Hifrom non brewer

New to distillation, or simply new to the HD forums.
** Your first post MUST go here. Introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your interest in distilling. Any posts asking distilling questions will be deleted. **

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Hifrom non brewer

Post by LG11 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:10 am

Hi, I joined because of a couple of posts, However I failed to read the writing that said I have to post here first! I am most sorry for my fo par.
I am a Brit and I dont brew (well not exactly). I am I work for a Biotechnology company that is doing work for some Scottish distilleries. I am currently do some research into yeast that isnt connected to the distillery work, My own research is actually based around making most of the things you would try and not have in your drink! But I see an opportunity for a share of information, also if there is anyone else here from the UK I would love to here from you.
My posts will probably be from a science view point and based upon my test via Gas chromatography etc of many many samples from both industrial and home brewers.
Anyway I will post more info as I go along.
Nice too meet you all.

User avatar
Bushman
Global moderator
Posts: 15027
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by Bushman » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:04 am

Welcome, I for one would be interested in some of the information that you find relevant and wish to share as I love the science behind the hobby. We have several members from the UK hope they pop in to say hello!

heartcut
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2781
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:31 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by heartcut » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:08 am

Welcome. That sounds very interesting, looking forward to your posts.
heartcut

We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.

W. H. Auden

User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 6590
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by HDNB » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:38 am

welcome to the forum.
you can probably get some participation for GC tests, with samples of tried &true recipes...would be great to post some actual lab results. there are a few on the site, but you really have to dig for them.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.

LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by LG11 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:11 am

I have seen some of the test results, however it was clear from the report what testing method/methods were used, from one I would guess low end Gas Chromotography.
The one I looked at was in a sticky!! I would have loved a sample of that strain of yeast!
Straight forward lab reports using high end equipment such as a HP 897XX series Gas Chromatograph and elmer perking mass spectrometer, I can offer free in exchange for some of the yeast (5-20ml) from the bottom of the vessel. The reports will generally be more detailed than the ones I have seen, this is mainly because our company protocol calls for us to supply the actual graph obtained from the GC and MS as well as a full written report of each peak.
I am also more than happy to run some laboratory experiments for you to prove/disprove some therorise or just to try some new things out if you wish. I have several Phillip harris fermentation vessels and control units sitting ideal i could use (1 litre volume), I also have a environmental chamber sitting empty as well.
If anyone wants some technical how tos written with pictures let me know, for example the correct way to make Agar plates and to plate up yeast and isolate single populations.
I have seen the post using alginate for immobilizing yeast, it was a great try and so nearly there! I could do a pictured post on the process and show you how to get the best from it, for example there are reagents you can add that will tell you when the alginate balls are no longer viable, this uses a reagent that yeast can metabolize, as long as they metabolize it there is no colour change to the ball, however when they are no longer viable the stain permeates to the outer membrane and turns it red/orange.
I also noticed that some attempts has issues with yeast coming adrift, on reading through it became clear that the washing process wasnt robust. depending on which process you choose, it is common to was the alginate balls in 5% hydrochloric acid for 6 mins, then wash in a low concentration solution (1%) sodium carbonate, then finally distilled water.
The laboratory method of preparing the balls is normally to pull a capillary tube using a bunsen burner or propane torch, the ideal ball size is between 0.6mm -2mm in diameter. the process can easily be automated using a glass jar and aquarium pump with the air flow rate controlled via a small aquarium air valve on the inlet.
The capillary tube is then connected via silicon tubing from the jar to the tube and suspended over the hardening bath, its possible to get drip rates of around 1000 drips per min, or in other terms to make 1000 balls per min with little effort.
In the lab it is also common to add the main nutrients to the alginate, the reason for doing this is connected with the different respiration pathways that yeast use to produce the goodies.
Our head of department has over 35 years experience as a biologist and has written many papers and articles on fermentation. Although like me he dosnt actually drink!
I also look forward to debunking a myths that seem to abound.

User avatar
Mikey-moo
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:54 am

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by Mikey-moo » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:45 am

Always good to see more UK folk on here. Welcome aboard :-)

Industry City distillery in Brooklyn, New York, use yeast suspended in alginate. I'm tempted to try it but on the very small scale I'm using doesn't really seem worth the effort. Interesting nonetheless though!
Best place to start for newbies - click here - Courtesy of Cranky :-)

If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!

LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by LG11 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:16 am

I might do I post tonight or in the next few days on immobilizing yeast, it isnt difficult and if done correctly can give you results far beyond what normal brewing can.
With yeast its important to remember that they can use more than one respiration pathway to produce ethanol, the pathway used by the organism dictates what the products are that it produces and in what proportions. The practice of immobilizing gives you much more precise control on how the organism respires, therefore you have much greater control on the products of its respiration.
The process itself can be pretty simple with a little planning and some creativity in the workshop. It really isnt difficult to do and the results can be well worth the effort, where it pays the biggest dividends in is the situation where you find yourself with you best ever brew. By using the same yeast balls and keeping the recipe constant you can replicate the brew time after time. This is partly how some of the huge industrial brewing companies manage a consistent product (that and a few other tricks).
It also make constant batch process easy to implement, add in a vacuum pump and you can cut distilling costs by a fair bit.

User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 6590
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by HDNB » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:37 pm

Hi Again LG,

you are making this sound interesting...but way over my head. can you dumb it down a bit?

there is a topic that i'm sure would suit your expertise better than here in the welcome centre. I'll be watching to learn more there. (see below)

if you want to PM an address, i can send you a sample of a 10 month old yeast colony i have been working with and a sample of their purified byproducts if you like. with or w/o oak... :D

yeast stuff goes here:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=39
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.

User avatar
phillmystill
Swill Maker
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:57 am
Location: Derbyshire, England

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by phillmystill » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:10 am

Hi LG, welcome to HD!

I'm also from the UK, great to have another one around. :thumbup:

I think it's really cool that you have decided to give of your time, join up and share your knowledge with us.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
― Mae West

LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by LG11 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:27 am

Hi
yes sorry I will try and make the material fit most people, with that in mind I will post some the basic star points like how yeast actually does what it does! I am always after new yeast strains!.
Joining was a easy decision, home brewers on the whole have an adventurous nature and a bit like aquarium guys they know there stuff and love talking about it. For me I am interested in finding out how to replicate what you would call a bad batch. Also when I start posting a series on yeast and tell you how it actually gets on the fruit in the first place, you realize why wild strains differ within a 2 mile radius (sometime less).

LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by LG11 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:12 am


User avatar
moosemilk
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:47 am

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by moosemilk » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:04 am

You've got my interest. Being relatively new to all of this, I'm looking forward to learning more about the little workers that are the basis of our hobby.

User avatar
WooTeck
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1774
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:37 am
Location: scotland

Re: Hifrom non brewer

Post by WooTeck » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:15 am

HDNB wrote:Hi Again LG,

you are making this sound interesting...but way over my head. can you dumb it down a bit?
:lol: :clap: I was thinking the same thing. feel like a kid trying to put a cube block through the cylinder hole. except the cube blocks the information and the hole is my head.

welcome aboard. you may not drink or produce but your going to end up with more bottles than you'll know what to do with.
as I said in the pm im looking forward to your teachings.

eck

Post Reply