Reusing spent mash?

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Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Wed May 23, 2012 10:13 pm

Hi Everyone

Beginner here, be nice.
I'm making a batch of ethanol using 6kg white sugar, 21L water and one pack of yeast. (total 25L)
Apparently one can reuse the left over slop in the still up to 8 times, which begs my first question.

1) If the yeast and sugar reacted correctly then there shouldn't be any of either in the left over mash.
Why reuse it?

And if there is a good reason for someone distilling the cleanest ethanol possible to reuse it then here is my second question.

2) Is this how one reuses mash?
I distill the mash till it's dead, then tip it back into my fermenting bucket.
I add another pack of yeast, another 6KG sugar, and top up to 25L with water and wait another week.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby Dnderhead » Thu May 24, 2012 4:37 am

"one can reuse the left over slop in the still up to 8 times"
why,I guess you could if you was short on water,leave that for rum /whiskey brewers.
but you can reuse the yeast from the fermenter (see UJSSM)
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby rgarry » Thu May 24, 2012 4:46 am

go over to the tried and true section and run of those recipes. You will be thankful. Sugar + water + yeast=etoh but the yeast need nutrients. The recipes over there are reproducible and come out great. I like Wineos but its a slow ferment. No sense reinvinting the wheel.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby NcHooch » Thu May 24, 2012 5:15 am

X2,
6K is too much sugar for 25L to make good spirits. the yeast will likely stress and produce off-flavors, and the ferment may even stall... should be more like 5K max, but as rgarry said you need something else in there for the yeasts health, so swing over to the tried n true recipes and have a look.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby Prairiepiss » Thu May 24, 2012 7:25 am

Spent mash = backset or in case of rum dunder.

That will give you something to search for. But I wouldn't use it for a neutral. Reuse the yeast in the fermenter could be useful. But in the case of a neutral backset would add flavors you are trying to get rid of.

Tried and true recipe section. :thumbup:

And it would be nice if you stepped over to the welcome center and introduced yourself. :wave:
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Thu May 24, 2012 8:09 pm

Prairy, you are right. How rude of me. I'll go ahead and do that now.
Thanks everyone else for the input. Kinda what I thought, pure spirit is better with a fresh wash every time.
And as for the sugar, 6kg is what the yeast recommends. I followed all instructions and it's bubbling away on day 5.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby fullhouse » Thu May 24, 2012 8:30 pm

ahhh turbo! check out "tried and true" for sure ...u can get rid of that expensive turbo yeast and use plain ol bakers yeast...Gerber is a good one fer me!
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Fri May 25, 2012 12:55 am

I just worked it out, I'd save just over £1 a wash if I used bakers yeast.
Hardly seems worth it, but I'm yet to yield my first batch yet. Early days.
Also, elsewhere I've heard that bakers yeast can produce unwanted bi-products during fermentation.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby shadylane » Fri May 25, 2012 4:28 am

If you want a clean neutral spirit, turbo is an expensive yet poor choice.
Check out the tried and true section.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby Prairiepiss » Fri May 25, 2012 4:53 am

bruvvamoff wrote:I just worked it out, I'd save just over £1 a wash if I used bakers yeast.
Hardly seems worth it, but I'm yet to yield my first batch yet. Early days.
Also, elsewhere I've heard that bakers yeast can produce unwanted bi-products during fermentation.


Your choice. You got a bunch of guys that home distill to make the best product they can. On the biggest home distilling forum on the net. Trying to give you the best advice they can. Or you can go by the manufactures info. Who is just out to sell you as much crap as they can.

Now you found the best site on the net for home distilling information. Take advantage of it. Dig in and do the research. That is if you want to make the best drink you can. If you are out to make cheap rocket fuel? Then the path your on is fine. :wtf:
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Fri May 25, 2012 6:27 am

Aah there's always one abnoxious little know-it-all isn't there.
I always investigate everything thoroughly before making any decisions,
and I certainly don't make snap judgements based on advice purely because of the size of the forum.
As I said, early days. I'll let you know how it turns out. If I am unhappy I shall certainly try birdwatchers.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby Prairiepiss » Fri May 25, 2012 6:47 am

Thanks for the kind words.

