Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

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Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:33 pm

Just built a Graham condenser for the Magic Flute, this will complete the build of this still. LWTCS was building the same time as I was, but I guess he beat me to posting, anyway here it is.
This is the main 3" body with a control manifold on the water output.
001.JPG

I offset the water input so it would have a swirling action around the coil.
002.JPG

The coil is 3/8" annealed copper, it was easier to wind than I had imagined, I hard soldered a 90 degree to each end to align the tails central. Hard solder is a pig to work with when you only have a Mapp torch, probably easier with oxy.
003.JPG

Here's the condenser mounted to the column.
004.JPG

A bit more work to do yet but I have had enough for the day, I have to hard plumb lines in from the manifold valve to the dephlagmater, and run the water return lines. Also I have to finish the spirit takeoff and fit a parrot to it.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby Mud Mechanik » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:13 am

OD, you are a copper magician!!! Looking good. MM
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby WalkingWolf » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:22 am

Looks real good OldDog. You produce some of the finest copper work out there. Keep it up.
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby kiwistiller » Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:47 am

OD, why don't you move to NZ so I can try to get you making stuff for me? It's just across the ditch.... legal.... do it....
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby LWTCS » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:01 am

Hey OD.

Give us a bit more narrative about your cooling management (please).
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:30 pm

LWTCS wrote:Give us a bit more narrative about your cooling management (please).

Nothing too complicated, just two valves on the output of the graham condenser, one to control the flow to the dephlagmater, the other to control the throughput of the graham condenser.
I will be doing the rest of the plumbing today, I will post a pic when done.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby LWTCS » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:33 pm

Will you have fresh (Cool ) water to the graham and fresh water to the dephlag?

BTW, I like the way you off set your nipples. Wish I had done that.
I was going to pack my dephlag and Graham with a bit of mesh to create turbulance.
But just punked out as I figgered the 4" jacket would make up for the lack of engineering.

BTW, the phase II part of the tower is a heavy ass bastard. Giving me second thoughts.

One could bludgeon One's enemies with them fittings.
Last edited by LWTCS on Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:36 pm

No the output from the graham will feed the dephlagmater. I could do it the other way but I would then need a dual system, pumps etc.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby LWTCS » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:42 pm

I could not get the dog dish to put the tower into 100% reflux with out a fresh batch of cool water.
So I planned on plumbing the new dephlag similarly.
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:49 pm

If I increase the flow to the dephlag to achieve 100% reflux, nothing will be coming out of the graham, as I will be able to divert all of the graham cooling output to the dephlag. I had this type of setup in my first trial using plastic garden reticulation bits and pieces, the system I am using on the Graham condenser is just a refinement with better control valves mounted on the condenser for better access.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby LWTCS » Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:54 pm

Good call.
Recon I'll plumb the fresh water to the dephlag first.
The graham should have plenty of knock down power with a bit of the recycled water and the vapor temp will be greatly reduced because of the dephlag.
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:02 pm

I would personnally go the other way round as the output cooling from the graham will be cool when achieving 100% reflux as the graham will be in passive mode not knocking down anything , whereas the output from the dephlag is quite hot.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby LWTCS » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:06 pm

I see your point. I just figured that as long as the 3/8 can keep up, the Graham is gonna have a bunch of knock down power.

Looks like doing it both ways is in order to fully conclude what the coolest distillate temp will be with my set up.
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:34 am

I have just finished the final setup, LWTCS you can now see the flow path for both the Graham condenser and the dephlagmater.
001.JPG
The valves will control the water supply to each condenser.
This is a rear view showing the feed to the dephlagmater.
002.JPG

I guess thats my still building finished for a while, its time to stop soldering and start fermenting a bit more.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby rad14701 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:30 am

Very well thought out, olddog... I'm really liking that build...
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:37 pm

rad14701 wrote:Very well thought out, olddog... I'm really liking that build...

Thanks Rad I appreciate your comments, I think this design is going to stay with me,as I can now dial in whatever ABV I want to either get neutral or flavour in the one still just by adjusting the cooling to either the dephlagmater or the Graham condenser with the manifold control system.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby LWTCS » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:42 pm

Yeah Mike,
The organization on this rig is friggin sweat.

Picked up a bunch more set up (and clean up I recon) time on my operation.
How bout U?
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:56 pm

Yes I know where you are coming from Larry, I spent all day yesterday fitting and refining the plumbing of this rig, it's going to feel a bit quiet now everything is done.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby fireballmatt » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:08 pm

Figure I'm coming a bit late to this party, but that's quite a bit of gorgeous copper you've got showing there.

I was wondering if you had a thread showing the build of the main column...I'm guessing there are plates in there?
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:23 pm

Here's the link to the column build. viewtopic.php?p=6834790#p6834790



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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby Kiwi-lembic » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:30 pm

Nice stuff Olddog ..much to digest ...

