Help with build a reflux column

[furax]

Hi peeps
I thought I made a reflux column but after reading allot in here it seems like I made a pot still. I made a copper column of 80mm and about 90 cm high and packed it with ceramic tubes. But not Anny type of condenser in the column. Connected with a liebig condenser. I'm using it for a few years now and it works really well I get around 89 percent alcohol out of it. But I want to get it higher to get neutral spirit. So u want to mod my still what kind of still do u guys recommend?
Also I'm getting some stuff together to make me a modular still with a 42mm copper pipe what kind of reflux is best to make out of the 42mm pipe? I know bigger diameter of pipe is better but I don't have any the only pipe I have other than the 42mm is a 100 mm pipe. Thankx in advance

[furax]

[Demy]

Hi, for a distiller reflux you need to have a system on top that creates reflux, there are several systems with similar names to VM (vapor management), LM (liquid management), CM (cooling management) and some variations of these. My advice is to look at CCVM, simple and effective, so you can decide whether to modify your current system or create a new one.

[still_stirrin]

Demy gave you the “tip of the iceberg” reply. So, I’m gonna try to add to that.

For a column to be effective for reflux (condensing, reboiling, recondensing, reboiling, etc.) you need a reflux condenser. There are many types and styles of reflux condensers. Old style coolant managed (CM) stills used cross tubes through the column to create the condensation. A little newer design, and more effective, is the dephlegmator, a “shotgun” style multi-tube condenser in the column between the boiler and the vapor take off to the product condenser. The deflag is a common feature in plated stills (also CM still). CMs are good for flavored spirits because they don’t operate with very high reflux ratios.

Another reflux design is the liquid managed (LM) reflux design where the liquid product off take is used to regulate the reflux ratio. LM designs are capable of very high purity product, but they are notorously slow. The slow production rate is due to this designs high reflux ratio capability.

The newest design of reflux still is the vapor managed (VM) reflux still. You control the reflux ratio by the split of vapor between the outlet (product condenser) and the reflux condenser for sending back down the column. The advantage of this design is that the vapor split ratio is independent of the rate of vapor production. So, you don’t need to adjust the heat input or cooling water flow to maintain a high reflux ratio, and the corresponding amplification of the purity of the spirit. It is somewhat “self-managed” once you set the VM valve.

Now, the newest design VM stillhead uses a coolant coil for reflux and the vapor split. It is a CCVM, a condenser controlled vapor management still. It works like the classic VM (with a valve in the vapor off take line) and a CM (where the coolant flow regulates the condenser’s knockdown). The CCVM is a stable operator once adjusted properly. It can be tricky to balance the heat load and product throughput. But this design has the least parts and is probably the most economical to build. It is indeed “the newest face” on the scene.

So, modifying your potstill into a reflux column may be more involved than building another discrete stillhead. Besides, the potstill should always be a tool in the hobby distiller’s tool chest. I’d recommend reading and building a reflux column to add to your equipment instead of trying to change what you got!
ss

[furax]

Hi guys thanks for the explanation.
So basically if I want to make a ccvm I can unscrew the top of my potstill and get a reflux condensor into the top?

[still_stirrin]

Furax, the last photo does not look like the potstill photos you posted previously. Are you trying to “punk” us?
ss

[furax]

It's the same still u can see it on the 1st photo but it is blurry. On the 2nd photo was when I finished 1st time but I adjusted it with a cap on it that I could remove to better clean it out.

[StillerBoy]

Another reflux design is the liquid managed (LM) reflux design where the liquid product off take is used to regulate the reflux ratio. LM designs are capable of very high purity product, but they are notorously slow. The slow production rate is due to this designs high reflux ratio capability.

SS.. you may want to update your data base on LM's.. as it is misleading to group all LM are "notoriously" slow.. that would applies to the slanted plates built such as boka style, but the concentric design is far from being slow, and is as versatile as the VM in its operation..

I'm using it for a few years now and it works really well I get around 89 percent alcohol out of it. But I want to get it higher to get neutral spirit.

The suggested reflux designs provided for improving the abv are all good.. unfortunately.. what has been omitted is that a reflux column design alone will not give you a higher abv than what you are presently attaining.. what has not been stated is an efficient packing material is also required.. and the best materials are lava rocks of 1/4" to 5/16" in size for a 3" column, as well as glass marbles of 8 - 10mm size..

Mars

[furax]

What is a concentric lm?

[StillerBoy]

What is a concentric lm?

