Sodium Bisulphate to lower PH

[nelsongg]

Can Sodium Bisulphate be used to lower PH in mash water. I have a bunch of it I use in my pool and was thinking water is water and ph is ph.

thanks,
Greg

[StillerBoy]

I use backset, and when I don't have any backset I use citric acid, a small amount at a time, recheck.. I wouldn't use it because it is a sodium/salt base makeup and yeast are do not like a salty environment ..

Mars

[Pikey]

I think the word "Sulphate" is something we are very wary about in distilling. Much is made of using copper in the system to catch "Sulph.....s" - So I would say no keep it well clear.

Edit:

[der wo]

Yes, but for example ammonium sulfate is one of the most common ingredients of yeast nutrients or plant fertilizers. Yeast and plants need sulphur. And look on the high sulfur contents of grains. 1kg grains have 1g sulphur. The issues with sulphur are very complicated.
Yes, copper sulfate is poisonous. Nothing with copper or with sulphur is healthy in pure and concentrated form.

I don't know, if it is usable. My main question would be, how much it needs in practice. I think for lowering the pH in a pool, you need something strong or you have to buy a barrel every week. So if it is strong, you don't need much of it in a mash. And then the bad effects (if there are any) of sodium or sulphate are neglectable.


Edit: In big fruit distilleries the most common acid to lower the pH for mashes is sulphuric acid. They use 30-100ml (96%) for 100l must. This is much less and cheaper than if you use citric or lactic acid.

[Pikey]

Surprising what a little duck duck can pop up nowadays :-

"......Sodium bisulfate is also AAFCO approved as a general-use feed additive, including companion animal food. It is used as a urine acidifier to reduce urinary stones in cats.

It is highly toxic to at least some echinoderms, but fairly harmless to most other life forms; sodium bisulfate is used in controlling outbreaks of crown-of-thorns starfish....."

Wikipedia

Edit:

[nelsongg]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure which way I'm leaning on this. I might experiment using it on a cheap cornmeal mash and see what happens.

Thanks,
Greg

[FuelMaker]

How about phosphoric acid? I've read in several places that beer brewers use this cleaner to adjust their PH, and they can just pick it up from their local store.
Evidently a little goes a LONG way and the yeast like the additional phosphorous. I havent used it myself but have been meaning to.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Miracle-Seal ... /100672861" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow (assuming you're in the US)

[Pikey]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure which way I'm leaning on this. I might experiment using it on a cheap cornmeal mash and see what happens.

Thanks,
Greg

Yup I guess that's how I'd feel about it too

Thing is citric is basically lemon juice without the flavour, malic comes essentially from apples and backset comes frm our wash ingredients anyway. All of which we are confident is sort of "food based".

[RedwoodHillBilly]

How about phosphoric acid? I've read in several places that beer brewers use this cleaner to adjust their PH, and they can just pick it up from their local store.
Evidently a little goes a LONG way and the yeast like the additional phosphorous. I havent used it myself but have been meaning to.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Miracle-Seal ... /100672861" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow (assuming you're in the US)

Or get it from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KC74G2O" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cheaper, and you know what's in it. I use it as a rust remover, electrolyte for electro-polishing SS, as well as lowering Ph.

[Pikey]

I too have used it in the past - for cleaning set concrete off brickwork and tarmac.

[peteturbo]

I have just been playing with it to adjust my starsan pH levels. Its for the hot tub (the chemical, not the starsan).
It has an E number so it must be 'safe' - if you know the quantities and how to use it.
Its solution has a pH of 1. Considering it is such a low pH, it cant have much actual strength since LD50 Rat is 2800 mg/kg

But i am bloody careful how i use it. Minute amounts just to carefully adjust pH. I think it is too brutal in small quantities like 5 gallons. And i have pH 7.8 water.

pickling with it should be good. Sparex is 98% sodium sulphate.
https://www.krohnindustries.com/SDS-GHS/Sparex(r).pdf
Interestingly sparex no1 and sparex No 2 appear identical, but sold for different things. Must be industry perception?

[Stibnut]

In messing around with chemicals at home, I've found sodium bisulfate and phosphoric acid to be my favorite two acids. They're technically weak acids but are still pretty strong - strong enough to do a lot of stuff that sulfuric, hydrochloric, etc. will do, with much less safety risk or risk of property damage.

Of the two, the better one to use for yeast is phosphoric acid because sulfate has a nasty habit to get reduced to awful-smelling sulfides and organic sulfur compounds. I used sodium bisulfate in my first clumsy attempt to ferment sugar and miscalculated, bringing the pH down to 1.8. I brought it back up with carbonate and pitched more yeast, but they produced a whole bunch of bad sulfur smells with all that sulfate.

Used in the correct dose, bisulfate is probably fine, but phosphoric is better if you have to use a mineral acid. It also makes good buffer solutions for a whole range of pH values. But I've gravitated toward citric acid rather than either phosphoric or bisulfate - citrate has the same buffering properties but over a tighter and more useful pH range, and it's just as cheap.

[NZChris]

Phosphoric acid is ideal for adjusting pH in rum wash, so don't waste it. I wish I had some.