Easy Large Batch Mashing

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Hoosier Shine9 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:06 am

Thought I would bump this.
it has been about 6 months since last post.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by MtRainier » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:38 am

SCD, early on you posted pics of the mop wringer you use over a second barrel to squeeze out the grain post ferment after removing the clear liquid from the top.

Is that how you still do it? What do you do with the cloudy liquid full of fines and yeast that comes out of the wringer? Do you settle it out somehow before running?

I think you have electric heat inside the boiler, which is what I also have and I think some of my off flavors are coming from solids in the wash scorching a bit if it isn’t completely clear.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:10 am

That is exactly how I still do it.

Well, I try to give it at least a day or so to settle, the longer the clearer. But I have been known to run the next morning. I always account for a little sludge lost on the bottom, but your going to get some cloudy mash in the boiler. I just try to spread the mucky half evenly over all three strips. That way I don't get 2 crystal clear strips and one really murky one.

I'll be willing to bet you aren't scorching. A little scorch is like being a little pregnant. There's no such thing. When you scorch you damn know it. Black smoke comes out your pipe, the element looks like a black turd that needs to be scraped with a knife, and even 18 years later (much like being pregnant), the distillate still won't taste right. You scorch, it ain't a little off. It's gone.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by MtRainier » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:23 am

Thanks. I haven’t gotten used to doing a bunch of handling and oxygenating of fermented liquid and then letting it sit around, coming from beer brewing. Hard to get used to the idea that a little bit of infection is good for flavor.

Also, I had assumed that the rubbery flavor that I think is tails that starts showing up around halfway through my runs was scorching of yeast or something, but maybe it’s something else. I have been trying to run really clear washes lately to see if it goes away. Being more patient with the molasses and sugar ferments and more careful wcoming th the siphon to try to keep the yeast out.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:44 pm

MtRainier wrote:SCD, early on you posted pics of the mop wringer you use over a second barrel to squeeze out the grain post ferment after removing the clear liquid from the top.

Is that how you still do it? What do you do with the cloudy liquid full of fines and yeast that comes out of the wringer? Do you settle it out somehow before running?

I think you have electric heat inside the boiler, which is what I also have and I think some of my off flavors are coming from solids in the wash scorching a bit if it isn’t completely clear.
Not SCD , but I have a different approach :
I run a 15.5 boiler and 15.5 thumper pot still .
Rack the clear which usually makes 12.5 gallons for the boiler . Squeeze the remainder and load 12.5 gallons in the thumper cloudy . That gets steam distilled and can't scorch .
Strip run that hard and dirty .
Spirit run what I collect from that .
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Beerswimmer » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:38 pm

That doesn't overflow the thumper? Hell that would nearly double my production....or nearly cut the time in half!!
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:49 pm

Beerswimmer wrote:That doesn't overflow the thumper? Hell that would nearly double my production....or nearly cut the time in half!!
Yes , Sir , on double production and cutting time .
I gradually worked my way up to the volumes I post that I post as my limits .
A 6 quart gain in the thumper is the max I have experienced since I started this regimen .
Never had a puke or a problem and the peer group here declare my likker fit to drink .
I would not advocate something that was unsafe or prone to failure .
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Beerswimmer » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:53 pm

Thanks! :thumbup:
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by OtisT » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:39 am

Truckinbutch wrote: I have a different approach :
I run a 15.5 boiler and 15.5 thumper pot still .
Rack the clear which usually makes 12.5 gallons for the boiler . Squeeze the remainder and load 12.5 gallons in the thumper cloudy . That gets steam distilled and can't scorch .
Strip run that hard and dirty .
Spirit run what I collect from that .
I’m sold TB. Your process is perfect to suite my needs. It matches my typical batch size and addresses my desire not to wait for all of my squeezed ferment to settle for a second strip. :thumbup: Thanks.

My typical batch size starts with a 36 gallon ferment to produce roughly 2+ gal of finished product to fill my 2 gallon badmo style barrels. I’m setting my 7.5 gallon thumper aside and rigging one of my old 15.5 G boilers as a Thumper.

