condensor idea

Anything cooling/condenser related.

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whisky bent 44
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condensor idea

Post by whisky bent 44 »

I have a relatively small condensor. Its a 17 gallon plastic tub with rope handles and it has a 20' x 1/2" copper worm. I have come to learn that the surface gets hot befor the water in the bottom does so i found it best to feed my water in from the bottom and i made a drain that doubles as an over flow in the top this helps keep the heat at bay and keeps the run off out of my product. And the water is fed from a garden hose with a plastic control valve. But after all this i found that a few 1gallon blocks of ice will maintain my temp just fine and its easier on the water bill. But if i forget to make ice this is a nice thing to fall back on. I monitor my condensor temp as well as my still temp with a daul probe wireless bbq thermometer. That gives me some freedom of movement. This is a little more of how i do it. It works for me and maybe help one of u.
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Bigbob
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Re: condensor idea

Post by Bigbob »

You have the right idea in having cold water going in at the bottom,hot out the top. But adding ice can cause shock cooling, it's better to have the water at the top fairly hot and have a gradient towards the bottom where it is cool. It doesn't have to be ice cold.
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Bushman
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Re: condensor idea

Post by Bushman »

When I ran my VM still I recycled water in a large garbage can and saved about 4 one gallon milk jugs filled with water that I froze. When the surface water started warming up I added on of the ice jugs at a time and when it melted added another. I personally think that it allowed me to recycle the water longer before syphoning part of it out and adding more (usually had to do this once or twice during a run). With a large container of water and adding a small amount of ice in a plastic milk container will not create shock. If the whole tub was filled with ice then I believe this shock is highly likely to happen.
whisky bent 44
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Re: condensor idea

Post by whisky bent 44 »

Right on bushman thats pretty much what i do. I used to use milk jugs but now i use ice cream buckets they stack better in the freezer and they dont break open as often. I see what ur saying big bob i use one probe of my thermometer to monitor my condensor. I actually had one boil o. Me once and vapors was building when i got there. I know never leave a still un attended i thought i was ok to eat dinner. But any way i went bigger and started useing 2 blocks of ice and even with 2 i stay between 63 and 70. If it hits 70 i turn the bottom up n that usually lowers my top temp pretty quick. My probe floats in a peice of styrofoam. I think im safe from shocking. But im glad u mentioned that ill have to remember that incase i get any more crazy ideas
Greig56
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Re: condensor idea

Post by Greig56 »

I had to get in here to ask! What sort of a pump or pump system are you using? I thought my system was complete but read my pump would only lift water 1M or 3' which for a 7-8 ft requirement won't cut the mustard!!
What's enough to use for a pump?
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myles
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Re: condensor idea

Post by myles »

Ok, first ice in a worm condenser is not good. It works but it goes against the ideal situation which is a temperature gradient. Cold at the bottom and hot at the top. This is your basic counterflow concept. Cold water in at the bottom and warm out at tne top.

As for pumps i strongly recommmend you forget about pond pumps. These are limited in use. Instead go for an irrigation pump. I use a small water butt pump. Not a monster, it just provides enough pressure to run sprinklers or a greenhouse irrigation system. HOZELOCK butt pump but there are alternatives.

2200 litres per hour or 11 meter head height, pressurise your supply to 1 barr. A good pump gives you the ability to have independent flow control on each condenser. That is a GOOD thing.
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Re: condensor idea

Post by rad14701 »

As myles alluded to, ice in a flake stand is not a good thing... However, ice in a water reservoir where the water is pumped throughout the cooling circuit is a non-issue... Shock cooling, due to the use of ice, has to be considered in the right context... But there can be such a thing as shock cooling even a reflux column if too much super-cooled water is pumped through the reflux condenser as it can cause excessive vapor collapse at the top of the packed column...
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Bushman
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Re: condensor idea

Post by Bushman »

I miss read the OP, when he was talking about water in and out didn't realize it was a flake stand and not a reservoir so I stand corrected.
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Appalachia-Shiner
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Re: condensor idea

Post by Appalachia-Shiner »

Not trying to be Funny here, but what is wrong with ...shock cooling...after all it just makes a gas a liquid¿???
I suppose there is some good reason, I just don't know what it is. Thanks
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still_stirrin
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Re: condensor idea

Post by still_stirrin »

Appalachia-Shiner wrote:Not trying to be Funny here, but what is wrong with ...shock cooling...after all it just makes a gas a liquid¿???
I suppose there is some good reason, I just don't know what it is. Thanks
You'll lose stability. The product will push out vapor, then collapse allowing more vapor to push through. It'll pulse instead of steadily condense. Avoid it by slowing the boiler...slowing production.
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Re: condensor idea

Post by rad14701 »

Appalachia-Shiner wrote:Not trying to be Funny here, but what is wrong with ...shock cooling...after all it just makes a gas a liquid¿???
I suppose there is some good reason, I just don't know what it is. Thanks
Huffing... Surging... We've covered shock cooling... Some folks seem to think it doesn't exist but that's only because they have never experienced it so they can't wrap their head around the concept... Worst case scenario is that it can cause partial or total collapse of the vapor within the boiler... That is what causes huffing and surging... Both pot stills and reflux columns can suffer from premature vapor collapse caused by shock cooling...
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Re: condensor idea

Post by Jacksonbrown »

'Shock Cooling' eh? It sounds like a flooded outlet from an under sized worm.
Have you got a link to the parent site?
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Danespirit
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Re: condensor idea

Post by Danespirit »

rad14701 wrote:As myles alluded to, ice in a flake stand is not a good thing... However, ice in a water reservoir where the water is pumped throughout the cooling circuit is a non-issue... Shock cooling, due to the use of ice, has to be considered in the right context... But there can be such a thing as shock cooling even a reflux column if too much super-cooled water is pumped through the reflux condenser as it can cause excessive vapor collapse at the top of the packed column...
+1 Rad..
It's also the reason i never understood why some want a giant refluxcoil, just to make a phasechange from vapor to liquid.
A small coil can do the job.

+1 Bushman...i use my sink as a reservoir, in the summertime i have a seperate bucket with a 2 L milkcanister filled with frozen water.
It siphones to the sink via a siliconehose, just using Archimedes law of corresponding vats.
It works really well and keeps waterconsumption to a minimum, without the risk of shock cooling.
pulsetech
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Re: condensor idea

Post by pulsetech »

Vapour collapse is real. I have seen my boiler rock back and forth an up to an inch. That's pretty scary when it weighs over 100kgs with a full charge and sits flat on a concrete floor. No flooded outlet here either. My smallest diameter is 3/4 I'd
myles
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Re: condensor idea

Post by myles »

Actually that was a valid comment posted a bit higher up by Danespirit.

The answer is that the bigger worm is NOT just condensing the vapour. It is also acting as a product cooler - hence the desire for the thermal gradient in the water bath.
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