And glad to hear you like to do thorough research and not make snap judgments before you buy or do. It's nice to hear. So many come here that haven't done enough research. Or want people to spoon feed them what they want to know. Nice to have new member that won't.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Fri May 25, 2012 7:30 am

Get used to my questions. I am shall we say, inquisitive.
I certainly need no spoon feeding, I just like to get things right first time.
I gather as much info as possible then come to my own conclusions as a scientist would.
I have asked nearly 700 questions on yahoo answers, that speaks for itself.
Like I said, I'll share my results. Thanks again.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby beowoulfe » Sat May 26, 2012 5:14 am

bruvvamoff wrote:Aah there's always one abnoxious little know-it-all isn't there.


That's very trollish?
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bentstick » Sat May 26, 2012 5:24 am

Uuuuuhhhhh ooooooohhhhhh! Here we go again! :wtf:
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby rad14701 » Sat May 26, 2012 5:38 am

bruvvamoff wrote:Get used to my questions. I am shall we say, inquisitive.
I certainly need no spoon feeding, I just like to get things right first time.
I gather as much info as possible then come to my own conclusions as a scientist would.
I have asked nearly 700 questions on yahoo answers, that speaks for itself.
Like I said, I'll share my results. Thanks again.

Sounds more like a pain in the ass that wants answers without researching... Ever consider that the first answer someone gives you may not be the correct one...??? Go forth and research and you'll learn more than you expected to... In fact you'll learn answers to questions you don't even know you have yet...

700 Yahoo Answers questions...??? :wtf: :lolno: I rest my case... :problem:
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby Frosteecat » Sat May 26, 2012 11:13 am

Guys I think we may have a bit of a linguistic disconnect here. I am assuming from syntax, etc. that the OP is not a native English speaker and sometimes that makes wording come across a bit harsh. So grain of salt....

But that being said, you did take a clear shot at one of the finest resources this site has to offer. PP is also, if you had noticed the coloring of his handle, what is called a Mentor. Someone democratically (well, I'm sure there was a bit of nepotism in there somewhere, but MOSTLY democratically) selected to help others when able and in your case now, willing.
And unfortunately for you, he has a lot of admirers here, myself being one of them.
And you're being just plain old rude. When you see these guys respond directly to questions, statements of fact, practices, etc. without pulling any punches it's because there is a TON of experience to back it all up. They're not criticizing you personally...they just want to make sure you are very clear that there is a better way...and to your benefit.

You have to have a bit of a thick skin here at times...you have to be willing to go through the standard "hazing" that occurs when amateurs mix with experts--it is a right of passage and what makes us better men in the long run, provided the spirit is well intentioned...which I assure you it is.

So welcome and I recommend you fall squarely on your sword and try to make amends a bit...otherwise you're on a bit of a lonely path here. I know these guys will probably give you one pass at least...maybe not.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Sat May 26, 2012 1:16 pm

rad14701 wrote:
bruvvamoff wrote:Get used to my questions. I am shall we say, inquisitive.
I certainly need no spoon feeding, I just like to get things right first time.
I gather as much info as possible then come to my own conclusions as a scientist would.
I have asked nearly 700 questions on yahoo answers, that speaks for itself.
Like I said, I'll share my results. Thanks again.

Sounds more like a pain in the ass that wants answers without researching... Ever consider that the first answer someone gives you may not be the correct one...??? Go forth and research and you'll learn more than you expected to... In fact you'll learn answers to questions you don't even know you have yet...

700 Yahoo Answers questions...??? :wtf: :lolno: I rest my case... :problem:


Researching and questioning go hand in hand.
I have no local library, and every google search brings me back to this darn place.
What choice do I have?
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Sat May 26, 2012 1:23 pm

Frosteecat wrote:Guys I think we may have a bit of a linguistic disconnect here. I am assuming from syntax, etc. that the OP is not a native English speaker and sometimes that makes wording come across a bit harsh. So grain of salt....

But that being said, you did take a clear shot at one of the finest resources this site has to offer. PP is also, if you had noticed the coloring of his handle, what is called a Mentor. Someone democratically (well, I'm sure there was a bit of nepotism in there somewhere, but MOSTLY democratically) selected to help others when able and in your case now, willing.
And unfortunately for you, he has a lot of admirers here, myself being one of them.
And you're being just plain old rude. When you see these guys respond directly to questions, statements of fact, practices, etc. without pulling any punches it's because there is a TON of experience to back it all up. They're not criticizing you personally...they just want to make sure you are very clear that there is a better way...and to your benefit.

