hope to achieve from all this? On the outside it sounds extremely over complicated for no apparent benefit than to say you built something different.
The real question is what do you hope to achieve from all this? On the outside it sounds extremely over complicated for no apparent benefit than to say you built something different.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
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You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
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Re: Column overload/flooding
Evil Wizard wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:01 pm I'm hoping to get some quick info, especially from any vapour engineers out there.
I have a design in mind where I actually want to induce the vapour in my column to crash - turn to liquid and drop down where it will siphon out before it hits the heating element.
this sounds a bit like Liquid management? Will this siphoned out liquid be finished product?
I plan on injecting the packed column with hot vapour, 60%-70% most likely, in a constant rate, temp and pressure.
A coil dephlagmator on top of the column will be tuned by water temp and flow rate to achieve removal of meths and some heads past the coil (cooling management), refluxing the majority of ethanol back into the column.
this sounds like the type of system used to clean up fuel grade ethanol where by column bottoms is the finished product and the undesirable constituents are bled off of the top of the apparatus? What is your intended function for your design? What kind of tool are you wanting to build?
My question is, will the increasing vapour density in the column eventually cause it to crash (this is called overloading?) or will I need to set up a sensor to kill the heating element periodically?
killing heat input will kill your gradient. No gradient=no fractionation. On a continuous feed system you'd manage feed rate to control plate behavior and keep btu/watt input steady. I would imagine you'll need to control the feed rate of your injection? However the heat source for the hot vapor injection should be independent of the constant heat input needed to maintain your gradient in the column imo. Any interruption in the heat needed to maintain the column will make the system very temperamental. Are there multiple columns on this system?
Thanks.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
Re: Column overload/flooding
Here is an example of a system with 3 columns. Each column has it's own reboiler so heat input can be tuned to that column's specific requirements.
You can see that column #3 shows the finished product as bottoms. Vapor off the top is the undesirable.
Each column acts to basically scrub the shit out of dirty ethanol molecules.
You can see that column #3 shows the finished product as bottoms. Vapor off the top is the undesirable.
Each column acts to basically scrub the shit out of dirty ethanol molecules.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
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Re: Column overload/flooding
Good point Larry. Didn't think to consider the multiple column application. It came off as intending to create that system in a one column set up.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
Re: Column overload/flooding
Yes it did. Based on the info within the question, I would say getting a single column to behave or otherwise be a superior design that does stuff a more conventional design cant do is a no go.ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:26 am Good point Larry. Didn't think to consider the multiple column application. It came off as intending to create that system in a one column set up.
But the poster's question doesn't have enough information to understand what he is actually trying to accomplish.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.