Another stuck fermentation...

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Lagtastic
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Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

Hey all,

I'm trying a molasse ferment for the first time and it's stuck. Here's the data:

4 kg fancy molasses
1,5 kg dark brown cane sugar
12g yeast nutriments
Juice from 1 lemon
60g Red star baker's yeast
20L water

OG: 1,075 (mesured with a refractormeter)
I'm stucked at 1.030.

My PH is around 5 (i have bandlets, hard to tell between 4 and 5)

I made sure the yeast was at room temp before pitchin it in water (that was at 38oC, as instructed on the package)
I mixed touroughly at a 30 min interval for 2 hours after pitching my yeast, before closing the lid with airlock
my room temp is 21oC (wich is kinda low for baker yeast)
so when it stops at 1.030, i went another way and tried 2 packs of EC-1118 (at room temp, and activated in water at 40oC, as intructed on the package). I tought that my room temps was too low, maybe.

1 week later, i'm still at 1.030...and i'm a bit at loss.... my ph is good, technicaly, my room temperature is ok for EC-1118 (i had good results on other ferments) and it's still stuck.

Nothing here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 61&t=42748 seems to apply to my situation..

Bad EC-1118? Try again?
Crushed oyster shells? still, my PH seems to be ok...
Heater belt?

What are your toughts?

Thanks a lot!
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still_stirrin
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by still_stirrin »

You might be done.

Big OG --> big FG in rums at least. Plus, its really hard to tell what the true FG is because of all the solids in molasses.

How does it taste? Is it sweet, or dry?
ss

p.s. - next time, using bakers yeast in your rum, ferment it warm...like in the tropics. Your 21*C (70*F) is too cold. You should ferment at 32*C (90*F). You'll get more natural rum flavors out of it, with less hassle on attenuation.
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BayouShine
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by BayouShine »

I have to agree with SS here. Sounds to me like it's done. It's really difficult to get a true gravity reading at any point on a molasses wash because of the unfermentable sugars.

When you repitched the 1118, it didn't take off because there was nothing left for them to consume.
rad14701
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by rad14701 »

For future reference, bakers yeast likes a temperature range of 75F/24C - 85F/30C (higher is also ok for bakers yeast) and will start into the dormancy phase around 70F/21C... So your wash is too cold for bakers yeast... The wash temperature drops throughout the fermentation cycle so you may need to add auxiliary heat in order to keep your wash fermenting along...
Lagtastic
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

A big thanks to you guys!

I'll surely try to heat things up a little the next time i use bakers yeast. From what i read, a lot of people seems to get good results with them for rhum. At the moment, i had better results with EC-1118 on other types of wash. I suspected that it was partly because of the temperature, as you pointed out to me.

Still_stirrin: it's really dry to the taste. I never thought it could mess up an SG reading that much...! 0_0


Ahyhow, it's all great advices! Thanks!
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FuelMaker
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by FuelMaker »

Something else might be going on: bakers yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) primarily ferments glucose but really can't handle fructose very well and there is an awful lot of fructose in molly to start with (10-12%) and when sucrose of broken down - either by inverting or by the yeast itself - it produces equal amounts of glucose and fructose so you end up with even more fructose than what you started with.

Try pitching a Brettanomyces strain like BSI-Drie (a brettanomyces bruxellensis varient), Wyeast 5112 and WLP650 are B bruxellensis strains too.


http://brettanomycesproject.com/dissert ... hing-rate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0329.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Lagtastic
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

FuelMaker: that's a really interesting topic! Thanks for the links, i'll look at them!

Wow. I knew learning to distill great products was going to be a lifetime ''work in progress'' but never i tought it was going to be THAT vast (? i'm french speaking, i feel like don't find the correct way to express what i'm trying to do here..anyway)

I'm so thanfull for this awesome community!
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by jb-texshine »

Antoinebegcou wrote: i'm french speaking
Never would have guess.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Saltbush Bill »

FuelMaker wrote:Something else might be going on: bakers yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) primarily ferments glucose but really can't handle fructose very well and there is an awful lot of fructose in molly to start with (10-12%) and when sucrose of broken down - either by inverting or by the yeast itself - it produces equal amounts of glucose and fructose so you end up with even more fructose than what you started with.
If this is the case ,maybe you can tell me why it is that hundreds if not thousands of hobby distillers world wide are using Bakers Yeast to very successfully ferment Molasses washes?
jb-texshine
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by jb-texshine »

Or why companies and labs that specialize in cultivating bakers yeast for profit do so on a growth substrate of molasses....
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Windy City
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Windy City »

I would be careful about using a Brett in my equipment unless it was glass or stainless that could be sanitized afterwards.
I have made a lot of rums and have spiced with many an item but Brett's wet horse blanket flavor has never came to mind nor would I ever try it.
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Lagtastic
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

Well, i'm sitting here eating popcorn reading your comments guys! Interesting arguments going on here! :)
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Windy City
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Windy City »

Check out the tried and true recipe for Pugi Rum.
Try the yeast bomb. I believe you will be very happy with it.
Also pick up a refractometer cause moly hates a hydrometer :D
The liver is evil and must be punished
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=52975
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HDNB
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by HDNB »

still waiting for you to post your spiced rum recipe, Windy. i'm pretty sure i can move it to tried and true and sticky it without riding too much heat. :wink: :ebiggrin:
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Have you run this wash yet, if so what did you get from it ? Was there the alcohol in it that there should have been ?
Windy City wrote:Also pick up a refractometer cause moly hates a hydrometer :D
See first post in thread Windy..he is already using a refractometer.
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Oldvine Zin
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Oldvine Zin »

At the winery that I work at we go through great sanitation protocols to prevent brett contamination and destroy anything that is infected with it. As far as I'm concerned brett has no place in my beverage (sorry to all the whacked out beer brewers who like it)

OVZ
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Windy City
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Windy City »

Windy City wrote:Also pick up a refractometer cause moly hates a hydrometer :D
See first post in thread Windy..he is already using a refractometer.[/quote]

Oops :oops: I missed that :oops:
The liver is evil and must be punished
Cranky"s spoon feeding for new and novice distillers
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Lagtastic
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

Saltbush Bill wrote:Have you run this wash yet, if so what did you get from it ? Was there the alcohol in it that there should have been ?
I'm going to run it tomorrow morning! I'm going to do a follow up on what i collect!
Lagtastic
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

Well, i'm currently running the wash and i now have a nice steady stream and my thermometer (it's calibrated and placed directly at the entrance of the condenser - i have a pot) indicate 91oC. I tried a calculator from the parent site and is it possible that I have a 12% wash...?

http://homedistiller.org/calcs/alcohol_content" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Am I right?
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cuginosgrizzo
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by cuginosgrizzo »

No, you are registering the temperature of the vapor. The temperature of the boiling wash is different (higher)
Lagtastic
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

oooooOOH! Should've known that! Thanks for pointing that out!

I felt 12% was out of the place.... LoL My guest is i'm around 6-7% max. Oh well.... we'll see once it's over!
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Re: Another stuck fermentation...

Post by Lagtastic »

Saltbush Bill wrote:Have you run this wash yet, if so what did you get from it ? Was there the alcohol in it that there should have been ?
I got 4,75 L from a 23L wash. Ran till I hit 20%.

Smells incredibly good, even if it's low wines...!! :shock:
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