You have to have a bit of a thick skin here at times...you have to be willing to go through the standard "hazing" that occurs when amateurs mix with experts--it is a right of passage and what makes us better men in the long run, provided the spirit is well intentioned...which I assure you it is.

So welcome and I recommend you fall squarely on your sword and try to make amends a bit...otherwise you're on a bit of a lonely path here. I know these guys will probably give you one pass at least...maybe not.


I think maybe I'm in the wrong place to be asking these questions.
If it's rude to question and analyse responses then I will certainly drive you all crazy because I take noones word for anything, neither accept an answer based on status.
I like to debate, it solidifies theories and proves the efficiency of methods. If this behavious isn't the norm in here then I'll take my sceptical self elsewhere.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby Frosteecat » Sat May 26, 2012 3:17 pm

It's not a question of asking or debating. That goes on all the time. It's a question of calling a mentor obnoxious when he was trying to help initially and then got fed up and used a little sarcasm. No one denies your right to ask, disagree, etc. But the unpaid volunteers here are trying to elevate and maintain craft distilling at a high level. If they quietly let people use inferior products when there are better solutions available, or didn't tell you that plastic, rubber, glass, etc. can be hazards, they aren't really doing their job.
I'm going to assume your earlier retort to PP was not intended to be as asinine as it sounded and give you the benefit of the doubt...but just chill out and be able to be taught...and the first quality of a good student is humility...followed closely by respect. And I'm not talking about status based or heirarchical abeyance...I'm talking about any truth seeker's respect for the more learned.
"When the student is ready the Master appears"...
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby chopper35nj » Sat May 26, 2012 3:57 pm

+1 frost

I'm prety new to this whole thing too, and when I went off the path I got some razzing :lolno: and even a bit of what fealt like being called stupid. You know why? Because I was being stupid :oops: . Mr Piss and Rad are always the first to jump in and give good, solid advise. If you listen you'll learn somthing. For a nutral have a look at Bird Watchers and Winoes plain 'ol sugar wash also Rad's All Bran pecipe is out standing when refluxed but in my opinion better from the pot still. For corn whisky UJSSM can't be beat for a beginer, I love this recipe and until I have run all 8 generations on this corn won't be moving on to anything new. Take the advise given and you'll be all the better for it. Experience always trumps enthusiasm :thumbup: .

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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby whiskeytripping » Mon May 28, 2012 11:06 am

This gentleman seems to be getting off to a good start making friends quickly :thumbup:
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bentstick » Mon May 28, 2012 7:25 pm

As I was taught, if you know the answers dont ask the questions, if you dont know the answers ask the questions and shut your mouth,open your ears and listen to what you are told. You may not agree 100% of the time or have a different way of thinking about it but, in the beginning you had no clue, because you asked the question to begin with. Do you follow?
All n all don't ask if you dont want to know ones answer.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Tue May 29, 2012 10:52 pm

whiskeytripping wrote:This gentleman seems to be getting off to a good start making friends quickly :thumbup:


Yeah I have that effect on people :wink:
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby essjay » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:01 am