The concept for the concentric was first brought to the members attention by "johnh89" back in 08.. it is unfortunate that the original pictures were lost went the site was upgraded a year or so back, but there still a few pictures further into the thread..
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... =16&t=8046

Then member "rad1470", (a missed member) furthered the development of the concept..
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36382

And then other members furthered the development and usage, as I view it as one of the best all around reflux column, having experience the other designs over the yrs..
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 50&t=42206

Enjoy the history and learning..

Mars

[zapata]

SS.. you may want to update your data base on LM's.. as it is misleading to group all LM are "notoriously" slow.. that would applies to the slanted plates built such as boka style, but the concentric design is far from being slow, and is as versatile as the VM in its operation..

LOL, SB, you may want to update your data base on bokas as it is misleading to group all bokas as "notoriously" slow. That would apply to people who run them slowly, but the design itself is far from being slow, they are as fast their operators want them to be.

With the valve wide open it's virtually identical in function to the OP's not really reflux still.

[furax]

I don't really get the concentric lm build. It looks like a liebigcondensor that is connected straight to the boiler.

[StillerBoy]

I don't really get the concentric lm build.

You ask what was a concentric LM.. and were provided with 3 threads outlining the building and operation of the concentric..

Now you state that you don't get the concentric build.. from the statement it would indicate a lack of understanding and comprehension of what a reflux column is, and lack of understanding of vapor behavior management in the operation of a reflux column setup..

You may want to re-read the threads again, and also research on how a reflux column work and what is all required to operate one..

You may want to start with this one, as it outline the basic well, and there are others are other threads as well..
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 63&t=13265

Mars

[furax]

I kinda get how the reflux column is working and the vapor control.
I just meant I don't fully understand how they build the concentric reflux. It looks like 3 pipes running in each other. It confuses me a bit. I think that the photos in the 1st post that didn't make the site upgrade where more useful explaining the build. English isn't my forainge language so sometimes it is hard to understand somthing my exuses for that. That's the reason why I'm asking some information in here to get some help to understand some things thought that was the whole meaning of tis forum correct me if il wrong. I already read the beginner posts of how cm vm and lm columns are working and the difference between them. I'm not just coming in here asking stuff I don't read in that would be a stupid thing.

[furax]

Okey I think I got it I just was confused about the 3 pipes.
Corect me if I'm wrong. It's basically just a liebigcondensor going straight up but on the bottem where you connect it to the column is the smallest pipe Dia that only gets up a little in the condensor so the condensed vapor can collect to the takeoff valve and can overflow back into the column.

[furax]

And the condensor stays open at the top

[StillerBoy]

Corect me if I'm wrong. It's basically just a liebigcondensor going straight up but on the bottem where you connect it to the column is the smallest pipe Dia that only gets up a little in the condensor so the condensed vapor can collect to the takeoff valve and can overflow back into the column.

I've attached a picture of a 2" build that I provide to others who have interest in building the concentric LM.. the unit is a 3 part setup, the RC, the vapor throat body, and column.. relatively easy to build once it's understood..

The vapor throat body is the most important section in the build.. this my help you better understand the design..

Mars

[furax]

Okey have a few more questions the blue lines have to be shut off I guess to prevent cooling water running into the vapor pad and do the orange lines need to be soldered?

[StillerBoy]

Okey have a few more questions the blue lines have to be shut off I guess to prevent cooling water running into the vapor pad and do the orange lines need to be soldered?

On the blue lines yes.. on the orange lines yes..

Mars

VTB top end side "cup"

VTB bottom end side

vapor throat body

a complete 2" concentric

top end of condenser

bottom end of condenser

[furax]

Nice soldering job. I think I get it now but the vapor troath body and the condensor aren't soldered together but just get placed on top of each other?and that extra hole in the vtb is that to place the temperature meter? And do u seal the condenser and the vtb off with somthing when ur running it? And the copper wire around the inner tube of the condenser does it need to fit tightly against the outer tube of the condensor. Sorry for all the questions and thanks allot for the help mate.

[StillerBoy]

The pictures in the previous are from one of the first units I built over 7 yrs back which I use on weekly bases.. today's built use ferrules and tri clamp for jointing throat body to column instead of a slip joint as shown in picture.. and yes the condenser just slide into the top part of the throat body.. the coil around the inner tube of the condenser is 1/4" refrigeration copper tube, wrap tightly and soldered in place..

I can answer all your question plus guidance on how to build one..
Just PM me if still interested..

Mars

VTB before assemble

Condenser before assemble