old school moonshine mash ?

Production methods from starch to sugars.

Moderator: Forum Mods

old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Easyrider1986 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:22 pm

back in the big moonshing days, what did they use for making mash ? i head 100% corn products but i also heard recipes like today.... idk

I would like to make some classic moon shine
Easyrider1986
Novice
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:49 pm

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby rubber duck » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:27 pm

Well what kind of classic are we talking about 1900's 1800's or founding fathers?
Ideas are like rabbits. You get a couple and learn how to handle them, and pretty soon you have a dozen. John Steinbeck
User avatar
rubber duck
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 2915
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:33 am
Location: brigadoon

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby boda getta » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:49 pm

Sort of a contradiction in terms in your question. The real "old school" mash brought from the old countries used only corn and water. That's it. They would malt (sprout, grind and dry) some of the corn. They would grind the rest; cook the mast to convert sugars and the malt and wild yeast would convert sugar to alcohol. They used no store brought yeast or sugar. They would then distill in small copper stills, usually double distill and proof down to around 100 proof. They would keep, barter or sell the rest. These guys did it right and had a lot of pride in their product. That was old school. The best description I have seen of the recipe and method is in Foxfire Book (ISBN 0-385-07353-4) available from Amazon new or used.

Big is another matter. As demand grew so did the profit incentive. These operators were in it only for the money and they employed every shortcut to maximize profit and minimize cost with little of no regard to quality. Some of these still operations were huge and were whiskey factories.

That's what I like about Craft or Hobby Distilling today. The equipment, in some cases, is light years ahead of the copper tulpip pot still, but there is no profit motive and it's all about pride in your product.

BG
boda getta
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:39 pm

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:56 pm

Boda getta has it pretty well,the sugar thing started big time during the prohibition,
anything that made alcohol was used.sugar was easiest and for some the cheapest.
and was in demand big time.truck loads of sugar was hijacked and never made it to its destination.
stills sprung up right in the city's.hidden of coarse or the authorities was bought off.
some that made it big is well known today and even celebrated.
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Easyrider1986 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:49 pm

how would pure corn meal and water hold up to making it from corn ?
Easyrider1986
Novice
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:49 pm

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:26 pm

"The real "old school" mash brought from the old countries "
let me add maze/ corn was not used in the "old country"
as most distilling was brought over with the scotch/irish and they used barley or oats.
moonshine started in the north east,and was chased south but barley being more of a cool weather crop does not do well in the south east so corn/maze was used. corn/maze has to be treated a bit different as its a hard grain and low in enzymes.thats where "sour mashing "came in.
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby rad14701 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:27 pm

Easyrider1986 wrote:how would pure corn meal and water hold up to making it from corn ?

Cornmeal is merely coarsely ground corn flour, so it's made of 100% dried corn...
User avatar
rad14701
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 17145
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Easyrider1986 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:44 pm

rad14701 wrote:
Easyrider1986 wrote:how would pure corn meal and water hold up to making it from corn ?

Cornmeal is merely coarsely ground corn flour, so it's made of 100% dried corn...


is corn meal germanated tho ?

would the product be the same as good old fashion moonshine ?
Easyrider1986
Novice
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:49 pm

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:06 pm

"is corn meal germanated tho ?"
nope...
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dan P. » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:21 am

I like this question.
Do you mean Old Old School?
Or New Old School?
Or Old New School?
New New School?
Or?

I am reading the Foxfire article on moonshining. It's funny, because they give a corn moonshine recipe and process with the sugar content in parentheses, because it isn't "authentic".
However, when you look at the process (malt added cold and no apparent conversion taking place) and the amount of sugar used (50lbs per 50 gallon mash barrel), you are left with the choice between "authentic" mash at around maybe 3% abv, if you're lucky, on the one hand, or UJSM at maybe 14% on the other.

So, the Old Old school means mashing while in total ignorance of enzymatic activity and judging mash temperatures using your finger, and a resultant piss-poor yield.
Old New School means, basically a UJSM or variation thereof.
New Old School means mashing using modern know-how for maximum yield, commercial distillery style.
New New School might mean running straight sugar washes through a reflux system.

Which is authentic?
This is life, it's all authentic.
Dan P.
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:40 am

"total ignorance of enzymatic activity and judging mash "
enzymes work even at lower temperature,but not as fast.
some relied on converting while fermenting ,others sour mashing.(or both)
if your talking about "moon shine" then yes sugar can be used.
if your talking about making "whiskey" then no.
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dan P. » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Dnderhead wrote:if your talking about "moon shine" then yes sugar can be used.
if your talking about making "whiskey" then no.


Speak for yourself.
In my book, whiskey is what comes out of my still.
If you want to limit yourself to definitions dreamt up by corporations and approved by bureaucrats, be my guest!


