Easy Large Batch Mashing

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by HDNB » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:32 pm

jb-texshine wrote:Deletes post and kicks at rock in disappointment because he^^^ types faster... :oops:
sry...extra yappy tonite. :o :econfused: :shifty:
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by bluc » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:18 am

Awesome thread shineon. :clap: wondering has anyone use cracked corn and rice hulls along with malt and rye then sparged and have some numbers to share?

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by MichiganCornhusker » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:38 am

bluc wrote:...wondering has anyone use cracked corn and rice hulls along with malt and rye then sparged...
That would be in a different thread, perhaps search tedious and tiresome large batch mashing!
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Shine0n » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:55 pm

Bwahahaha Husker

SCD you the man!
I really need to get on the ball and mash something although I could run my 25 gallons of mead. lol

My problem is I have no temp control in my barn so I'm stuck with what I can do in the pump house atm which is 15-20 gal max but I'll get by until I build an insulated fermenter box, just sooo fn busy with work and I WON'T complain about that.

Good to see you expanding your horizons there SCD, I'm next. lol

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:25 pm

deleting doublepost....
Last edited by raketemensch on Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:38 pm

So, doing the "modern" method with enzymes for a 32-gallon brute with a bit of headspace seems to perfectly fit a 50lb bag of cracked corn. 26 gallons of water at 1.875lbs/gallon makes exactly 50lbs, and 26gallons + all the corn should fit perfectly into a 32-gallon Brute, and give me 2 full keg charges. Since I'm just one-running this through the flute, I don't need the 3rd charge for a spirit run, and I can squeeze out the grains for the second run (and stash some for future yeast) while the first run is going:

1) Put 5 gallons water/backset in freezer
2) Boil 11 gallons water
3) Pour over 25lbs corn
4) Add 1tbsp high-temp enzyme, stir, wrap
5) Boil 10 gallons water
6) Pour over next 25lbs corn
7) Add other tbsp high-temp enzyme and stir
8) Wrap well and wait overnight
9) When it hits 150 the next morning, add low-temp enzyme and stir
10) Wrap until temp is 135/140 (~3-5 hours?)
11) Dump in frozen water/backset
12) Hour later, at 90/100 degrees, pitch yeast

I've got a 16-gallon BOP with a spigot that I'm adding a CAMCO 5500watt element to this week. I've spent ages trying to figure out how to use the element in this BOP and avoid scorching, and this is the perfect solution -- it won't ever go near any corn! The only remaining PITA will be putting 50lbs of corn through the corona...

I've been very happy with my oaked UJ for years now. I made an AG a while back then a gumbalhead (oh yeah, I can gumball this too....), and stashed them for 18 months, without going near them. Like I said, I was happy with my UJ. Which is ideal, right, because sugarheads are easy?

I finally gave in and tasted it this morning (it's Jimbo's wheated bourbon recipe), and DAMMIT, I gotta start making AG all the time now. It got a good lacto infection going too, so it's just soooo sweet and tasty. The sweetness from the infection plus the vanilla and almond from the oak is just brutally good.

I'm not sure that any of this (except maybe the corn grinding) is any more difficult than melting down 30lbs of sugar for a UJ. It's just boiling water, right?
Last edited by raketemensch on Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by RedwoodHillBilly » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:47 pm

If you do large batches regularly, build or buy a hammer mill. You won't regret it. I bought this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010T7QGLK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow, not exactly cheap, but well worth it as I generally grind between 100 and 200 lbs at a time. (1 or 2 50 gal mashes). I just can't see running 3 bags of corn and a bag of malt through a corona.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:53 pm

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:If you do large batches regularly, build or buy a hammer mill. You won't regret it. I bought this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010T7QGLK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow, not exactly cheap, but well worth it as I generally grind between 100 and 200 lbs at a time. (1 or 2 50 gal mashes). I just can't see running 3 bags of corn and a bag of malt through a corona.
Looks like $250 is the price of entry, even for parts if you build your own, which looks to be pretty heavy-duty on the DIY scale.

Maybe in April for my birthday.... Thanks for the heads-up.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by The Baker » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:01 pm

Do you maybe have a farmer friend who uses a hammer mill?
Or a grain crusher (grister) ?
Or even has one sitting unused in the yard?

In my teens I worked with a cousin on his mixed farm (which are probably not that common now).
He ground his own grain for the pigs and cows, and we had porridge from crushed wheat for breakfast. Tasty.

Geoff
Last edited by The Baker on Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by RedwoodHillBilly » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:02 pm

raketemensch wrote:
RedwoodHillBilly wrote:If you do large batches regularly, build or buy a hammer mill. You won't regret it. I bought this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010T7QGLK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow, not exactly cheap, but well worth it as I generally grind between 100 and 200 lbs at a time. (1 or 2 50 gal mashes). I just can't see running 3 bags of corn and a bag of malt through a corona.
Looks like $250 is the price of entry, even for parts if you build your own, which looks to be pretty heavy-duty on the DIY scale.

