i use a screen that belongs in crop sprayer filter, i place the end of siphon in this then in the fermenter,
this keep the grain away so it dont git sucked in to the siphon.
How much malt and do i need to grind?
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Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
WOW!jimdo64 wrote:Why youre hell bent on sparging corn mash after 6 pages of help otherwise is mind boggling.
I wish you the best.
REALLY?
Who and where did anyone tell me not to sparge corn mash?
Im just trying to learn how to grind and filter it so I get more then two gallons out of 10 due to a 20 lb grain bed soaking up 8 of it.
I have done this a total of ONE TIME. I don't know what I am doing and if i misunderstood something that you or someone else said
I truly beg your pardon.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Dnderhead wrote:i use a screen that belongs in crop sprayer filter, i place the end of siphon in this then in the fermenter,
this keep the grain away so it dont git sucked in to the siphon.
sounds like a viable idea.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
no you cant sparg with a false bottom as its done with beer,but you can batch sparg with a siphon.
most of the distilleries use centrifuge separators.these are above most on HD.
some have tried altered washers/honey separators etc. usually these projects die out and you never here anything more.
most of the distilleries use centrifuge separators.these are above most on HD.
some have tried altered washers/honey separators etc. usually these projects die out and you never here anything more.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
That is basically what I did last week.Dnderhead wrote:no you cant sparg with a false bottom as its done with beer,but you can batch sparg with a siphon.
most of the distilleries use centrifuge separators.these are above most on HD.
some have tried altered washers/honey separators etc. usually these projects die out and you never here anything more.
I just siphoned off what I cold then pumped out everything through a kitchen strainer.
As the strainer got full I dumped the two gallons of hot water that I held back to wash the sugars out.
I did that with as much of the grain as I could and capped off my fermenters.
It was the only thing that I could think of for not losing the sugars.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
When I was a kid I used a machine for filtering cooking oil.
I worked in a fish and chips place at the time. That oil would be so full of thick gooey crap that you would have never thought that it could be cleaned up.
So this filtering system was this big stainless tub with a thick corrugated paper filter on the bottom.
You would vacuum out the fryers with this thing after you primed it a little and then let is circulate for a few minutes.
That oil would come so clean that you wouldnt think that it had ever been used.
the floury mess on the bottom was unreal.
that would be PERFECT for something like this!
It probably cost 10k dollars even back then though.
I worked in a fish and chips place at the time. That oil would be so full of thick gooey crap that you would have never thought that it could be cleaned up.
So this filtering system was this big stainless tub with a thick corrugated paper filter on the bottom.
You would vacuum out the fryers with this thing after you primed it a little and then let is circulate for a few minutes.
That oil would come so clean that you wouldnt think that it had ever been used.
the floury mess on the bottom was unreal.
that would be PERFECT for something like this!
It probably cost 10k dollars even back then though.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
I batch sparg,this is putting hot water in the mash turn,give it a stir then removing water.you can do thiis several times ,then i use this "sparg" water in the next mash.
Last edited by Dnderhead on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
My problem was basically recovering the mash water due to the mass of grain holding so much of it.
I can see where a false bottom would not work so good.
Thats where all of my questions about grain (grind size) came from.
I though that perhaps I went to far with the fineness of the grind and that it was unusual to have that trouble.
I thought (crap i ground it too fine)
I can see where a false bottom would not work so good.
Thats where all of my questions about grain (grind size) came from.
I though that perhaps I went to far with the fineness of the grind and that it was unusual to have that trouble.
I thought (crap i ground it too fine)
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
sorry for barkin at ya, just seemed you were asking the same questions over and over again. Im prolly just being an impatient ass.
Dunder and I do this totally different ways, and that was probably confusing too. But both ways are perfectly valid.
Dunder mashes then batch sparges until he has enough volume to ferment, then keeps sparging to rinse any remaining sugars and uses it for the next mash.
I mash then ferment right on the grain. Easy and another benefit that dunder pointed out when I did it, is the conversion keeps on keepin on while its fermenting, the bigger chunks of corn etc keep getting worked on for a week. I then drain off and squeeze the solids through a mesh bag, like squeezing a grapefruit in a bag, comes out pretty dry when Im don
Dunder and I do this totally different ways, and that was probably confusing too. But both ways are perfectly valid.