Dnderhead wrote:some relied on converting while fermenting ,others sour mashing.(or both)


Sour mashing causes conversion of starches?
Dan P.
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Easyrider1986 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:53 pm

well thank you for all your help and on my next mash im going to use dryed corn only and moden day mashing
and i will use bought yest instead of wild

I know some of you have suger content down to a science, what would be a good corn seed LBS to Gallon mash?

one of the fields i dirt bike in has abandon dryid corn off the side of the trail...... they only harvested 85% of the field and left this stuff to die
Easyrider1986
Novice
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:49 pm

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:28 pm

"
"Sour mashing causes conversion of starches?"
yes if done correctly.but then whats the diferance if all is made from sugar/ water and flavoring ?
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Easyrider1986 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:51 pm

Dnderhead wrote:"
"Sour mashing causes conversion of starches?"
yes if done correctly.but then whats the diferance if all is made from sugar/ water and flavoring ?


I belive the corn broth also distils at 170o or somewere during the distilng
Easyrider1986
Novice
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:49 pm

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dan P. » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:47 am

Dnderhead wrote:"Sour mashing causes conversion of starches?"
yes if done correctly.


How does it work?


Dnderhead wrote:but then whats the diferance if all is made from sugar/ water and flavoring ?


Don't get me wrong; everybody should just go ahead and make what they feel like and what is appropriate to their situation.
But- if you want to taste the taste of moonshine as it has been made for the last hundred or more years, go ahead and put some sugar in there.
Dan P.
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:03 am

if you want "authentic" sugar head .then fiend a wooden tub like that was used for water and holds about 300gal.throw in about 2-300lb of grain ,does not matter what.
add 300 lb of sugar. one large chunk of horse meat,or if you dont have that use a woodchuck/scraps from your last butchering etc..top with warm water and gallon of horse pee .hopefully in about a week it will be fermented (no yeast).now draw this off and run it threw your still witch was probably made from a fuel tank..
the meat(amino acids) and pee (nitrogen)was necessary nutrients when using sugar.
there was different methods/recipes but this is typical.you did not run down to the "brew store" nor the "farm" store there was no such thing.

been there....
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby NcHooch » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:40 am

Mmmmmm Mmmmm !!

(reminds me of the ol' skit on Hee Haw ... Hey Grampa, whats for dinner ?"
NChooch
Practice safe distillin and keep your hobby under your hat.
User avatar
NcHooch
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1847
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:40 pm
Location: The Ol' North State

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:01 am

you got to realize if you lived on a farm you mite go to a store two times a year.
in the spring you mite have cheese, butter or whatever you made the last winter.
then you went in the fall to sale your crops,maybe some livestock. and return with
goods you could not make.I can remember my parents walking about 30 mile one way.
now how much you going to pack back? or how many trips you going to make? do you thank you are going to pack in several hundred pounds of sugar? most sugar head was made around cities,much like drugs are made now,in some abandoned house,some ones cellar,much of witch was made by the "mafia" or at least that is who it was blamed on.it was made cheep to sale to alcoholics and there was a lot of them,no cuts just as long as it containd alcohol..
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Tater » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:10 pm

Back in the day It be easier to carry few gallon corn likker to town to trade then 3 -4 bushels corn wouldn't ya think. :mrgreen:
PLEASE READ THIS FORUMS RULES AND THESES Links: http://homedistiller.org and New Distiller Reading Lounge I use a pot still
User avatar
Tater
Admin
 
Posts: 6430
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:19 am
Location: occupied south

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dan P. » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:18 am

Dnderhead wrote:you got to realize if you lived on a farm you mite go to a store two times a year.
in the spring you mite have cheese, butter or whatever you made the last winter.
then you went in the fall to sale your crops,maybe some livestock. and return with
goods you could not make.I can remember my parents walking about 30 mile one way.
now how much you going to pack back? or how many trips you going to make? do you thank you are going to pack in several hundred pounds of sugar? most sugar head was made around cities,much like drugs are made now,in some abandoned house,some ones cellar,much of witch was made by the "mafia" or at least that is who it was blamed on.it was made cheep to sale to alcoholics and there was a lot of them,no cuts just as long as it containd alcohol..


Hmmm, I think the profit margins in the hundreds of percent between sugar and moonshine might have proved incentive to most people to buy a car and move the sugar around that way!
Dan P.
Rumrunner
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: old school moonshine mash ?

Postby Dnderhead » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:47 am

we had a car/truck/traction engine,,you know what? NO GAS.it was not expensive there just was none.if you want to buy things from stores ,you moved to the city.
not much was trucked anyway ,it was a long trip to "the big city" that whould be
a days work for a truck driver.and hopefully on the way back he did not git robed
by some one like the kennedys.there was no shoot them up things like you see on tv.
it was more like a road block ,take the truck and leave the driver to walk home.
dont say youd run away with a high speed car case ,trucks did all of 40-45 mph.
Dnderhead
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 13668
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north


Return to Mashing and Fermenting



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], shadylane and 2 guests