And Kiwi ...the coppers are out, bit cold pickin the thing up today but think i may of started somethin goin anyway ..ya know the ol Kiwi engenuity bud ..shes rampent round here lol
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15931
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby TheMechwarrior » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:14 am

olddog that is one truly inspiring piece of functional art!
I love it and it's now my desktop image to motivate me to greatness! http://homedistiller.org/forum/download/file.php?id=4575&mode=view

Once I've finished my stainless build I will be very keen to have a go at building that beauty.

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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby rockchucker22 » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:02 am

olddog wrote:I have just finished the final setup, LWTCS you can now see the flow path for both the Graham condenser and the dephlagmater.
001.JPG
The valves will control the water supply to each condenser.
This is a rear view showing the feed to the dephlagmater.
002.JPG

I guess thats my still building finished for a while, its time to stop soldering and start fermenting a bit more.


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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby Samohon » Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:12 am

Yep, this is one of the classic builds here a HD, a treat to look at and read....

Well done OD, inspiring to say the least.... :D
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby RyanS » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:43 am

I could be being totally thick here, but I'd really like to understand this design. I annotated your pic to explain my question.

1. If valve #2 controls the product/graham condenser thoughput, is there a specific reason why it couldn't go on the cold inlet where I indicated "could go here?". Is that because if it were to go on the inlet you would not have independent control of the deplagamebob?

2. ok, so valve #1 controls the amount of cooling going to the dephlagamebob (I like calling it that :D ), I get that, but what you need valve #3 for, if valve #1 already controls dephlagamebob throughput?

3. the green & purple paths, in case I'm completely misunderstanding the cooling flow?

4. dephagamater is that just another name for 'reflux condenser'? and if I understand correctly, it could be a jacket, coil or shotty??

-----------
More generally ( and feel free to boot my post out to flute talk) -

5. Sorry to quote you for the purposes of my question.. kiwistiller, "I would strongly recommend avoiding these designs if you are building. The CM is generally regarded as an inferior design." (Basic Overview of Common Reflux Designs). I'm sure there is a reason completely beyond my knowledge as to why flutes are CM, but now I'm really confused.

6. OD, I can't remember where I saw a comment ( I think it was yours). Something to the effect of without sight glasses (on one of your plated still) you could never tell if you where 'taking off' ethanol from the correct plate. If a look at something like a cristian carl still http://www.brewing-distilling.com/page2 ... -full.html it has output tubes above each of the plates , yet your design doesn't, so how do you control at which level you take the output from, if all the condensate comes out of the same tube after having been through every plate?

I guees I am assuming the concept is like this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesi ... lation.gif you open the second valve you get 'deisel', third you get 'kerosene'.

This all comes down to "Can I ditch the sight glasses in my design?" I'm honestly not concerned about the wow factor of sight glasses in my design.
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby Grumpy365 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:46 am

Bumping an old thread.

Olddog, have you been happy with this design? Is there anything you would do different?

I see 2 pipes that confuse the living sh*t out of me. One pipe is on the condenser, one is on the flute. Your pipes pass thru them. I have about convinced myself you installed them to support the pipe. What are they? Do they support the pipe or are they capped on both ends? do they have any function?

your builds have inspired me and I am planning my build. It will be vary similar to your diesign and I am trying to understand as much as I can.

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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:48 pm

Grumpy365 wrote:Olddog, have you been happy with this design? Is there anything you would do different?

I have now changed the condenser to a shotgun type with a 2"shell and 4 1/2" vapor tubes going through, which will knock down everything, the larger Graham condenser was a bit of an overkill.
Grumpy365 wrote:I see 2 pipes that confuse the living sh*t out of me. One pipe is on the condenser, one is on the flute. Your pipes pass thru them.

There as two pipes coming out of the condenser, the top pipe is the coolant output of the product condenser, the bottom pipe is only to support the valves and has no other function.
The latest Flute Mk11 build has only one three way valve, which directs the output of the product condenser to either the dephlegmater for flute mode, or to drain for potstill mode.
Her is the three way configuration on Flute Mk11 viewtopic.php?p=6901643#p6901643



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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby Grumpy365 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:41 pm

olddog wrote:I have now changed the condenser to a shotgun type with a 2"shell and 4 1/2" vapor tubes going through, which will knock down everything, the larger Graham condenser was a bit of an overkill.



OD

Is overkill a bad thing?






Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, did the "overkill" affect the output of your spirits negatively?

Was it just an overkill due to it's size and related material expense?

I REALLY appreciate your advice.
(I have quite a bit of 3" at the moment, and was planning on setting some aside for your Graham design).
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Re: Graham condenser for the Magic Flute

Postby olddog » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:44 pm

Grumpy365 wrote:Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, did the "overkill" affect the output of your spirits negatively?
None whatsoever.
Grumpy365 wrote:Was it just an overkill due to it's size and related material expense?
Yes, this is why I built the shotgun alternative with a 2"casing. You could always use the 3"you have for a 3"shotgun. :D


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