bruvvamoff, i can relate to how your coming at this hobby, but not with the way your caoming across to this forum and the pros here. I dont know all the big players here etc but i have been on here a few years, asked stupid questions to begin with, researched reserched researched, asked more stupid questions and sometimes not believed the answers. Partly because the long term members standard response seems to just be 'go to tried and true section, do not pass go, do not collect $200 dollars" Having learnt more i can see why they say that, but for someone asking 'why do ya'all hate this turbo stuff seems like a miracle!' then just saying 'go here and read' doesnt seem like much of an answer.
If you made the turbo and you liked the results, well, no need for this forum. If you want to try more and your open to learning new things, for a laugh then id say try essencia super 6. Its another yeast pack with nutrients in it, but slower fermenting, and if you can muster up the strength to ignore the 6kg suggestion on the packet and just do 5, well the results for me were waaay better than the turbos id done before. Like you id done my homework, and like you hadnt found enough to put me off trying it out for myself first hand. I didnt feel the need to tell the good people on here that they were wrong and could stick it, but i did feel the need to try it for myself. SO a couple runs of turbo classic, then asking the brew shop about making a cleaner nicer spirit led me to essencia super 6. Much better than turbo classic, even with 5kg in the turbo classic was still bad by comparison. essencia had a good couple bottles worth in the middle with next to no smell or taste to it. Im continuing my experimentation and have a birdwatchers wash on at the moment along with a basic rum, im hoping for good results and im glad i have a base to compare them to, and i can appreciate what everyone on here is talking about when they advise against using turbos. For convenience id use the essencia super 6 again, and im trying to steer my friends that dont do any research and only use turbos towards trying the essencia even just once, so they can get better results for the same price and effort. For the record doing two washes of birdwatchers comes in at the same price as a single run of turbo, doing the same size washes. Turbo yeasts must be cheap as chips where you are for the difference to be so small. Just throwing my own $0.02 in there with my first hand experience, your mileage may vary, i see its been a month and a half on this topic so you might have done another six lots of turbo since then, or maybe youv already tried a birdwatcher for yourself, i dont know. Sharing is caring so there it is :)
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby AnOniiMouse » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:27 pm

Prairiepiss wrote:Your choice. You got a bunch of guys that home distill to make the best product they can. On the biggest home distilling forum on the net. Trying to give you the best advice they can. Or you can go by the manufactures info. Who is just out to sell you as much crap as they can. :
wtf:

LOL, that's going in my sig.
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby bruvvamoff » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:23 am

AnOniiMouse wrote:
Prairiepiss wrote:Your choice. You got a bunch of guys that home distill to make the best product they can. On the biggest home distilling forum on the net. Trying to give you the best advice they can. Or you can go by the manufactures info. Who is just out to sell you as much crap as they can. :
wtf:

LOL, that's going in my sig.


I've tried birdwatcher three times now and created rank tasting crap every time, and only 2 litres of it.
I'm not disputing the recipe, it's certainly something I'm doing wrong.
I threw a party recently and everyone was drinking my latest turbo run, no complaints.
Either each and every one of my friends have no taste buds or.. turbo shine isn't as bad as people like to make out.
And since I live so close to the alcotec factory and can get it at about £2 a pack, I'll stick to what works for me.
:D
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby boda getta » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:05 am

"But that being said, you did take a clear shot at one of the finest resources this site has to offer. PP is also, if you had noticed the coloring of his handle, what is called a Mentor. Someone democratically (well, I'm sure there was a bit of nepotism in there somewhere, but MOSTLY democratically) selected to help others when able and in your case now, willing."

++1

I have made over a hundred runs through my pot still, but would still defer to PP's knowledge of hobbyist distilling. The OP would do well to listen to him and other experienced and knowledgeable members of this Forum.

BG
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby hamshine » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:03 pm

I used to drink the shit out of some turbo's back in the day. Of course I used to drink the shit out of Kentucky Deluxe too. I'm not ashamed because I didn't know better. If you split it into two buckets instead of one with like 3 gallons of water in each one that helps it stay cooler in temp. As the boys said it's just jet fuel and at the time that was new and novel me... and i drank the shit out of it and so did my friends... on ocasion. However that being said no body ever asked me to give them a jar of that swill to take to a wedding or give as a present. you will see all these guys don't tell you to keep it under 12% for no reason.
ETOH.... yes plz
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Re: Reusing spent mash?

Postby shadylane » Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:32 am

bruvvamoff wrote:Is this how one reuses mash?
I distill the mash till it's dead, then tip it back into my fermenting bucket.
I add another pack of yeast, another 6KG sugar, and top up to 25L with water and wait another week.


Using more than 25% back-set can cause pH problems. Especially in a sugar wash.
There isn't enough grain in a sugar-head to buffer the pH.
Recipes such as Uncle Jessie and sweet feed have grain added to the sugar wash.

Personal, I only use back-set in all grain mashes.
The enzymes need an acidic environment to convert the starch into sugar and back-set is good for this.
The "lees" left over spent yeast in the bottom of the fermenter can be reused by adding more water and sugar, or as an ingredient in a yeast bomb.
If you want to have healthy sugar-head ferments, search "yeast bomb"
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