Dunder mashes then batch sparges until he has enough volume to ferment, then keeps sparging to rinse any remaining sugars and uses it for the next mash.
I mash then ferment right on the grain. Easy and another benefit that dunder pointed out when I did it, is the conversion keeps on keepin on while its fermenting, the bigger chunks of corn etc keep getting worked on for a week. I then drain off and squeeze the solids through a mesh bag, like squeezing a grapefruit in a bag, comes out pretty dry when Im don
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
even with batch sparg it will keep converting,as long as you dont use water/heat above 160f.
so any starches rinsed out in the sparg will convert.
now if you do as with beer,,this is adding the sparg to the wort then cooking this back down
to the SG you want ,this will deactivate the enzymes and no farther converting can take place.
so any starches rinsed out in the sparg will convert.
now if you do as with beer,,this is adding the sparg to the wort then cooking this back down
to the SG you want ,this will deactivate the enzymes and no farther converting can take place.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Thats ok, I know that simple things get over complicated by people that hardly know the terminology let alone the procedures.
I have only done one other cooked mash and the hydrometer reading was so bad that I just added sugar as if it was UJSM.
This one that I did actually gave me a good reading out of the box.
One thing that I dont get is its only been fermenting since sunday night and its already slowing down.
I dont remember that from a few years ago when I was doing UJSM. It seemed to go steady for over a week.
These have gone frantically for 3 days and now they are already slowing.
I really appreciate all of the help that everyone has given me. Its hard to get the concept down on a forum.
Like the whole grain grind debacle! I viewed 100 videos and every one the grind was different.
anywhere from kitty litter sized grains to fine flour.
I know that I got a HELL of a lot of sugar out of the cornmeal sized grind so I will keep doing that for now
I have only done one other cooked mash and the hydrometer reading was so bad that I just added sugar as if it was UJSM.
This one that I did actually gave me a good reading out of the box.
One thing that I dont get is its only been fermenting since sunday night and its already slowing down.
I dont remember that from a few years ago when I was doing UJSM. It seemed to go steady for over a week.
These have gone frantically for 3 days and now they are already slowing.
I really appreciate all of the help that everyone has given me. Its hard to get the concept down on a forum.
Like the whole grain grind debacle! I viewed 100 videos and every one the grind was different.
anywhere from kitty litter sized grains to fine flour.
I know that I got a HELL of a lot of sugar out of the cornmeal sized grind so I will keep doing that for now
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
ferment times vary dramatically by temp. and all yeasts are different so cant even tell you ideal temp. You need to see what range yoru yeast likes, specified on the package or you can look it up. low end of the range and it will take LOT longer. Top of the range it will be furious. If you drop below recommended range your yeast coudl take a snooze on ya and youll be stuck until you warm it back up.
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
"fermenting since sunday night and its already slowing down"
yeast love AG..
yeast love AG..
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Yeah I have never had sugar wash take off like these did that is for sure.
I use champagne 1118.
Ill have to go look it up.
They are on the cold side maybe 65F.
Basement is cold and dark,
I use champagne 1118.
Ill have to go look it up.
They are on the cold side maybe 65F.
Basement is cold and dark,
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
um.... I dont want to bring you bad news. But wine yeasts are not good at chomping on Maltose. Fruit sugars all day long but they are prone to stuck fermentations and high FG when you feed them maltose, which is what your whiskey mash is.
Also, EC-1118 exhibits the 'killer factor'. Meaning it doesnt like other yeasts and kills them, so if you tried to add a malt yeast now, say an ale yeast, the 1118 will wipe it out.
Do some google researching on the keywords above.
Also, EC-1118 exhibits the 'killer factor'. Meaning it doesnt like other yeasts and kills them, so if you tried to add a malt yeast now, say an ale yeast, the 1118 will wipe it out.
Do some google researching on the keywords above.
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
What is a good yeast fort Maltose?
I have another batch almost ready to mash.