Maybe in April for my birthday.... Thanks for the heads-up.
The other nice thing is that I actually run my corn through twice. 1st using the 5.0 mm screen, then using the 1.5 mm screen. This gives me a very slightly gritty corn flour. My malts, just once through the 1.5mm screen. This grind along with liquid enzymes and hitting the right temps and ph I believe is the major contributor to my getting 91% - 93% brewhouse efficiencies.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by BayouShine » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:09 pm

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:This grind along with liquid enzymes and hitting the right temps and ph I believe is the major contributor to my getting 91% - 93% brewhouse efficiencies.
^^^If that ain't the troof! :thumbup:


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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:04 pm

BayouShine wrote:
RedwoodHillBilly wrote:This grind along with liquid enzymes and hitting the right temps and ph I believe is the major contributor to my getting 91% - 93% brewhouse efficiencies.
^^^If that ain't the troof! :thumbup:
GOSPEL , Brudder . Grind it fine and cook it well . The still will tell you that you did it well .
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:05 pm

The Baker wrote:Do you maybe have a farmer friend who uses a hammer mill?
Or a grain crusher (grister) ?
Or even has one sitting unused in the yard?

In my teens I worked with a cousin on his mixed farm (which are probably not that common now).
He ground his own grain for the pigs and cows, and we had porridge from crushed wheat for breakfast. Tasty.

Geoff
My dad was a farmer well into his 50s, and knew every farmer in a 50-mile radius, but we were estranged for ~25 years, and he has sold off all of his equipment. What I wouldn't give for a few of those stainless milk cans... He has Parkinson's now, which is starting to affect his thought processes, so we mostly just reminisce about the old days. As a younger man he'd've been one hell of a resource for this hobby.

I could ask around in a couple of online groups to see if I can find someone who wouldn't mind renting their equipment out for an hour or so, that's a pretty good idea.

I was also looking into registering a business so I'd have a license to hit up one of the local restaurant depots for 50lb bags of corn meal (and 5gallon buckets of molasses), but it's $120 to register a business. That's still half the price of buying a mill, and it'd be 50lb bags of already-ground corn for $20...

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by RedwoodHillBilly » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:13 pm

If they sell corn flour it would be even better. Are you hooked up with any other local hobbyists? A group buy might work out, as you don't need it that much, but when you do, you really need it. JellybeanCorncob came over a while back to run some rice in my hammer mill, I think that he was pleased with the results.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by zapata » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:04 am

Raketemensch, do you really need a registered business? My state requires a federal EIN, and a state sales tax account number, both of which can be gotten by just saying you are a sole proprietor (aren't we all, even if we are unemployed sole proprietors?). If you have to talk to anybody just tell them you are starting a business and want to get all the tax stuff settled before you get too busy with the actual business. It's been a while but I think that was it to get an exemption number or form or
Something you can provide to the wholesalers. Might not cost you a penny.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:52 pm

zapata wrote:Raketemensch, do you really need a registered business? My state requires a federal EIN, and a state sales tax account number, both of which can be gotten by just saying you are a sole proprietor (aren't we all, even if we are unemployed sole proprietors?). If you have to talk to anybody just tell them you are starting a business and want to get all the tax stuff settled before you get too busy with the actual business. It's been a while but I think that was it to get an exemption number or form or
Something you can provide to the wholesalers. Might not cost you a penny.
Well, I sorta don't have a business. I've done side work on websites and whatnot, and a I run a small recording studio, so I think I could try to register either of those endeavors, but I'm not sure what the cheapest way to do that would be.

It looks like I could use my SSN as an EIN:

https://www.irs.gov/faqs/small-business ... mber-ein-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

So much weirdness around this.

I did find a mill around an hour from my house the does corn meal and flour, but 500# is the minimum order. Then again, that's only 10 batches...

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by RedwoodHillBilly » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:17 pm

raketemensch wrote: I did find a mill around an hour from my house the does corn meal and flour, but 500# is the minimum order. Then again, that's only 10 batches...
500# is just about about right for a 15 gal barrel, with a bit of white to spare.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:25 pm

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:
raketemensch wrote: I did find a mill around an hour from my house the does corn meal and flour, but 500# is the minimum order. Then again, that's only 10 batches...
500# is just about about right for a 15 gal barrel, with a bit of white to spare.
Gonna need to get me a serious dolly for hauling that barrel around... Or I guess I could just get a garbage can on wheels.