I’m starting a batch of HBB w/toasted oats today, and will get to use your process for the first time an about a week. I’m looking forward to it. :D Otis

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:48 pm

Luck to you , Otis T .
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:29 pm

With winter upon us, I wanted to update this thread on fermentation temperature control. At the very end of last winter, I gave a little different set up a try, for one ferment. It was a resounding success, and I am doing it as my new set up for this season. I know there are a few members doing it this way, but I get emails about temp control, so I wanted to show what I do.

First, I still use my heater and pump. But now I am using my 55 gallon barrel as a water bath for my 32 gallon Brut. I give up a little volume, but I have ferments finish twice ar fast. I also just do my rum and sugar washes in the winter now, and my full 55 gallon whiskey all the summer. It's a really good schedule.

The water bath...30 gallons is perfect for dispersment level of the 32 brut.
20181130_133449.jpg
The brute empty floats
20181130_133622.jpg
When it's full, it sits perfect in the barrel
20181130_110236.jpg
And of course the oyster sack that hangs mid way.
20181130_110330.jpg
I have been running ay 92 degrees in the freezing garage. The temp doesn't move more than 1/2 degree. Ever.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by warp1 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:14 pm

Well...gonna give it a go. Been doing 24 gallon mashes...but always come up 1 keg charge stripping run short of a spirit run. Jumping to 36-40 gal....80-100# grain.

Ever since I bought that grain mill....conversion has been so much better. Not quite as easy to strain as cracked corn, but my second attempt went much better. 1st mash was basically all corn, 2nd was 50% corn/50% oats. I wanted to see how much smoother the oats made it. But I think I'm just going to take all 4 strip runs (both batches) and run them together for the spirit run....if they'll fit.

For my large mash...going 75% corn, 25% oats (75# + 20#) and we'll see how it goes.

Nice thread

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Fruit Squeezer » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:52 pm

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
speedfreaksteve wrote:Just wanted to throw in a couple extra questions for SCD:

Is there any reason that you don't put the corn in before you start filling your vessel?

How is your conversion rate using this method?
Hey speed.

So, there is only one real reason I don't add corn prior. I use corn meal, and adding water to it causes clumps. When I do it, while water is dumping, I sort of add some, stir, add some, stir. Helps make it more consistent. There is no reason really other than that. And, cracked corn doesn't have that much of a probem.
SCD,
I run a cornmeal recipie as well.
Find a way in your process to add the cornmeal to COLD water. It doesn't clump at all.
Then add strike water.
I mix 1 gal cold water to 4lbs corn meal.
Mixes in under a minute with NO CLUMPS.
(Like making gravy).

Try it in a small batch, and you'll be convinced.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by OtisT » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:10 am

OtisT wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote: I have a different approach :
I run a 15.5 boiler and 15.5 thumper pot still .
Rack the clear which usually makes 12.5 gallons for the boiler . Squeeze the remainder and load 12.5 gallons in the thumper cloudy . That gets steam distilled and can't scorch .
Strip run that hard and dirty .
Spirit run what I collect from that .
I’m sold TB. Your process is perfect to suite my needs. It matches my typical batch size and addresses my desire not to wait for all of my squeezed ferment to settle for a second strip. :thumbup: Thanks.

My typical batch size starts with a 36 gallon ferment to produce roughly 2+ gal of finished product to fill my 2 gallon badmo style barrels. I’m setting my 7.5 gallon thumper aside and rigging one of my old 15.5 G boilers as a Thumper.

I’m starting a batch of HBB w/toasted oats today, and will get to use your process for the first time an about a week. I’m looking forward to it. :D Otis

Otis
TB. Another question for ya on this process? How full does the thumper get before it starts producing? I’m wondering about this with only 3 gallons of free space, and 12.5 gallons of cool wash to steam heat up. It must get damn full before it reaches around 170F. Do you by chance need to pre-heat the charge in your thumper? And is your thumper insulated?