I could kill the old batches off and let cool and pitch again if they dont get down to a reasonable level reading couldnt I?
seems as though it would be easy enough to do.
I have another batch almost ready to mash.
I could kill the old batches off and let cool and pitch again if they dont get down to a reasonable level reading couldnt I?
seems as though it would be easy enough to do.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
If it went hard for 3 days youre prolly fine. I wouldnt sweat it. If its a really high FG and wont go lower then I guess you could do something like that. Or just run it and move on, corn is cheap.
I use US-05, its a 'high attenuation' ale yeast. High attenuation means it ferments to a low FG. Others on here have great luck with bakers yeast. Others still use distillers yeast, like a crosby and baker.
Edit: BTW dont feel bad, I made a very similar mistake once, I added US-05 and then sprinkled some packets of 1118 I had on top hoping to squeeze some extra ferment out, and the kind folks here on this forum pointed out the error in my ways LOL. We're all learning. I just created a battle in my hooch mash. Luckily all turned out well.
I use US-05, its a 'high attenuation' ale yeast. High attenuation means it ferments to a low FG. Others on here have great luck with bakers yeast. Others still use distillers yeast, like a crosby and baker.
Edit: BTW dont feel bad, I made a very similar mistake once, I added US-05 and then sprinkled some packets of 1118 I had on top hoping to squeeze some extra ferment out, and the kind folks here on this forum pointed out the error in my ways LOL. We're all learning. I just created a battle in my hooch mash. Luckily all turned out well.
Last edited by Jimbo on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Ok ill keep and eye on it and check the hydrometer in the next day or so
thanks man
thanks man
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Ok its still bubbling every 3 to 5 seconds. so maybe it will be ok.
Yeast are strange things, they can adapt pretty well to harsh conditions
Yeast are strange things, they can adapt pretty well to harsh conditions
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
It has dramatically slowed in a few short hours.
the hydrometer reads 1020 down from 1060. I dont know how accurate my first was at 98 degrees.
I tasted it and almost no alcohol at all.
I siphoned off a gallon and a half of each and heated. dissolved 5 lbs of cane sugar/beet sugar and added it back in.
They are rolling again, for how long i do not know...
I will do this until there is at least something to get back for the thumb pot charge at the very least.
Live and learn.
This next mash I am leaving on the grain over night and ill use correct yeast
I am not upset really
Sitting here thinking about it, the whole thing was very cheap and I learned a bunch of stuff most of which I will never do again.
Now I know what to expect and how to prepare for it next time.
I made people angry and felt stupid! BONUS!!
the hydrometer reads 1020 down from 1060. I dont know how accurate my first was at 98 degrees.
I tasted it and almost no alcohol at all.
I siphoned off a gallon and a half of each and heated. dissolved 5 lbs of cane sugar/beet sugar and added it back in.
They are rolling again, for how long i do not know...
I will do this until there is at least something to get back for the thumb pot charge at the very least.
Live and learn.
This next mash I am leaving on the grain over night and ill use correct yeast
I am not upset really
Sitting here thinking about it, the whole thing was very cheap and I learned a bunch of stuff most of which I will never do again.
Now I know what to expect and how to prepare for it next time.
I made people angry and felt stupid! BONUS!!
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Why don't you just sit on your fucking hands and wait to see how things turn out instead of constantly fucking with things...??? Is it really that hard to be patient...??? If you're going to ask for help then stop letting you own thoughts dictate your destiny...!!! I hope this sends a clear enough message...Xnerd wrote:It has dramatically slowed in a few short hours.
the hydrometer reads 1020 down from 1060. I dont know how accurate my first was at 98 degrees.
I tasted it and almost no alcohol at all.
I siphoned off a gallon and a half of each and heated. dissolved 5 lbs of cane sugar/beet sugar and added it back in.
They are rolling again, for how long i do not know...
I will do this until there is at least something to get back for the thumb pot charge at the very least.
Live and learn.
This next mash I am leaving on the grain over night and ill use correct yeast
I am not upset really
Sitting here thinking about it, the whole thing was very cheap and I learned a bunch of stuff most of which I will never do again.