I just got a price of $75-80, which seems insanely low, so I'm waiting to verify if that is for 500lbs.
Last edited by raketemensch on Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by RedwoodHillBilly » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:29 pm

15 Gal is smaller than you might think. My Gibbs barrels are 23" x 15"
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by zapata » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:15 pm

My state won't let me use a SSN as an EIN for this purpose. Not sure I'd want to anyway, that number ends up on whatever documents you give to the wholesalers, no need for them to have my SSN. You can apply for the EIN online though.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... ein-online" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Twisted Brick » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:06 pm

raketemensch wrote:
My dad was a farmer well into his 50s. As a younger man he'd've been one hell of a resource for this hobby.
I hear ya Raketemensch. My Dad was a career toolmaker for Rohr Industries, which at one time was the largest subcontractor to the US aerospace industry. He could literally machine, weld and fabricate anything metal, and had an arsenal of machines, including a Bridgeport mill in his second garage, which he utilized to build secret prototypes of the original QUAD4 head, for my step-brother who designed, patented, and sold it to Oldsmobile, for untold millionS.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:02 am

Well, all we can do about it now is share the hobby with our kids, right?

Meanwhile, I've confirmed that it's only $75 for 500lbs of "fine ground corn meal," somewhere between meal and flour -- so half the price of cracked corn at tractor supply, already ground!

Gonna go load up this weekend. Guess I'd better get those enzymes ordered.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Scrubby » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:39 am

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:So I've fought this winter to keep temps where I liked them. I got an aquarium heater, and after scorching the first one, i got a low density one, and it did Ok. I had to choose between cooking the bed and keeping the top warm. I made it work, but it wasn't perfect. It basically was inconsistent throughout, and had hot spots. I looked into the 55 gallon barrel heating bands, but whew. That's a Christmas gift in itself.

Lucky, I have been thinking about how to more quickly cool my mash for pitching, and threw a wort chiller together. Then it occurred to me. Use the damn wort chiller as a herms system of sorts, as well. :thumbup:

Meet my new tool. Wort chiller, ferment heater, and mash preheater (on cook day) all in one. This set up keeps my ferment just over 92, or whatever I set it to, and adds some copper to the fermenter. A secondary benefit.
img20170324_232909.jpg
img20170331_204000.jpg
img20170331_204032.jpg
img20170331_204059.jpg
img20170331_204120.jpg
img20170331_204151.jpg

This is awesome. I live in Maine and I'm having a heck of a time keeping my mash at a constant temp in the basement.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:09 pm

I can't get too excited until I take my OG reading tomorrow, but so far I'm pumped about this process. It's barely more work than melting down 30lbs of sugar for a UJ, and the results will be SO much better. I'm doing all corn this time around, even though I've got 25lbs of rolled oats, 25lbs of 6-row and 25lbs of pearled barley. I figured that this early in the learning curve I'd keep it as simple as possible, plus I want all-corn to taste against the other recipes.

All bundled up and waiting for low-temp enzymes, under the pot that boiled everything:
IMG_0424.jpg
It looks so cozy in there, I'm a little bit jealous.
Last edited by raketemensch on Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by RedwoodHillBilly » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:47 pm

raketemensch wrote:I can't get too excited until I take my OG reading tomorrow, but so far I'm pumped about this process. It's barely more work than melting down 30lbs of sugar for a UJ, and the results will be SO much better. I'm doing all corn this time around, even though I've got 25lbs of rolled oats, 25lbs of 6-row and 25lbs of pearled barley. I figured that this early in the learning curve I'd keep it as simple as possible, plus I want all-corn to taste against the other recipes.

All bundled up and waiting for low-temp enzymes, under the pot that boiled everything:
IMG_0424.jpg
Right on brother. FWIW, I find that a little bit of malt (of whatever you have laying around) enhances an all corn shine. Especially a sweet mash that's cut for white.
John Barleycorn must die.
"and little Sir John in the nut brown bowl proved the strongest man at last.
The huntsman he can't hunt the fox, nor so loudly to blow his horn
and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:22 am

So, yeah.... I decided to try a cheaper barrel than the brute after I bought a few to store the corn flour.

Woke up this morning to find all of my fresh mash on the cellar floor. It wasn't dripping at all when I went to bed, at some point overnight the sucker just let go.

Off to buy a brute now.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:16 am

:esurprised:
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Kegg_jam » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm

Ouch!

My condolences.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by raketemensch » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:18 pm

Well, I definitely got some sugars out of the corn, because the floor is sticky as hell... :roll: Never even got to the low-temp enzymes.

The good news is that I got everything set up for this second batch (once I'd wrapped the hell out of the new barrel), and it took less than 90 minutes to get everything done and wrapped up for its overnight rest, and 60 of those minutes were just waiting for water to boil (and watching MST3K). Less than two hours to 30 gallons of AG? Hell yes.

This method is great. Having that BOP with an element in it is the most useful thing I've done so far.

The other can had a sort of perforation molded into it at the bottom, and it just let go from all the weight. So sad, but at least it happened before I pitched. It turns out that I didn't have much yeast in the house, only 4tbsp, so I've got it in some Fermax and wort overnight hoping to multiply it as much as I can before pitching.

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