Thanks. Just trying to avoid issues. Otis
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Fruit Squeezer » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:49 pm

bilgriss wrote: I think we should take a poll on how many members' significant other would let them wrap up a 50 gallon ferment in their living room.
That's a negative, Ghost rider.
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Command says the yeast smells bad.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:23 pm

OtisT wrote:
OtisT wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote: I have a different approach :
I run a 15.5 boiler and 15.5 thumper pot still .
Rack the clear which usually makes 12.5 gallons for the boiler . Squeeze the remainder and load 12.5 gallons in the thumper cloudy . That gets steam distilled and can't scorch .
Strip run that hard and dirty .
Spirit run what I collect from that .
I’m sold TB. Your process is perfect to suite my needs. It matches my typical batch size and addresses my desire not to wait for all of my squeezed ferment to settle for a second strip. :thumbup: Thanks.

My typical batch size starts with a 36 gallon ferment to produce roughly 2+ gal of finished product to fill my 2 gallon badmo style barrels. I’m setting my 7.5 gallon thumper aside and rigging one of my old 15.5 G boilers as a Thumper.

I’m starting a batch of HBB w/toasted oats today, and will get to use your process for the first time an about a week. I’m looking forward to it. :D Otis

Otis
TB. Another question for ya on this process? How full does the thumper get before it starts producing? I’m wondering about this with only 3 gallons of free space, and 12.5 gallons of cool wash to steam heat up. It must get damn full before it reaches around 170F. Do you by chance need to pre-heat the charge in your thumper? And is your thumper insulated?

Thanks. Just trying to avoid issues. Otis
I've never measured during the run to find an answer to your question .
I started with a 3 gallon thumper charge . Measured remaining volumes in boiler , thumper , and collection vessel . Kept adding to thumper until I hit that 12.5 mark that I got comfortable with . I never experienced more than a 6 quart increase in final thumper volume and never had a puke .
Shortly after your thumper starts 'Making music' you are going to begin getting alcohol flow . The entire charge does not have to be up to temp to begin getting alcohol extraction .
I have a sheet steel heat shroud around my boiler nested in a wheel rim support on a BC propane burner and one wrap of insulation around the thumper .
I do no thumper preheating .
Hope that covered your questions . If not , I'm open for more .
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by OtisT » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:05 pm

Truckinbutch wrote:Hope that covered your questions . If not , I'm open for more .
Thank you sir. :D Otis
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Beerswimmer » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:38 am

TB, how long did the 2 x 12.5 gallon strips take you?
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:59 pm

Beerswimmer wrote:TB, how long did the 2 x 12.5 gallon strips take you?
I use a 60k Bayou Classic propane burner . Thumper starts making music at about 51 minutes and drips start 8-10 minutes later . 2 1/2 hours later I am usually down to 20% and shut down .
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Beerswimmer » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:49 pm

:thumbup:
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by OtisT » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:08 am

Truckinbutch and beerswimmer, I just completed my first successful 12.5x12.5 strip of a bourbon wash. TB, thanks for the encouragement to try this. I think this will now be part of my standard strip process. Beerswimmer, I’m electric so my times for the run were different that what TB reported. Here are my observations:

I had a bit more beer to process so my run was actually 14g (clear beer) in the boiler and 12.5g (fresh squeezins) in the thumper. The beer was 9.5% abv. I knew this would be foamy so I heated the boiler charge to 190f the night before I did the run to at least keep that first charge from foaming during the run. Should also help produce more esters. I could not pre-heat the thumper charge and I did not use any deforming agents, so It was puking for the first half of the run.

It took about 40 minutes at 5000w before my boiler was first boiling/bubbling in the thumper. I dropped power to 4000 watts and it took another 1:30 for my thumper charge to reach a boil. I really need to insulate the thumper next time, which i am sure would reduce the warmup time. I believe my headspace in the thumper was less than one gallon by the time I began collecting. I was producing pure water vapor (212f vapor) out of the boiler before half my collection was done.