Now I know what to expect and how to prepare for it next time.
I made people angry and felt stupid! BONUS!!
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
I dont know about your experience but when i wash slows to one bubble a minute there is either hardly any sugar left or your yeast is dead or dormant.
I tested and tasted it. it was not going to do any better. I think that the reason why it bubbled a bit at 7 am is i bumped my wash racks.
The wash's were dead or almost dead. there is no booze in them. I might be a noob at grain washes but I have done 50 sugar washes and I know when they are dead or dormant.
I had the choice of either dumping them out and starting over or taking 30 cents worth of sugar and spiking them back to life.
At least this way I will get some thumper charge out of the whole thing.
I tested and tasted it. it was not going to do any better. I think that the reason why it bubbled a bit at 7 am is i bumped my wash racks.
The wash's were dead or almost dead. there is no booze in them. I might be a noob at grain washes but I have done 50 sugar washes and I know when they are dead or dormant.
I had the choice of either dumping them out and starting over or taking 30 cents worth of sugar and spiking them back to life.
At least this way I will get some thumper charge out of the whole thing.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
thumper wash? you said it dropped from 1060 to 1020. hell you got 40 points out of it. not bad for a wine yeast on maltose LOL. you went and took a nice AG and made a sugar wash out of it, shoulda just run it. or like rad says, quit dickin with it for a bit, prolly hit 1010 and then run it. haha, laughed my ass off at his response btw. definitely looks like youre getting in your own way some. haha. kinda amusing to watch tho lol sorry.
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
As I said I am not sure about the accuracy of my original hydrometer reading.
1060 was at with a shit ton of particulate matter suspended in it which in theory will change the density of the liquid and therefor the relative gravity reading.
Its not just sugar that cause a change in the buoyancy of a hydrometer
Resolve salt in water then test it!
You know as well as anyone that even at 40 pts you will be able to taste it.
Im done here. 2.5 lbs of sugar in 6 gallons is not going to dramatically effect anything in the first place.
I have read 100 mash recipes that call for a little sugar.
I have seen recipes that call for sugar at the end to raise the potential apv before pitching.
trust me there weren't shit in these, now there will be a little at least.
Im done here.
1060 was at with a shit ton of particulate matter suspended in it which in theory will change the density of the liquid and therefor the relative gravity reading.
Its not just sugar that cause a change in the buoyancy of a hydrometer
Resolve salt in water then test it!
You know as well as anyone that even at 40 pts you will be able to taste it.
Im done here. 2.5 lbs of sugar in 6 gallons is not going to dramatically effect anything in the first place.
I have read 100 mash recipes that call for a little sugar.
I have seen recipes that call for sugar at the end to raise the potential apv before pitching.
trust me there weren't shit in these, now there will be a little at least.
Im done here.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
No worries mate, its all in good fun. Dont be mad at us, you cant flail around wildly in front of us and expect us not to be a little amused. haha.
Do up another AG, mash it well again, aerate it properly and pitch an appropriate yeast. Then promise us you'll leave your hands off it for a week at least!
Do up another AG, mash it well again, aerate it properly and pitch an appropriate yeast. Then promise us you'll leave your hands off it for a week at least!
In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
My Bourbon and Single Malt recipes. Apple Stuff and Electric Conversion
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
jimdo64 wrote:No worries mate, its all in good fun. Dont be mad at us, you cant flail around wildly in front of us and expect us not to be a little amused. haha.
Agreed... 
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Ok so i stepped back and did two more 10 gallon batches of AG.
I cooked the corn a little longer and a little higher heat.
I mashed and in two hours a totally red Iodine test.
I left it alone over night anyway.
I wrapped it up in a blanket that kept it hot overnight.
I used US-02
Fermented for 5 days cleared for a couple more.
ran it all yesterday...
Ran it real real slow.... REAL slow.
This time I got lots of hearts and only a little heads detectable. (will know more when i temper it)
Even the tails on his stuff were good.
I can not believe the aroma and flavor that I got from this.
I can smell the barley in every jar,
I had to keep my self out of it! Its so superior to anything that I have done before!
I cooked the corn a little longer and a little higher heat.
I mashed and in two hours a totally red Iodine test.
I left it alone over night anyway.
I wrapped it up in a blanket that kept it hot overnight.
I used US-02
Fermented for 5 days cleared for a couple more.
ran it all yesterday...
Ran it real real slow.... REAL slow.
This time I got lots of hearts and only a little heads detectable. (will know more when i temper it)
Even the tails on his stuff were good.
I can not believe the aroma and flavor that I got from this.
I can smell the barley in every jar,
I had to keep my self out of it! Its so superior to anything that I have done before!
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
try running fores/heads off slow then kick it up a bit.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
Yeah that is good advice.
I just ran these two charges real slow because the first AG I stripped out to fast and everything mingled together.
Now that I know what to expect from this recipe I will ramp it up a when the heads clear.
I was real surprised how little heads I got out of this.
I wish I had a two gallon oak barrel, but they are fat to expensive for me at this point.
This stuff is premo straight out of the worm. I cant imagine how good it would be aged in oak.
Cool story about white oak.
A friend of my and former coworker lives on a couple hundred acres of hardwood forest in New Hampshire.
He had so send a machine that was being returned back to our company back to me.
He knew that I was a hobby wood worker so he milled up a bunch of his white oak and made a crate out of it to ship me the machine.
he packed it with boards! nice!
I still have a whole bunch of scrap, as well as some nice boards. Maybe what I need to do is roast or burn some of this to soak in a 5 gallon carboy full of AG.
I just ran these two charges real slow because the first AG I stripped out to fast and everything mingled together.
Now that I know what to expect from this recipe I will ramp it up a when the heads clear.
I was real surprised how little heads I got out of this.
I wish I had a two gallon oak barrel, but they are fat to expensive for me at this point.
This stuff is premo straight out of the worm. I cant imagine how good it would be aged in oak.
Cool story about white oak.
A friend of my and former coworker lives on a couple hundred acres of hardwood forest in New Hampshire.
He had so send a machine that was being returned back to our company back to me.
He knew that I was a hobby wood worker so he milled up a bunch of his white oak and made a crate out of it to ship me the machine.
he packed it with boards! nice!
I still have a whole bunch of scrap, as well as some nice boards. Maybe what I need to do is roast or burn some of this to soak in a 5 gallon carboy full of AG.
Re: How much malt and do i need to grind?
MitchyB....that rolling pin idea may be a lot less messy if you put your malt/grain between two sheets of newspaper, in a shallow cooky sheet, and then roll the hell out of it. BTW - toss the newspaper after you've finished...it'll be tough to read anyway... 
But personally, as usual I faced the problem the wrong way first, but never tried the rolling pin idea. I bought a hand grinder, and it works well but is time consuming to assemble and clean, slow, messy, and oddly out of place no matter where I try to store it. After two grinding cycles, I Then sprang for a grain grinder attachment to the wife's Kitchen Aid mixer, and am as happy as a clam in the bay now...Bought her the Kitchen Aid several years ago for her bread making...she rarely uses it now days, I attached the shiny new the grain grinder and simply leave it there, it is adjustable from a coarse to fine, and works just peachy for grain while on coarse. I've been cracking wheat, and barley malt, and mixing both whole grains with rolled oats for a new grain bill I've been working with and the process is easy, quicker, painless and easy to clean up after...
Boom.....
But personally, as usual I faced the problem the wrong way first, but never tried the rolling pin idea. I bought a hand grinder, and it works well but is time consuming to assemble and clean, slow, messy, and oddly out of place no matter where I try to store it. After two grinding cycles, I Then sprang for a grain grinder attachment to the wife's Kitchen Aid mixer, and am as happy as a clam in the bay now...Bought her the Kitchen Aid several years ago for her bread making...she rarely uses it now days, I attached the shiny new the grain grinder and simply leave it there, it is adjustable from a coarse to fine, and works just peachy for grain while on coarse. I've been cracking wheat, and barley malt, and mixing both whole grains with rolled oats for a new grain bill I've been working with and the process is easy, quicker, painless and easy to clean up after...
Boom.....
“…Let’s do this one more time....”