The first half of my collection (3 gallons) was cloudy from puking. I increased heat to 5000w at the halfway point but I started seeing puke again so I backed it back down to 4000w for the remaininder of the run.

I cut things off a bit earlier than normal, when my collection ABV was down to 11%. (I typically go down to 5 on a strip.) That gave me a bit over 6 gallons at an average ABV of 39%. I often go down to about 5 for a strip. With some of the beer being distilled twice, the ABV of my low wines with this process is higher than normal. 30% typical, 39% for this run.

At the end I was left with ~7 gallons of backset in the boiler, ~12.5 gallons in the thumper, and 6 gallons of low wines. The backset from this should be nice and concentrated considering I boiled all of the alcohol and 4 gallons of water out of it with this strip.

Overall I really appreciate only one strip even if it take longer than one strip.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Beerswimmer » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:45 am

Nice!! I can't wait to get my build finished.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Beerswimmer » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:58 pm

I just made a small trial, 15 gallons, of this to see what the process is like and to see what my OG will be. Pretty easy and straightforward so far.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:16 pm

Beerswimmer wrote:I just made a small trial, 15 gallons, of this to see what the process is like and to see what my OG will be. Pretty easy and straightforward so far.
:thumbup:

When you're making 50 gallon ferments, you're putting up stock. And I find I make better liquor, becuase I'm not stretching the cuts to hit a volume. :clap:
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:45 pm

OtisT: Puking is why I limited my charges to 12.5/12,5 . I push hard to get the first drips and then regulate heat and water flow to what my gut and taste tell me the run is doing .
Congrats on a first run success . It will only get better .
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Twisted Brick » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:28 pm

OtisT wrote: With some of the beer being distilled twice, the ABV of my low wines with this process is higher than normal. 30% typical, 39% for this run.
No doubt this would have been a tad lower than 39% had you stripped down to your normal 5%. Do you anticipate any change in taste of the final distillate? Do you anticipate it being cleaner or lighter to any degree?
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by OtisT » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:52 pm

Twisted Brick wrote:
OtisT wrote: With some of the beer being distilled twice, the ABV of my low wines with this process is higher than normal. 30% typical, 39% for this run.
No doubt this would have been a tad lower than 39% had you stripped down to your normal 5%. Do you anticipate any change in taste of the final distillate? Do you anticipate it being cleaner or lighter to any degree?
I’m not expecting much in the way of taste changes due to the process change. I’m excited about this new process because I just shortened my batch protocol by two strips by going from three strips and a spirit run to one strip and one spirit run. With my standard ferment size I may have up to two more gallons than I can strip at once, but I like putting some clear beer in my spirit run charge so this is perfect.

FYI, I am expecting some “different” taste with this batch, but not because of the process change. This batch I happen to have used some insanely strong infected backset, and the low wines are quite fruity. After Christmas I’ll do the spirit run and see how this all turns out. Otis
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Beerswimmer » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:43 am

This morning I cooled it to 102F(was still 133-ish) and pitched Red Star yeast. It was 1.055 with Tractor Supply cracked corn that I didn't grind down farther. Lots of whole pieces, barely cracked at all really. The malts I milled with my mill set how I like it for beer brewing, pretty fine.

25lbs cracked corn
6lbs malted rye -milled by me
5lbs pale ale malt -milled by me


Excellent and easy process, no pots or grains were burned :clap:

I'll be finishing my thumper setup shortly, still on the lookout for some used 55 gallon barrels. 2 for fermenters, one for cooling water.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:15 pm

Glad it worked out for you beer swimmer. It really is the easiest way to make alot of mash :thumbup: .

Im getting ready to throw down a bunch of rum to fill a barrel, and then hit AG hard in the spring.

Good luck to you!
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by dcpac » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:44 am

My living room, my wife only gets mad when I rack/scoop and squeeze into buckets to let clear :D
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